aj_rock Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Looking to take it sometime in the next half year or so.Anyone in/done an MBA that can point me in the right direction? Prep? Costs? Best schools to apply to? Quote Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log! Link to comment
ETFnerd Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 What are your interests? the best school depends on what you want to do in your career...?i scored 700. i went to barnes & noble (or go to any large bookstore) and bought all the GMAT prep books they had on the shelves. i think i got 23 or so. maybe $300 back then. i read every one and worked out every question. there is a real gmat test questions book and software. I worked each of those questions twice. this was in 1997 so things may have changed. i took the computerized test the first year it was offered. ran out of time at the end when the toughest questions come out. i was scoring 780 consistently on the sample tests but choked at the end of the real one... sigh... but i don't think that kept me from being admitted to any school i applied for...no prep class for moi... Quote i don't care what u think of me. unless u think i'm awesome. in which case u're right. Intro - Workout Log - ABS Log - Fitness Philosophy - Accountability - NERDEE - Weight Maintenance Link to comment
aj_rock Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Was the scoring the same? I understand that it's out of 800, and 700 is a pretty damn good score. I need at least a 650 for the program at my current school, but obviously I want to get the best program I can.I don't think that paying for prep specifically will help; doing practice tests and everything but the grammar stuff is a joke. Like, what portions did you find yourself losing the most marks on? Which ones consumed the most time? Which ones did you find extra preparedness was needed? Quote Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log! Link to comment
ETFnerd Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 it doesn't matter what the topic is. once you get enough volume of practice, you get a feel for what the right answer is, because you understand how the test is designed, and what the common ways to trap you to mark the wrong answer are. from what i remember, there are three parts to the exam, the first part is easy and straightforward, the middle part is mixed in that the easy answer may or may not be right, and in the last third, the straightforward answer is never the correct answer. there aren't that many choices, and after a lot of practice runs, the correct answer almost jumps out of the page at you. if you took the SAT, it's the same deal.on the GMAT, there is a penalty if you miss a question early because missing an easy question immediately caps your score to a low number... i sort of ran out of time for not working quickly enough on some of the questions in the end... from what i can tell it's the same adaptive format... i'd guess i got 22-23 questions right and missed the 23rd or 24th one wasting too much time on these...if you've never taken a test like this, you may not understand what i'm talking about, but 200-300hours of studying later, you'll see what i mean...or maybe you're a lot smarter than me and don't need to study... that can certainly be the case too... you may think it's a joke, but if you don't practice the tempo at which you need to get these things answered correctly, you'd be missing an important component of what it takes to do this successfully. this is not a test of knowledge, but a test of learning how to score well on this test. Quote i don't care what u think of me. unless u think i'm awesome. in which case u're right. Intro - Workout Log - ABS Log - Fitness Philosophy - Accountability - NERDEE - Weight Maintenance Link to comment
Marlowe Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I just bought a book or two and took a few practice tests, and that worked for me. The problem though, is that the norm nowadays most people are taking prep classes and studying a lot; so, if you don't do likewise you're at a relative competitive disadvantage. Part of it depends upon how best you learn.... if you get the most out of lectures, take a class. If you're a self-studier, buy a few books or sign up for one of the online prep sites. But, if you're committing to investing X months out of your life to go to grad school, the bottom line is that you should also devote a lot of time and energy studying for the GMAT, researching programs, and applying to the skoolz you are most interested in. Bon chance... Quote Link to comment
Gar Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Opinions differ about how important your GMAT score is. The way I see it, prep like a motorscooter, but you can do it yourself. If you get a score you are not happy with, you can take it again, but in my experience (took it twice) it doesn't really up your score that much - I went from a 650 to 670. And the second time I took it I was hella prepared. I did not take a review/bootcamp, but used Princeton Review test prep materials and will recommend them. In your preparation, make sure you look at the tips and strategies as much as the content, and try to understand how the tests are scored. When you take the test Pour it on in the beginning, because even if you burn yourself out, if I remember right the first few questions on the math section have a greater weight.As for MBA programs, I can recommend the Katz Graduate School of the U of Pittsburgh (from my own experience) as well as the Tepper School of Business at Carnegie Mellon University, which is a top-ranked program (recommended based on the experience of friends, co-workers and relatives). The Tepper program is INTENSELY quantitative, from what I understand, which really does differentiate it. I did not get accepted to that one but I was happy where I ended up, having done my undergrad at Pitt, and the fact that they made it worth my while with some financial assistance in the form of a scholarship. I also developed great relationships while I was there.There are a whole bunch of schools out there that are AACSB accredited so it really depends on what you want, which part of the country you want to study, and how much you are willing to pay/go into debt for. :-) My best advice to you is to go in with very clear goals, at least one of which should be to broaden your professional and personal network significantly, because that's what will get you a job after graduation.Hope that helps! Quote Link to comment
