Do you have your gallbladder still? (ie, Gallstones)

[Moxie Hart]

I didn't really post about it because I'm still processing, but I never got to take my roller derby skills test a few weeks ago because I had a gallstone attack. I'd thought I might have a gall bladder issue for a while but had been avoiding dealing with it. I finally got an ultrasound and have confirmations that I do indeed have rock sized gallstones.

Obviously my doctor wants my gallbladder taken out. Yet I read this not too long ago:

http://paleoparents.com/featured/how-to-enjoy-bacon-without-a-gallbladder/

Honestly, I'm living in a world of confusion right now. I don't do well going serious paleo, it causes my eating disorders to flare up. And yet, so many suggest this is the only way to save my gallbladder. Even if I do get it taken out... I'm still having to be careful about my diet from what I can tell.

Anyway, I'm curious if anyone else has experience or insight to share.

[mandy75]

I had my gallbladder removed about 10yrs ago. My middle child was about 2 to 4 months old. I have had no issues, with anything, since having it removed, no matter what my diet is. My last attack came at cook out, i had just eaten a ton of deviled eggs and was doubled over in pain. My husband didn't give me a choice and took to the ER. I had started turning yellow from an unhappy liver, I had 5 stones on my common bile duct that had to be removed, before I had the gallbladder taken out. I have been very very grateful, to never have to feel that pain, ever again.

[Hrunter]

My gallbladder came out when I was 23.

I had the easier recovery of the two, but they still cut through my diaphragm to get to things. =\

-That- made exercising hard.

It takes a little while to catch back up, but one can still go full Paleo without a gallbladder!

I had roast beef less than 24 hours after my surgery.

Mind you, I refused all pain meds to keep my liver unburdened.

Its an adjustment thing, but a person can still function wonderfully!

Another thing though - one can still have 'Gallbladder pains' while the liver adjusts

to producing more bile because it can't be concentrated without the gallbladder.

I still can't eat much mundare sausage But not a big loss!

My tips:

Treat your liver nicely, so it can do its bile producing work!

Fish oils are great!

Try to go easy on the liver-processed stuff like tylenol, alcohol.

When ye have Gall attacks, if you're able to stomach it of course, drink a shot of vinegar.

This is *really* hard on the stomach acids, so feel free to water the shot down.

Vinegar helps emulsify fats, the same function as bile!

That is to say - break it into a more manageable size, to digest and discard.

Anything that does this can potentially be beneficial alongside fatty foods.

[LadyGigi]

I recommend not waiting to get your gallbladder out. I did and ended up with emergency surgery and a badly infected gallbladder. It was the worst experience of my life - and I have had a c-section after 24 hours of labor.

[ZenGwen]

Do I have a gallbladder? Don't even know. Apparently they took out my tonsils when I was a kid during one of my surgeries without me noticing! And they grabbed a rib too. And a couple teeth. So who knows what else the doctors have nicked...

In all seriousness, major hugs. Wish I had something more helpful to tell you.

[Morrigainz]

I had mine out at 25 (5 years ago) and have experienced no problems except sometimes when I drink excessively (like, REALLY excessively) I get pain like a gallstone attack. But I've had no trouble eating fatty foods or anything.

That post seems like an alarmist article. It sucks that she had that experience but I have never heard of anything like that. Actually (this may be TMI) I had trouble going #2 for a bit after my surgery. The doctor said that might happen, and I took some laxatives (recommended) to help, ah, move things along.

That said, no problems here, and I'm trying to be paleo Actually I only seem to have trouble when I introduce grains back into my diet

[Moxie Hart]

Thanks everyone. This is all helpful. Googling gives me such contradictory information.

[morethanjustamom]

I still have my gallbladder. I've had attacks in the past, but they stopped when I cut gluten from my diet.

I'm 32, fwiw.

[Waldo]

My wife gots hers out fairly shortly after giving birth. I have no idea what a gallbladder attack is like but she said it was far worse than labor.

High fat foods used to give her attacks, and nowadays when she has a pseudo attack (even a year after removal) it is following a high fat food, especially pork.

That article really missed the point, typical paleo and no gluten is the answer to all and doctors know nothing garbage...the whole point of the gall bladder is to aid with hard to digest meals, and the hardest to digest thing for the stomach that it needs lots of bile for is....fat. Stones cause the organ to not work properly, so the suggestion for care before it is removed is to limit how much the organ is used, limit fat intake. Not as a means of getting thin or making the gallbladder better, avoid specific meals with very high fat contents to avoid attacks. Pork tends to be the worst offender, many things made with pork (incl bacon) have an extremely high amount of hard to digest fat.

She never had the issues with #2. The doctors clearly said that it was one of the risks, that about 10% of people that have the surgery have issues with #2.

She was a little worried before hand, in hindsight she wishes she got it out sooner as it made life miserable. Toward the end it was no longer even optional, she started getting multiple attacks a day (as opposed to once every few weeks), the doctors were afraid it was going to burst, which is very, very, very bad.

