Stuck! Need some help with weight loss plateau pls.

[LessJos]

Ok, maybe I start with a short story about what happened so far. I was overweight/obese and terribly unfit all my life until I decided enough is enough last year and lost almost 75 lbs basically counting calories (using an old ww formula at first and then myfitnesspal). I did start working out last summer (halfway through the weight loss) with C25K and some circuit training but really not much. I never was fit or interested in sports.

Until I started capoeira this January. Now I am hooked. I also added 2hrs zumba and yoga plus workouts at home (bodyweight exercises, Jillian DVDs, practicing capoeira, handstands etc.) and I am way more active in general. Though I am really struggling on every front (flexibility, strength, cardio etc.) because well, I never did workout! I am super slow in gaining strength, flexibility and I am sore a lot.

Anyways, since I began to really workout I seem to only plateau or gain. I started the year with 1200 calories (plus eating back all or most of workout calories determined by HRM) and stalled. Increased to 1400 calories end of January, gained a few pounds and stalled again. End of March I upped the calories to 1700 calories and lost a couple of pounds, gained them again in following weeks and stalled. Now it is mid of May and I am right at the same spot.

My stats are 5'8, ~170 lbs, 35 yr, female, bf around 30%/22mm and I do eat as clean as I can. My diet is not perfect but it wasn't last year either and I did lose a lot of weight.

MFP diary: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/josey12

I measure body fat with a caliper and don't see any change but find it also very tough to measure the same way every time. I do seem to slooowly increase my strength and see more muscle definition (upper arms & calves mostly). But the scale, tape measurements and bf caliper are not moving.

This is so frustrating and confusing!! What's wrong with me? I don't know what to do next. I am afraid of increasing my calories and I am not really hungry either. But I am also afraid of decreasing my calories again since that didn't seem to work anymore.

Help!

[epaleocookbooks]

I had the same problem back when I was doing weight loss competitions. I rocked them and lost tons of weight, but eventually I just quit losing. I tried lowering calories, upping my workouts, carb cycling - pretty much everything I could think of. From my own experience, there are a few things you can try that might help you pinpoint the problem.

1st - try following a paleo diet for two weeks. Not strict paleo, but follow some basic rules - no grains, legumes or dairy. Limit fruit to 1 or 2 pieces a day. Really focus on eating meat, veggies (no potatoes), nuts, oils. And make sure you're drinking enough water. The general rule is 1 oz per 2 lbs of body weight every day. Theoretically, the change in diet should kickstart your metabolism.

2nd - stress could be a factor. Stress triggers the same hormones as your period or pregnancy, which can cause water and fat retention. Try meditation, get a massage, whatever you need to unwind. The more you worry about the fact that you're not losing, the worse it's going to get.

If none of that helps, you may want to see a doctor to get a thyroid panel run. That's what ended up being wrong with me. I have hypothyroidism. T4 thyroid hormones regulate your metabolism, so if you t4 numbers are low, it would be sluggish. A simple pill a day can help rev it back up for you.

[LessJos]

I dont think I can give up dairy. I might try primal. Giving up grain will be tough though.

[cline]

Your body adapts to exercise. Change up routines.

Try primal if you arent ready for paleo.

[LessJos]

Your body adapts to exercise. Change up routines.

Try primal if you arent ready for paleo.

Oh I am switching workouts. Maybe even too much I think. I get bored easily.

[VorJoshigan]

I second the dropping of the grains. I like to tell myself stories about the paleo diet. Just make stuff up. I asked myself a while back- what is the point of grains? Well one situation where grains would be great is in the fall, when our hand to mouth forbears would have wanted to fatten themselves up for the coming winter.

Why is it that we crave carbs so much? It would have been hugely advantageous for us to eat above and beyond our normal diet while it is available and before a hard winter. We're not bears of course, but I think it's logical to theorize that there may be a similar mechanism at work in our DNA. Human + carbs= hunger frenzy. Our bodies making us eat even if we don't want to so that we are prepared for lean times.

Like I said, it's all make-believe, but it helps me avoid grains.