aj_rock Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 See that's the thing; I've heard that you both can and can't study for this test. Aside from the grammar nit-picking, it seems to be fairly straight forward. The cap based on messing up early is new to me though.I'm also planning on taking the MBA as soon as I finish undergrad, so it has to be a school with a program designed for that. Not sure if that changes anyone's school advice Thanks for the responses so far though guys! Means a lot Quote Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log! Link to comment
ETFnerd Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 some people do their mba right after college, but that's not an optimal path... i think you have to be more specific in your goals, and most highly competitive applicants have more sharply defined goals...for example if you want to do private equity, I'd go to sloan... if you want to do VC go to stanford, if you want to work on wall street you want to go to wharton, but you also want a bulge bracket analyst position under your belt, if you want to do management consulting go to harvard... etc...it's not only the school, its curriculum and teachers, it is also the alumni network, the connections that you will be forging, the internship opportunities, and if you're really ambitious, you will have your 5/10 year plan mapped out and are currently talking with someone about your job out of school. that means that you've identified who your future employer is going to be, who you'll be working for, what they're looking for, and what they are likely to need. it is competitive and the top people don't putz around, they know what they want and have the look of having been groomed since an early age to do what they are going to do. if you want the best jobs and opportunities, it's an all-in type of environment. just like there are people who knew since birth and have been groomed since then to be doctors or lawyers, there are those who have been bred to be in certain areas of finance, mainly because they have a family member or more likely parent who is highly successful in the field.Take Mitt Romney for example... he is a great illustration of this. You can try to compete with a lack of focus, but you likely won't succeed in the higher echelons... Quote i don't care what u think of me. unless u think i'm awesome. in which case u're right. Intro - Workout Log - ABS Log - Fitness Philosophy - Accountability - NERDEE - Weight Maintenance Link to comment
ETFnerd Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 See that's the thing; I've heard that you both can and can't study for this test.complete bullsh!t that you can't study for this... if you study you will improve unless you have +5sd IQ in which case you don't need to study at all...what do you want? can't really go very far without answering this question, and if you are asking yourself this now you are really far behind the top 5% of applicants and may benefit from working for a few years until you can really answer this question...also, if you go into an mba program thinking that getting better grades than your peers is going to punch your ticket, that's a big mistake. Getting all A's is expected, and most schools inflate their grades anyway... mba courses aren't rocket science... what you have to keep in the forefront of your mind is that grades are only a baseline requirement. you have to develop a professional profile that gives someone confidence that you can be given the reins of a multimillion or multibillion $ business and that you won't f*ck it up. You can either do it or not in the employer's mind... and you will be judged at a glance... it's up to you to figure out how to do that and you won't find the answer in a book... Quote i don't care what u think of me. unless u think i'm awesome. in which case u're right. Intro - Workout Log - ABS Log - Fitness Philosophy - Accountability - NERDEE - Weight Maintenance Link to comment
ZenGwen Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 While I'm hesitant to do anything which would involve Mitt Romney as an example... *shudder* (Actually as Republicans go, I thought Mitt Romney was pretty awesome until he started going radical right for the Presidency.)I'm planning to do my GMAT soon as well. Well - I'm doing my GRE, GMAT, and LSAT (that's just how it works in my family, sigh) but the GMAT is the one I'm really concerned about. GRE is coming up next month and I think it's good practice, especially as it's been a while since I did much math! Then I'll do the GMAT after this one. I've picked up a general GMAT book, and a specific one each for the Math and Verbal, and I'm planning on doing an online prep course. Then I'll see how I'm feeling from there. The nice thing about the GMAT is that it seems to run pretty much every other day near me, whereas I've had to schedule the GRE very carefully as being an American test it only runs rarely here in the UK. So if I study first and then decide I need to do more, it's fine, I don't need to schedule too far in advance.I agree that it's a good idea to get some work experience. From what I can tell most good MBA programs really look at your work experience as well as your scores. Personally, I'm just doing all my testing now while I'm still in an academic mindset - the scores lock in for five years, and I have two more years on my work visa. So right now I'm working at a small software house providing custom CRM systems, getting a ton of good experience, starting up a charity based on an ambitious tech system, and planning for a startup. I'll do my MBA when I've gotten that experience already. I'll get into a better program, I'll bring more to it, and I'll get more out of it.Or I guess go to law school if I do really well on the LSAT! Taking it on whim really, but I think that career path could be very rewarding, and I also think I could do well on the test. (Plus it's one thing that an undergrad Philosophy degree is pretty traditional for. Business school and tech startups? Less so.) Keep my options open. Quote Pain is the feeling of weakness leaving the body. Blog | Pinterest | Fitocracy Link to comment