As far as I know, there really aren't really any good treatments outside of removal. By the time you get to having attacks, the gallstones are already too big to try to eliminate with a more conservative treatment. And if I recall correctly, the drug for them takes a long time (years) to work, and if you go off the drug the gallstones will return.

[Garth]

Sorry, I have nothing to add on the gallbladder front, but sorry to hear you missed out on taking your min skills test. Good luck for when you do get to take it.

It's awesome to see another person here that's into Roller Derby. I NSO and am learning to skate so I can ref eventually for my local league.

[Moxie Hart]

Thanks Waldo, I think a lot of what you said is kind of where I've been leaning with it. The pain is really awful, and definitely worse than labor. And I've given labor twice, without drugs.

garthgreen - I NSO Too! Its too much fun. There is at least one more derby girl, I think possibly two, on the forums. Derby has been the hardest thing I've ever done but also... I love it.

In the end I will probably have to take it out, but timing will be tricking. I can't be off skates for surgery right now but I know I need to work it in before it gets worse.

[Garth]

I skated for the first time last night, and I have a new found respect for all the ladies that play. I've never ached as much as I do today.

It's a great sport, and just glad I get to play some small part in it.

Have you got a derby name yet?

[oystergirl]

Kindle, it is interesting to me that both you and another friend of mine who had lap band both have issues with their gall bladder. My sister had hers out after going extremely low carb and low fat at the same time. What I would suggest you do is read up on foods that actually stimulate bile secretion...if you can get your bile liquid again and being used regularly then the stones, which are clogs and hardening of the bile salts then you should be able to alleviate the issue.

Some folks I know have done a gall bladder cleanse which involves drinking like a cup of olive oil and lemon juice and they pee out their buts these little green stones. It's gross but it does alleviate their symptoms.

Best of luck figuring it all out. Big hugs.

[Moxie Hart]

I skated for the first time last night, and I have a new found respect for all the ladies that play. I've never ached as much as I do today.

It's a great sport, and just glad I get to play some small part in it.

Have you got a derby name yet?

I do have one, I think. I can't register it yet but I'm thinking of going with Moxie Hart.

[Moxie Hart]

Kindle, it is interesting to me that both you and another friend of mine who had lap band both have issues with their gall bladder. My sister had hers out after going extremely low carb and low fat at the same time. What I would suggest you do is read up on foods that actually stimulate bile secretion...if you can get your bile liquid again and being used regularly then the stones, which are clogs and hardening of the bile salts then you should be able to alleviate the issue.

Some folks I know have done a gall bladder cleanse which involves drinking like a cup of olive oil and lemon juice and they pee out their buts these little green stones. It's gross but it does alleviate their symptoms.

Best of luck figuring it all out. Big hugs.

It was surprising to me how common it is. :-/ And the risk factors for it are all over the place. Low cal diets, hit fat diets, being obese, losing weight too fast, birth control, child birth, etc etc. Its crazy.

[LadyGigi]

I want to make it clear that once you have stones you will always have them. While a certain diet may help you while you wait to get it taken out it is not a long term solution.

Basically what happens when you have an attack is your gall bladder is attempting to push out a stone. If it succeeds it will literally tear apart your duct that is shared with your liver and leads to a lot worse issues. If the stone gets stuck (like mine did) at the opening it will become infected if not treated. Eating a diet that stimulates use of your gall bladder puts you at higher risk for attacks which means you are at higher risk for problems.

The only solution once you have confirmed you have stones is to have surgery. I highly suggest getting it scheduled and out before you have serious issues as it will be easier on you to have outpatient surgery then to end up in the hospital for a few days.

[Hrunter]

I'm with Lady Gigi on this one, for the most part.

Signs you need to get it out immediately (emergency surgery style):

Unexplained signs of infection with chronic Gall pains; Pain in the mid-right abdomen throughout the body, extending to beneath the shoulder blade. Fever, chills.

Signs of Diabetic Emergency.

Jaundiced or clay colored steatorrhea.

Jaundice.

Its not so much that your gall bladder is trying to push the stone out. The gallbladder contracts to excrete bile when we eat foods with fat. Stones float to the entrance, block it, making it impossible for the gall bladder to secrete bile. That's where most of the pain comes from. Occaisionally, a stone gets pushed out from prolonged effort. If small enough it can pass through the common bile duct harmlessly. However, the problem gets worse, as mentioned, if the stone is big - getting stuck in the common bile duct. Not only can it create a back flow of bile, but that back up can go into your pancreas - which also shares that there duct.

Temporary solutions include shattering the stones or softening the stones. Here's the kicker; if you have stones, regardless of what you do with them, they grow back.

The only way to fully solve gall stones at this point is to get your gallbladder out.

There are 2 common proceedures:

Laparoscopic; 4 incisions are made to get the tools inside. Day surgery. 7-10 days recovery, no heavy lifting, return home the same day. Typically no muscles cut, no muscular rehab. 15-22 stitches/staples. In SPIDER equipped facilities, this is the procedure 90% of the time.