[Dio]

I agree with everyone that changing where your calories from will give better results than strict number of calories. you seem to be making good progress in general, so maybe you're one of those lucky people that doesn't need a radical change. Instead of going pure primal/paleo, maybe try simple replacement on some of your meals. Instead of a bowl of cereal in the morning, oatmeal. Instead of a side of frenchfries, sweet potato fries. Skip the pasta meal and have a nice chicken dish. Basically, don't kill yourself over it, but when you can replace empty calories with nutrient rich calories, try it, and see how it makes you feel.

Additionally, scales and calipers are great, but to me there are two better measuring devices: a camera snapping a picture every three days and just paying attention to how your energy level feels or being able to accomplish new fitness goals. That is worlds better than anything a scale can say.

I've also heard stories of people who are plateauing on calipers and scale but burning fat NOT measured easily and building muscle mass to replace it, and then all of the sudden one day it just all starts falling off. To me, that's something better to shoot for! For me at least, number one point of all of this is being healthy. Looking better naked is just a happy side effect!

[LessJos]

I agree with everyone that changing where your calories from will give better results than strict number of calories. you seem to be making good progress in general, so maybe you're one of those lucky people that doesn't need a radical change. Instead of going pure primal/paleo, maybe try simple replacement on some of your meals. Instead of a bowl of cereal in the morning, oatmeal. Instead of a side of frenchfries, sweet potato fries. Skip the pasta meal and have a nice chicken dish. Basically, don't kill yourself over it, but when you can replace empty calories with nutrient rich calories, try it, and see how it makes you feel.

Did you look at what I eat (MFP link)? I don't eat french fries and hardly any pasta. Lots of chicken though. My breakfast is basically oats, bran, dried fruit and nuts. I think I could work on less fruit and more veggies and drop the sugar in coffee. Other than that I think I have to go primal/paleo to really change something.

I am wondering if I am eating enough/too much. Any comments on the calorie limit?

[texstorm]

So, here's my take - try to drop all processed foods from your diet. Definitely knock of the sugar in your coffee, and if you're eating a lot of fruit, scale it way back of eliminate it completely. Refined carbs are the devil. If you look at my challenge log thread you'll see two points in the past couple weeks where I gained weight - after eating pasta and after eating pizza. The pasta was a mother's day dinner my wife requested and the pizza was served at the board meeting of a non-profit I belong to last night (they didn't give us any choices, and not eating wasn't an option for me). Refined carbs lead to water retention. If I avoid any refined carbs and sugars today I'll probably see my weight drop a couple lbs on the scale tomorrow. That's the pattern I've observed over the past year.

During the holidays I was not observant with my diet at all and instead of seeing single day spikes in my weight I saw an overall upward trend. To break that cycle I got more strict with my nutrition and also added calories. "Added calories?" you say. Yes. After running the numbers I discovered that I was eating too little and was causing my metabolism to slow down and go into storage mode. You say you upped your calories to 1700. Well, for your age, height and weight, that's not even enough to maintain your current body weight if you weren't exercising at all. Your Resting Metabolic Rate is 1515 calories - if you were to lay in bed all day and not move. Adjusted for a sedentary lifestyle (walking to the toilet, sitting upright, typing at your keyboard for a few hours a day) your RMR is 1818. With the exercise you're doing daily and being generally active, you're probably burning at least 500 calories per day, which means your body really only has about 1300 calories to try to maintain your basic bodily functions. That's too much of a deficit and your metabolism has slowed to compensate.

I'm going to guess that your target weight is around 140 lbs. If that's the case, one method that works well is to target the number of calories you'd need to maintain that weight. Your RMR at 140 lbs with moderate exercise 3 - 5 times a week is 2137 calories. Your RMR with no exercise and doing basic sedentary activities is 1655. So, there's your upper and lower end calorie targets. Never go below 1655. Try that for a few weeks and see what happens. If you do that and cut out refined carbohydrates you ought to see some pretty dramatic results.

Good luck.

You say

[Dio]

Did you look at what I eat (MFP link)?

I am wondering if I am eating enough/too much. Any comments on the calorie limit?