aj_rock Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 You're right ETF; some more background is probably called for.I'm taking Mechanical Engineering in Toronto right now, but I have one more year after I finish a 16 month work placement. While here, I've decided that pure engineering work isn't really what I've been aiming for, and through class exposure n what not, I've decided I really want to get into more business oriented things. I've also discovered that I find human biology (like what we discuss here) intensely fascinating. The problem is that, while I'm working through a minor in bio engineering, I don't quite have the marks to go into a masters degree in bio, and I reaaaally don't want to do med school. So the pure bio path is kinda closed.Meanwhile, my school offers something called the Skoll Program, a B.asc MBA combination for engineering students interested in doing business/management. From what I've gathered, tradition MBA paths for engineers is basically a crapshoot on whether you get through; in order to have a workplace sponsor you to do an MBA, they need to have a position open, desire to have you do management, etc. that's all rather hard to do, especially if you work at a place that has a crapload of engineers. It makes sense to distinguish yourself early so that I can avoid the 5-6 years spent working, all the while the odds of me going back to school slowly fading away, as LIFE settles in.It's not management I want per say; it's the leadership. It's directing people to shape MY visions, and I'll go the entreprenurial route if I have to. I'm also working throuogh a PT certificate and I'm seriously looking at setting up my own business in the field. I want to do this, and I feel my soft skill set is perfect for it.So right now, the only school I'm aware of that will offer the MBA right away is mine. But I want to look at other schools that will give me a similar opportunity. I'll have 16 months of work under my belt, albeit not strongly business related, but I do have some management experience through volunteering and such. My marks, coming from engineering, are acceptable where they are (not stellar, but acceptable), and hence my focus on the GMAT. A score of 650 is req'd for my school, but again that's only one.So yeah, my plans are only really laid out for the next 2 years... However as I get into developing my own side business and what not, I'll be in a better spot to evaluate what my real long-term goals are. But I strongly feel that an MBA will be part of them. Quote Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log! Link to comment
ETFnerd Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 That's really helpful. I think the obvious choice for you is to go to Sloan at MIT. You have marks, you don't have marks... i don't give a sh!t... make a plan if that's what you want and make it happen... no excuses, no one wants to hear any...MIT is at the hub of biotech at all stages of development. If you want to go into that field, there is no other place in the World where you will be better positioned. Not only is there a top engineering school, top minds, the top medical/biological research labs are in the area too. The money and asset managers funding all of the ventures are in Boston. When you have your venture ready to start, the people, skillsets, capital, knowledge, research, etc are all there. There may be other minor hubs elsewhere, but this is where it makes sense to go... imho... I would spend 5 years in school and thereafter building a contact list of key people who need to buy in to your ideas, like you as a person and businessperson, and have the ability to take your plans into reality. Think of school as a learning experience, but also a credibility-building experience in your professional sphere... You need to get out there and present your ideas in conferences and symposia, develop your voice and pitch, and ultimately become the steward of getting your product/service/advice to market.Pay attention to the case studies of how things get done. Don't put them down after you've read them, as they are only a starting point to building your road map to get to your destination.One important thing is that successful people don't get where they want to go by doing just the things that they are good at and enjoy. Serious people are efficient in doing what needs to get done, not what they like doing or what they are good at. That's an important lesson to keep in mind, because it requires sacrifice and effort beyond what most people are willing to exert.I think about the destination, how i'll get there, and build the infrastructure at the micro level to get it done. If there are blanks that you need help filling, you need to have a full rolodex of world-class individuals that you can reach out to for help. Along the way the collaborations become partnerships, friendships, sometimes even more than that. Life is inter-connected and a lot of the job is taking your efforts and finding leverage points to magnify your abilities. Take a guy like marc zuckerberg and ask why he is worth $50Bln... it's because he found a way to create a platform that allows users to create valuable content for him on his site which is a virtual piece of property. Like him, you have to piece together a professional life which is a platform to leverage your abilities and amplify them to achieve larger goals that would be impossible to accomplish by yourself. The GMAT and school are small pieces of that puzzle, but nevertheless important in putting together a greater construct. Quote i don't care what u think of me. unless u think i'm awesome. in which case u're right. Intro - Workout Log - ABS Log - Fitness Philosophy - Accountability - NERDEE - Weight Maintenance Link to comment
ZenGwen Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Ah! That makes a lot more sense and sounds like an awesome plan. You've got it all figured out, for a while, anyway. Quote Pain is the feeling of weakness leaving the body. Blog | Pinterest | Fitocracy Link to comment