Open; large incision on the mid-right abdomen or mid-central abdomen. Minimum 4 days hopsitalization (depends on local protocol), 40 days recovery, no heavy lifting. Muscles are cut, requires muscular rehabilitation. # of stitches/staples depends on incision. This procedure is relatively uncommon, but is the alternative procedure if there are complications in attempting the Laparoscope.

There may also be need to clean out the common bile duct during the procedure. This is done by endo- & Fluro- scopy, opening the duct and removing the stones. There is a small (~5%) chance of Pancreatitis (infection), and requires a contrast dye. Tell your surgeon about any allergies especially to shellfish, iodine or other contrast dyes.

If there is need for any alteration of the sphincter of Oddi (seperates your bile ducts from your intestines) there are additional potential complications, but I"m not too familiar with them, sorry.

Progesterone/pregnancy hormones as birth control are strongly linked to gallbladder difficulties for those with family history regardless of age, sadly. But!

The amazing Human body can adapt!

Also: Moxie Hart would be rocking. Have you checked it up on Two Evils?

I tried getting into Derby before coming out & starting my transition. Good times, great sport!

[Moxie Hart]

Hrunter, so much information! Thank you! Recovery time is definitely a concern as I am just getting started at derby, I don't want to have to be off skates for weeks and then start all over :-/ Its taken so much hard work to get here. I was going to ask a lot of those questions (and still will) when I have my surgeon consult.

I think I am most conflicted because my best friend is VERY into paleo and seems convinced I could save my gallbladder if I just took care of myself a certain way. Everything I read says otherwise and logically it doesn't make sense to me.

re: Moxie Hart -- I have checked. It has one name that is a high match (Moxie Star) but otherwise I think its good to go. I hear that two evils may be going by the wayside tho... it takes months to a year to get a name through there now

[LadyGigi]

I had the emergency surgery and was back to work (still sore) after a week. I think it would go better if it was planned out. Ask your surgeon how long they would want you out of practice and maybe try to sechedule it around a lull in practice/season. Not sure how derby works if you have off months or anything.

[oystergirl]

I have to say that my mother and another friend of mine who had serious gall bladder attacks and changed their diets have been free of symptoms for over 10 years each. Diet changes take a bit of time to see results but they are effective if you catch the situation early and they know the size of your stones. Obviously if they are too big, or like my sister, your gall bladder is so clogged it is literally dead, then surgery is an effective way to deal with the issue, but you will then have to really watch how you eat even more so for the rest of your life. My sister has found that she absolutely cannot eat ANY processed fats because she will literally crap herself...you have to figure it out for yourself once you have the surgery and everyone reacts differently.

[Waldo]

I had the emergency surgery and was back to work (still sore) after a week. I think it would go better if it was planned out. Ask your surgeon how long they would want you out of practice and maybe try to sechedule it around a lull in practice/season. Not sure how derby works if you have off months or anything.

My wife was real sore for about 4-5 days, by a week she was back to mostly normal, though it took a few weeks more to fully heal.

It probably isn't a big deal to put off for a it IF you can handle the occaisonal attack (obv eat to avoid the attacks) but be very wary of the frequency increasing. If the frequency does start increasing, it is time to act. My wife put it off until after she was done breastfeeding (and the doctors agreed), but when the frequency started increasing, she hastened the end of breastfeeding to get the surgery, LIS the doctors were very concerned that it was going to burst at that point.

[Unda]

Hrunter, so much information! Thank you! Recovery time is definitely a concern as I am just getting started at derby, I don't want to have to be off skates for weeks and then start all over :-/ Its taken so much hard work to get here. I was going to ask a lot of those questions (and still will) when I have my surgeon consult.

I think I am most conflicted because my best friend is VERY into paleo and seems convinced I could save my gallbladder if I just took care of myself a certain way. Everything I read says otherwise and logically it doesn't make sense to me.

re: Moxie Hart -- I have checked. It has one name that is a high match (Moxie Star) but otherwise I think its good to go. I hear that two evils may be going by the wayside tho... it takes months to a year to get a name through there now

With regards to the recovery time I had my gallbladder out two months ago and I've only just been allowed to start lifting again. I was told no exersise period for a month and no lifting anything over 10lbs for six weeks.

You also can't do anything about getting rid of stones, if you have them you'll always get them again. Seriously get the damn thing out, it's far too painful to live with. I woke up the day after my surgery when all the meds had worn off and I ACHED like a mofo from the surgery and yet what I felt was relief because whilst I was in pain it was still so much less pain than the stones themselves.

Even if you have to put a short hold on derby do it, derby isn't going anywhere, it'll still be there when you're recovered.

Sucks to hear that about two evils though... I wonder what'll happen about names now.

[Jcannon98188]

IMHO you should never put derby (or anything) above your health. Gallstones can cause serious issues. Ask yourself, is it worth it to gamble your health on the line?

You can always return to derby later.