"This user is not allowing others to view his or her food diary. " I tried, but MFP told me no! <smiles> Texstorm brings up a lot of good points. For me when I'm eating clean, I follow the rule of eating whenever I want as long as I'm prioritizing meats and rich veggies (my go-to snack is grilled chicken!) and never eating high-glycemic carbs by themselves that I let/make myself eat whenever I'm hungry. I also let myself do more carbs right after a workout when it will go to good places.

That's what's worked for me. I'd really say try to feel out how your body feels about the food you're eating, though. It's the best gauge.

[Waldo]

My suggestion is to keep doing what you are doing eating and exercise-wise, since it seems to have worked great...

However two things could be very helpful.

1) Do a slight bulk - Don't gasp in horror, there is a really good reason. You need to find your maintenence level. At this point it is all over the map from the stalls. Expect a 2-3 lb bump from refilling glycogen the first week or so, and expect about 2 weeks of momentum from what you were previously doing. Bump up your calories to what you think is a little over maintenece, 250 calories or so (net calories, after workouts are factored in), and keep DETAILED records day to day. Once you get past the first 2 weeks, where things will be a little crazy, things will settle and you should get a smooth line. Let this go for 2-4 weeks and calculate the slope of the weight line. The slope combined with your daily calorie target will tell you your maintenece level. Armed with this information you will be able to set a good target for continued loss. Don't worry about the weight gain from bulking much, you'll burn the 2-3 lb bump from glycogen right away once back in a deficit, it'll be gone in less than a week; unless your guess for maintenence is way low you won't gain more than 3 lbs of actual fat (assuming you don't do it for more than 6 weeks), probably a good bit less as your new muscles will definitely make up some of that weight. The bonus of doing this is that you will progress a good bit faster exercise-wise.

2) The other option that might help is to take a break. Do a refeed, take a week or two off of trying to lose. This will have a positive effect on yoru metabolism. Item 1) above is the same thing, however doing it longer and using it to find what your actual maintenence level is. Use bulking to find maintenence level because for most people, it is easier to gain weight than lose, especially when you are trying to, and in your case plateauing is causing your maintenence level to be impossible to calculate.

Don't be that afraid of gaining. Heck here is my diary, and I'm still losing, about to bump it 250 calories to what I think is maintenence:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/waldo56

[LessJos]

So, here's my take - try to drop all processed foods from your diet. Definitely knock of the sugar in your coffee, and if you're eating a lot of fruit, scale it way back of eliminate it completely. Refined carbs are the devil. If you look at my challenge log thread you'll see two points in the past couple weeks where I gained weight - after eating pasta and after eating pizza. The pasta was a mother's day dinner my wife requested and the pizza was served at the board meeting of a non-profit I belong to last night (they didn't give us any choices, and not eating wasn't an option for me). Refined carbs lead to water retention. If I avoid any refined carbs and sugars today I'll probably see my weight drop a couple lbs on the scale tomorrow. That's the pattern I've observed over the past year.

During the holidays I was not observant with my diet at all and instead of seeing single day spikes in my weight I saw an overall upward trend. To break that cycle I got more strict with my nutrition and also added calories. "Added calories?" you say. Yes. After running the numbers I discovered that I was eating too little and was causing my metabolism to slow down and go into storage mode. You say you upped your calories to 1700. Well, for your age, height and weight, that's not even enough to maintain your current body weight if you weren't exercising at all. Your Resting Metabolic Rate is 1515 calories - if you were to lay in bed all day and not move. Adjusted for a sedentary lifestyle (walking to the toilet, sitting upright, typing at your keyboard for a few hours a day) your RMR is 1818. With the exercise you're doing daily and being generally active, you're probably burning at least 500 calories per day, which means your body really only has about 1300 calories to try to maintain your basic bodily functions. That's too much of a deficit and your metabolism has slowed to compensate.

I'm going to guess that your target weight is around 140 lbs. If that's the case, one method that works well is to target the number of calories you'd need to maintain that weight. Your RMR at 140 lbs with moderate exercise 3 - 5 times a week is 2137 calories. Your RMR with no exercise and doing basic sedentary activities is 1655. So, there's your upper and lower end calorie targets. Never go below 1655. Try that for a few weeks and see what happens. If you do that and cut out refined carbohydrates you ought to see some pretty dramatic results.

Good luck.

You say

I agree I need to work on my carbs and sugars.