aj_rock Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Invaluable post ETF. Thanks for your time Zen: maybe you could share a bit more of your thinking? Law school vs business management vs all other grad studies is pretty broad. You sound more into the MBA, but why the others then? Law school seems to be a pretty infamous back up for a lot of people who catapulted into the public eye Quote Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log! Link to comment
bigdamnhero Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 A bunch of my friends from University just finished their MBAs and I remember the stress they were under while taking the GMATs and I count myself lucky that I don't have the ambition to take them. Finishing my undergrad was stressful enough for me. Quote Link to comment
ZenGwen Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Invaluable post ETF. Thanks for your time Zen: maybe you could share a bit more of your thinking? Law school vs business management vs all other grad studies is pretty broad. You sound more into the MBA, but why the others then? Law school seems to be a pretty infamous back up for a lot of people who catapulted into the public eye Because everyone in my immediate family is in education on some level or another, and 3/4 of them have PhDs. I was one of those kids who had two activities a day scheduled, and was in AP classes, and got 99th percentile on my SATs, ACTs, SAT IIs... and so on. (Not necessarily because I'm uber-smart, but I'm good at tests!) So now I have to take all the tests. Just in case. It's obligatory. Also I had to run a club in college, and do volunteer work, and have summer jobs, and... Basically, I grew up with my world-renowned criminologist father saying "You can't always be the smartest in the room, but you can always be the most prepared," and my also very successful academic mother adding "but you'd better usually be the smartest in the room, too." They both have real American Dream stories. But hey, now I'm a philosophy grad in this economy with a decent job right out of college, so I'm not complaining.On a more personal level... yeah, the GMAT is the one I'm most interested in, career-wise. But my career plans seem to shift majorly every six months, and scores lock in for five years, so I may as well take them all in case I need them. The GRE is mostly just a warm-up to get me back into the testing mindset. And the LSAT... well, I actually do really enjoy scoring highly on tests, heh. And looking at the format, I think the LSAT is the one I'm most suited to. I've spent the last four years studying logical argument. Plus, if my business plans don't work out, I would love to go to law school and use it to become more active on women's issues. Providing legal help, maybe working for a lobby. I'd love to go into politics straight up, but I don't think I'm really clean cut enough to be a good candidate for my party.Editied to add: Also, yeah, there's a joke I like - "It has been discovered that lawyers are merely politicians in their larval form." With Philosophy as a common undergrad degree for American lawyers, I'm not sure what that makes me... a politician-egg? pah, Bio! The only class I ever took twice. Quote Pain is the feeling of weakness leaving the body. Blog | Pinterest | Fitocracy Link to comment
aj_rock Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Zen: that's interesting! I come from an almost complete reversed background; both parents, while uber smart, never went to post-secondary and as a result probably didn't achieve as much in their careers as they could.That's pretty funny about taking tests just because you like taking them though The invention of random quizzes on facebook and whatnot must have been horribly distracting! I think the philosophy + LSAT would make you more.... ummm.... egg and tadpole bahahahah. I haven't the faintest idea how the political ladder works in the states though. Just remember that both law and political work are fairly soul draining activities. Quote Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log! Link to comment
ZenGwen Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Zen: that's interesting! I come from an almost complete reversed background; both parents, while uber smart, never went to post-secondary and as a result probably didn't achieve as much in their careers as they could.That's pretty funny about taking tests just because you like taking them though The invention of random quizzes on facebook and whatnot must have been horribly distracting!Oh my goodness you have no idea. I'm also annoying as crap to watch any quiz shows with.I think the philosophy + LSAT would make you more.... ummm.... egg and tadpole bahahahah. I haven't the faintest idea how the political ladder works in the states though. Just remember that both law and political work are fairly soul draining activities.Heh, yeah. Which is why I'm hoping my startup pans out! Even though I'm expecting 100 hour workweeks for the first few years... Quote Pain is the feeling of weakness leaving the body. Blog | Pinterest | Fitocracy Link to comment
aj_rock Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Heh, yeah. Which is why I'm hoping my startup pans out! Even though I'm expecting 100 hour workweeks for the first few years...Only 100? Pretty ambitious Quote Why must I put a name on the foods I choose to eat and how I choose to eat them? Rather than tell people that I eat according to someone else's arbitrary rules, I'd rather just tell them, I eat healthy. And no, my diet does not have a name.My daily battle log! Link to comment
ETFnerd Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 it doesn't seem like work when you're immersed in it and it's for your benefit directly... a few months in that grinder you start to look like you've aged 10 years in 3 months... Quote i don't care what u think of me. unless u think i'm awesome. in which case u're right. Intro - Workout Log - ABS Log - Fitness Philosophy - Accountability - NERDEE - Weight Maintenance Link to comment
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