Reps

[RedRightHand]

I'm never quite sure if I'm working out "properly" - I believe my form is good, but I'm never sure if I'm lifting the correct amount of weight the appropriate amount of times for the desired effects.

My strength has definitely increased; when I began Barbell Battalion on Jan. 2 I was working with just the bar and barely able to do a pullup; now I'm up to about 20-25lbs/side of the barbell & 4 chin ups / 3 pullups. Not earth shaking, but steady improvement.

From the BB manual, it suggests 5 sets of 5 reps at your desired weight. Yet in the "How to build Your Own Workout" post, there's this:

What’s the significance of the different number of repetitions?

Reps in the 1-5 range build super dense muscle and strength (called myofibrillar hypertrophy).

Reps in the 6-12 range build a somewhat equal amounts of muscular strength and muscular endurance.

Reps in the 12+ range build muscular endurance and size (this is called sarcoplasmic hypertrophy).

My personal goal is to build strength & muscle while trimming fat through adoption of a stricter, paleo diet along with some cardio (running, using the Couch to 5K app for iPhone) on non-lifting days.

With that goal in mind, should I then indeed by lifting in the 6-12 range? If that's the case, I'd read that 8 is really the max you should shoot for. Again, that being the case, if I'm maxing out at 5 reps of 50lbs on the Push Press, it makes sense to drop that to say, 35/40lbs @ 8 reps then?

I'm trying to do this the most efficient way possible; I've spent a lot of time in the gym in the past not really accomplishing much. Thanks all for reading & any comments/suggestions you can offer!

[Waldo]

You should work out more specific goals. Your goals are about as general as can be. Break your larger goal into smaller manageable chunks, and then into even smaller pieces and figure out how to attack it. You won't be able to focus on everything at once.

Build strength and muscle, could be further broken down into body parts, and from there a plan of action take shape, from the near term to off in the distance.

[Malnux]

I remember in the P90X videos they guy always said 8-10 reps to build big muscle and 12-15 reps for lean muscle.

[RedRightHand]

Why not focus on everything at once? I was under the impression that was the purpose of the Barbell Battalion portion of NF. Full body exercises that work everything to build overall strength & trim down...

[bigm141414]

Why not focus on everything at once? I was under the impression that was the purpose of the Barbell Battalion portion of NF. Full body exercises that work everything to build overall strength & trim down...

True, compound eercises will do this. There is a balance you'll have to maintain between strength gains and running gains. Very hard if not impossible to be great at both at once. What is your previous training like? If you are brand new to barbell stuff I suggest either a Starting Strength 3x5 routine or a StrongLifts 5x5 routine. Do this for about 6-9 months and you will build a good working base of strength. Both of these programs are 5 reps a set which is enough t otrim down and build massive amounts of strength (for example I started last July, dropped 30 lbs and can dead lift 375 now when I couldn't even lift before that). After the 9ish month period you can worry about changing your training to focus on stuff you like doing.

[joeyb]

I just had a long discussion with my med school friend about this. Basically, worrying about which type of hypertrophy is occurring is way to complicated. His suggestion to me was to stick with what I'm doing which is to get to 3 sets of 15 on the bodyweight exercise and then increase the level of difficulty for that exercise. The whole thing is kind of a balancing act so it's hard to tell you one rep range is better because, over time, that will change what your diet should look like and what types of exercise you should be doing.

[Waldo]

Why not focus on everything at once? I was under the impression that was the purpose of the Barbell Battalion portion of NF. Full body exercises that work everything to build overall strength & trim down...

This isn't really focusing on everything though. You will hit every muscle to some degree and certainly will grow your 1RM at compound exercises fast. Stength is the obvious place to start on an overall path for many. But it doesn't hit everything, you are sacrificing maximum muscle growth rate and ability to sustain the use of strength. But you can't focus on everything at once. LIS, strength is the obvious starting point though.

This is the same with running. You really can't become good at all distances at once. 5K is an obvious starting point since it is a short endurance distance though.

[Waldo]

I just had a long discussion with my med school friend about this. Basically, worrying about which type of hypertrophy is occurring is way to complicated. His suggestion to me was to stick with what I'm doing which is to get to 3 sets of 15 on the bodyweight exercise and then increase the level of difficulty for that exercise. The whole thing is kind of a balancing act so it's hard to tell you one rep range is better because, over time, that will change what your diet should look like and what types of exercise you should be doing.

The principle of specificity applies to rep ranges as well. Getting good in one rep range doesn't make you good in others. Sticking in the 1-5 reps range won't increase your ability to do lots and lots of sets in the 6-15 rep range nor will it help you rep out to infinity in a single set. The same applied to the other two rep ranges as well. Each focuses on a different primary fueling system (c-p, anaerobic, aerobic), getting good at it does little to nothing for the other fueling systems.