I don't understand when you say that I shouldn't go under 1655. I am aiming for 1700 net calories and it is not working. Shouldn't that be the same? I mean 1700 plus eating back what I burn according to the HRM!?

"This user is not allowing others to view his or her food diary. " I tried, but MFP told me no! <smiles> Texstorm brings up a lot of good points. For me when I'm eating clean, I follow the rule of eating whenever I want as long as I'm prioritizing meats and rich veggies (my go-to snack is grilled chicken!) and never eating high-glycemic carbs by themselves that I let/make myself eat whenever I'm hungry. I also let myself do more carbs right after a workout when it will go to good places.

That's what's worked for me. I'd really say try to feel out how your body feels about the food you're eating, though. It's the best gauge.

Sorry, I fixed that. I had the diary open for friends but not public. I have to look up high-glycemic carbs since I am not sure what is on that list. There is so much information out and I find it really tough to weed out the good stuff from fads.

My suggestion is to keep doing what you are doing eating and exercise-wise, since it seems to have worked great...

However two things could be very helpful.

1) Do a slight bulk - Don't gasp in horror, there is a really good reason. You need to find your maintenence level. At this point it is all over the map from the stalls. Expect a 2-3 lb bump from refilling glycogen the first week or so, and expect about 2 weeks of momentum from what you were previously doing. Bump up your calories to what you think is a little over maintenece, 250 calories or so (net calories, after workouts are factored in), and keep DETAILED records day to day. Once you get past the first 2 weeks, where things will be a little crazy, things will settle and you should get a smooth line. Let this go for 2-4 weeks and calculate the slope of the weight line. The slope combined with your daily calorie target will tell you your maintenece level. Armed with this information you will be able to set a good target for continued loss. Don't worry about the weight gain from bulking much, you'll burn the 2-3 lb bump from glycogen right away once back in a deficit, it'll be gone in less than a week; unless your guess for maintenence is way low you won't gain more than 3 lbs of actual fat (assuming you don't do it for more than 6 weeks), probably a good bit less as your new muscles will definitely make up some of that weight. The bonus of doing this is that you will progress a good bit faster exercise-wise.

2) The other option that might help is to take a break. Do a refeed, take a week or two off of trying to lose. This will have a positive effect on yoru metabolism. Item 1) above is the same thing, however doing it longer and using it to find what your actual maintenence level is. Use bulking to find maintenence level because for most people, it is easier to gain weight than lose, especially when you are trying to, and in your case plateauing is causing your maintenence level to be impossible to calculate.

Don't be that afraid of gaining. Heck here is my diary, and I'm still losing, about to bump it 250 calories to what I think is maintenence:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/waldo56

A slight bulk as in bumping my calories? I am willing to try but I don't know how much to be honest. Stepping it up from 1400 to 1700 was a lot in my eyes and it freaks me out a little to go even higher. But I am slowly warming to the idea that maybe it isn't enough yet.

I am not sure how to find out what my maintenance calorie limit is supposed to be though. When I switch MFP to maintain it comes up with 1900 calories. I did some calculations with Fat2Fit yesterday and came up with something like 2200. What's a good way to find out?

I would like to keep it so I can add workout calories because I feel safer to eat more on days I workout instead of generally increasing the calories.

I am all for faster progress exercise-wise!! In the end I don't really care about the number on a scale. I want to drop body fat and get stronger and fitter.

[Waldo]

I would like to keep it so I can add workout calories because I feel safer to eat more on days I workout instead of generally increasing the calories.

I am all for faster progress exercise-wise!! In the end I don't really care about the number on a scale. I want to drop body fat and get stronger and fitter.

The body really doesn't work day to day. Looking at a weekly deficit gives a much better idea of what is going on. I've never really focused much on meeting my daily goals, as long as I meet my weekly goals (with the caveat that I don't like to be left with the prospect of having to eat 5000 calories on Sunday).