[aj_rock]

I would make an argument to include a little of everything. Personally, I'm giving reverse pyramids a try, where the rep range increases with each set. Mind you, it's not exactly a beginner's routine, but I've always felt like, over time, your training should change as follows:

- Learning stage: Whatever rep range you choose, just work it. Keep stuff light, learn the movements

- Beginner's stage: I would honestly go with low reps for compound work at first. If obvious deficits exist, target it with slightly higher range specialized movements

- Intermediate: Combination hypertrophy with strength, either simultaneously or alternating periods of. Pure training in one domain or another can only take you so far, so your average 'get-fit' person will want both. Hey, if you wanna powerlift, go ahead and do pure strength. That's not what everyone wants

- Advanced: normal people can just coast at twice weekly training once they reach an optimal strength level; going beyond that is no longer necessary to increase standard/qualities of life. People who really want to look at taking things further should consider what it is they want to do really good with, and take that training to the next level.

[RedRightHand]

The running is mostly to get out and get moving on non-lifting days. I've read that running can actually be detrimental to lifting gains (or thought I've read something to that effect). I'm currently on a StrongLifts 5X5 routine.

How did you approach increasing the amount you lifted? Was it a planned "each week, add 5lbs/side to the bar" or was it a more gradual approach, where you would add. let's say, an extra 5lbs/side and then stay at that weight until you could get back up to 5x5?

[joeyb]

The principle of specificity applies to rep ranges as well. Getting good in one rep range doesn't make you good in others. Sticking in the 1-5 reps range won't increase your ability to do lots and lots of sets in the 6-15 rep range nor will it help you rep out to infinity in a single set. The same applied to the other two rep ranges as well. Each focuses on a different primary fueling system (c-p, anaerobic, aerobic), getting good at it does little to nothing for the other fueling systems.

I know. My workout is way more complicated than what I said, but I was summarizing the conclusion of our conversation. The point that I was trying to make, though, was that, even though my goals sort of align with his, there isn't one ideal rep range that is going to get him more strength. There are levels of both types of hypertrophy and other things going on in all different numbers of reps. It's really a YMMV situation because no one is the same. So, for me, getting up to 3x15 in bodyweight exercises (I wouldn't do that many if I was using barbells because the increments in difficulty are smaller) tends to be an ideal milestone that signifies that I can move up to the next difficulty.

[Waldo]

This goes back to goals. Is it your goal to gain strength as fast as humanly possible? Running might not be a good idea.

Are you trying to lose weight primarily, with other goals secondary? Exercising on your off days from lifting is probably a good idea. Running is a very efficient way to burn calories and it is very good for your heart.

When people talk about running negatively affecting lifting, they usually aren't referring to running 5K unless they don't like running. It will seem hard at first, but once you are used to running, a 5K is an easy run, especially if you don't push your speed limit.

[Waldo]

I know. My workout is way more complicated than what I said, but I was summarizing the conclusion of our conversation. The point that I was trying to make, though, was that, even though my goals sort of align with his, there isn't one ideal rep range that is going to get him more strength. There are levels of both types of hypertrophy and other things going on in all different numbers of reps. It's really a YMMV situation because no one is the same. So, for me, getting up to 3x15 in bodyweight exercises (I wouldn't do that many if I was using barbells because the increments in difficulty are smaller) tends to be an ideal milestone that signifies that I can move up to the next difficulty.

I do bodyweight too. I moved on from the strength focus though for now. I tried to move up at about 7-8 reps, or at least began learning the exercises. I'm at a point of stability though right now strength-wise (can do pistols, 1 arm pushups, pullups, full bridges, headstand pushups, and L-sits), it seems like a good place to go a different direction for a couple months, work on my capacity to do lots and lots of reps and sets, and just try to maintain this strength point. The pursuit of this stength point though let my strength endurance atrophy quite a bit.

[morethanjustamom]

Piggybacking on this thread, do any of you change the weight/reps during the week? For example:

Monday- low rep/heavy weight

Wednesday- high rep/low weight

Friday- med rep/med weight

[Taylor]

Piggybacking on this thread, do any of you change the weight/reps during the week? For example:

Monday- low rep/heavy weight

Wednesday- high rep/low weight

Friday- med rep/med weight

Or for that matter, changing up your reps as you complete a new weight?? Similar to BW progressions...

Monday- Moving up to weight X, 3X5

Wednesday- Weight X at 3X7

Friday- Weight X at 3X10

Monday- Weight X+5 at 3X5

and so on?

[161803398874989]

Piggybacking on this thread, do any of you change the weight/reps during the week? For example:

Monday- low rep/heavy weight

Wednesday- high rep/low weight

Friday- med rep/med weight

Incorporating light/heavy days is useful if you're more advanced, but for a beginner stick with linear progression while adding weight to the bar. 5x5 is a strong template for a beginner.

The thing with rep changes is that you it gets more difficult to monitor process quickly. I think it could be used to improve on hard-to-improve lifts like the press, but for the compound exercises you're probably best off on linear progression with weights, keeping the reps constant.

[aj_rock]

Piggybacking on this thread, do any of you change the weight/reps during the week? For example:

Monday- low rep/heavy weight

Wednesday- high rep/low weight

Friday- med rep/med weight

I used to do two days light weights, then medium, then heavy in a week. I also followed a very specific carb cycling program, but the goal was always to improve upon the weights used in the heavier, low-rep range. For high rep activity, if you feel the burn, you're doing the work.

[RedRightHand]

Thanks to everyone for weighing in on this; the feedback is great.