One of your issues is that every formula out there, every way of figuring out maintence calories, is just a guess that works for some people and doesn't work for others. You however can get past this issue with the simple formula that:

Maintenence = (Calories In - Calories Burned via Exercise + (Net Weight Loss * 3500)) / # of Days

If you take in 21000 calories in a week (3000/day), burn 3500 calories via exercise (500/day), and lose a pound that week, your maintenece is:

(21000 - 3500 + (1.0*3500))/7 = 3000 calories per day

Now there is enough day to day noise that this is not useful on a daily scale, and is even highly variable on a weekly scale. However extend the scale out longer and you can get a very good fairly low variance answer, especially if you estimate accurately. The one caveat is that the first two weeks after making a calorie intake change, things can be weird so the data is not that useful for this calculation. When you up your daily calorie intake your body will up its regular glycogen levels which will cause a rapid weight bump of a few pounds (mostly water). Uneducated dieters ALWAYS freak out about this (ZOMG I gained 5 pounds of fat this weekend being bad), whereas they are flat out wrong about what is occuring and just being dumb about it, 1 lb of fat = 3500 calories, that is A LOT, virtually impossible to consume in a short time span. Also there is a momentum affect where it takes a couple weeks for the body to really adapt to the changes and act like they occurred.

Learning what YOUR maintence is is a valuable piece of data to have. It gives you the power to gain and lose without having to worry about what is going on. Yes it does change over time slowly, but radical change isn't expected to occur, and if it does it usually signals a real problem. (It is often seen crashing to ridiculous low levels over time in people on starvation diets (whether or not they actually know they are on a stavation diet), a problem much greater in women than men, fortunately it is reversable if a more reasonable eating level is adopted, taking diet breaks where you maintain or even purposely gain a bit protects against this maintenence level crash).

The thing with a slight bulk, you have to be willing to purposely gain weight. While this will cause psychologial melt down in many, over the long term it can be very helpful (especially if you can establish your maintenence level), plus changing from purposely trying to lose to purposely trying to gain (with moderation of course) can be good for the head, especially when you realize how hard it is to do when you are also heavily exercising. Diet breaks are in general very useful, the body doesn't like to sustain losing for months on end.

[LessJos]

The body really doesn't work day to day. Looking at a weekly deficit gives a much better idea of what is going on. I've never really focused much on meeting my daily goals, as long as I meet my weekly goals (with the caveat that I don't like to be left with the prospect of having to eat 5000 calories on Sunday).

One of your issues is that every formula out there, every way of figuring out maintence calories, is just a guess that works for some people and doesn't work for others. You however can get past this issue with the simple formula that:

Maintenence = (Calories In - Calories Burned via Exercise + (Net Weight Loss * 3500)) / # of Days

If you take in 21000 calories in a week (3000/day), burn 3500 calories via exercise (500/day), and lose a pound that week, your maintenece is:

(21000 - 3500 + (1.0*3500))/7 = 3000 calories per day

Now there is enough day to day noise that this is not useful on a daily scale, and is even highly variable on a weekly scale. However extend the scale out longer and you can get a very good fairly low variance answer, especially if you estimate accurately. The one caveat is that the first two weeks after making a calorie intake change, things can be weird so the data is not that useful for this calculation. When you up your daily calorie intake your body will up its regular glycogen levels which will cause a rapid weight bump of a few pounds (mostly water). Uneducated dieters ALWAYS freak out about this (ZOMG I gained 5 pounds of fat this weekend being bad), whereas they are flat out wrong about what is occuring and just being dumb about it, 1 lb of fat = 3500 calories, that is A LOT, virtually impossible to consume in a short time span. Also there is a momentum affect where it takes a couple weeks for the body to really adapt to the changes and act like they occurred.

Learning what YOUR maintence is is a valuable piece of data to have. It gives you the power to gain and lose without having to worry about what is going on. Yes it does change over time slowly, but radical change isn't expected to occur, and if it does it usually signals a real problem. (It is often seen crashing to ridiculous low levels over time in people on starvation diets (whether or not they actually know they are on a stavation diet), a problem much greater in women than men, fortunately it is reversable if a more reasonable eating level is adopted, taking diet breaks where you maintain or even purposely gain a bit protects against this maintenence level crash).

The thing with a slight bulk, you have to be willing to purposely gain weight. While this will cause psychologial melt down in many, over the long term it can be very helpful (especially if you can establish your maintenence level), plus changing from purposely trying to lose to purposely trying to gain (with moderation of course) can be good for the head, especially when you realize how hard it is to do when you are also heavily exercising. Diet breaks are in general very useful, the body doesn't like to sustain losing for months on end.

Your formula pretty much says what you burn is what you lose in a week. So you don't eat back calories but take that as a deficit right?

I am willing to try gaining weight if that's what it takes to figure out how to lose again. I can totally see the value of knowing the maintenance level and being able to adjust up or down as necessary.

However, if I increase by 200 calories or so every few weeks it will take me months. I could base it on one formula and hope for the best? Or better use an average of 2300/day which is 16100/week. The different formulas come up with 2200 - 2400/day for moderate active.

To bulk up for a while do I eat workout calories back? On top of roughly 16100/week? How long should I do this then?

Sorry for all the questions but this is really confusing. I think my head doesn't want to co-operate because I am trying to reduce calories and lose weight for so long.

[texstorm]

I agree I need to work on my carbs and sugars.

I don't understand when you say that I shouldn't go under 1655. I am aiming for 1700 net calories and it is not working. Shouldn't that be the same? I mean 1700 plus eating back what I burn according to the HRM!?

Sorry, I fixed that. I had the diary open for friends but not public. I have to look up high-glycemic carbs since I am not sure what is on that list. There is so much information out and I find it really tough to weed out the good stuff from fads.

A slight bulk as in bumping my calories? I am willing to try but I don't know how much to be honest. Stepping it up from 1400 to 1700 was a lot in my eyes and it freaks me out a little to go even higher. But I am slowly warming to the idea that maybe it isn't enough yet.

I am not sure how to find out what my maintenance calorie limit is supposed to be though. When I switch MFP to maintain it comes up with 1900 calories. I did some calculations with Fat2Fit yesterday and came up with something like 2200. What's a good way to find out?

I would like to keep it so I can add workout calories because I feel safer to eat more on days I workout instead of generally increasing the calories.

I am all for faster progress exercise-wise!! In the end I don't really care about the number on a scale. I want to drop body fat and get stronger and fitter.

I've been using MFP for almost a year. You can find me on there as texstorm. Send me a friend request.

Anyway, I don't enter my calories burned into MFP anymore. I found that incredibly problematic and it tended to encourage me to eat back the calories I'd expended. I've also found that the caloric needs calculator on MFP isn't very good. It's a great site for tracking your food intake, but the other gizmos don't work so hot. My suggestion to you is to set your daily calorie goal for 1900, don't enter your workouts into MFP and just try to stick with that. Beyond the problems with MFP encouraging you to eat back your workout calories, I personally don't trust the calorie burn calculations that HRMs come up with. It's based on a algorithm that's based on some ideal version of a person your age and weight. It doesn't take into account what your VO2 Max is or anything else that is relevant to how many calories you actually burn doing a workout.

Also, try setting your macro nutrient ratios in MFP manually. Their system recommends too many carbohydrates for effective fat loss, in my opinion. Try a carbs 30%, fat 40% and protein 30% ratio. Worked great for me.

[LessJos]

Not stuck anymore. I GAINED 6lbs. Ouch. It is really tough to take even when I know it can't be fat. I sure hope this works and it will break the plateau

[theanne]

Not stuck anymore. I GAINED 6lbs. Ouch. It is really tough to take even when I know it can't be fat. I sure hope this works and it will break the plateau

It would appear to me you're measuring everything by what a scale will tell you.

Sometimes the best way to keep your mental resolve is: measure inches (in many places) only once per week, same time, same conditions. (Example: Friday mornings before breakfast, after going to the bathroom) and go by how you feel instead of what the scale is telling you.

In my own personal battle, scales are the enemy.

[LessJos]

It would appear to me you're measuring everything by what a scale will tell you.

Sometimes the best way to keep your mental resolve is: measure inches (in many places) only once per week, same time, same conditions. (Example: Friday mornings before breakfast, after going to the bathroom) and go by how you feel instead of what the scale is telling you.

In my own personal battle, scales are the enemy.

I am just whining. I am on a refeed for the first week now. I know the scale doesn't tell the whole story. Measurements are the same for now (I measure every 4 weeks incl. yesterday).