jdanger Does Something Stupid

[Loren Wade]

This thread is so full of win. and funny.

and win.

[Sloth the Enduring]

100 swings in ten minutes? 12 swings a minute? I'm not trying to be negative on you, but really? A set of 50 (20 two handed, 15 each arm) takes me about 85 s. with a rest between sets it's about 2 minutes. I just did 400 in just under 16 minutes. The people in the study were presumably pretty fit and proficient with KBs; I bet they did this in under a half hour.

[jdanger]

100 swings in ten minutes? 12 swings a minute? I'm not trying to be negative on you, but really? A set of 50 (20 two handed, 15 each arm) takes me about 85 s. with a rest between sets it's about 2 minutes. I just did 400 in just under 16 minutes. The people in the study were presumably pretty fit and proficient with KBs; I bet they did this in under a half hour.

The main guy in the project said he did it in "a couple hours" most days. In her defense she may be talking overhead swings which people are wont to do. These obviously have a larger amplitude and cycle time. I also suspect it was an every minute on the minute type of effort where you do 12 then rest until the next minute EDT style.

Assuming a normal swing from navel to shoulder height you can cycle about 38 a minute. So 400 nonstop takes around 11 minutes, add in some short breaks and 15-16 isn't a problem. Depending on load of course. Sounds easy. Maybe not so much on day 6 after doing 5,000 in the last five days. Which is of course the whole point.

[azsf]

keep seeing this test pop up and thinking "oh wow more people are reading http://thepsychophysiologist.blogspot.com.au/" but no, it's always T-nation if you like a lot of science in your training, read his blog.

good luck with the challenge jdanger!

[weirdquark]

100 swings in ten minutes? 12 swings a minute? I'm not trying to be negative on you, but really? A set of 50 (20 two handed, 15 each arm) takes me about 85 s. with a rest between sets it's about 2 minutes. I just did 400 in just under 16 minutes. The people in the study were presumably pretty fit and proficient with KBs; I bet they did this in under a half hour.

The main guy in the project said he did it in "a couple hours" most days. In her defense she may be talking overhead swings which people are wont to do. These obviously have a larger amplitude and cycle time. I also suspect it was an every minute on the minute type of effort where you do 12 then rest until the next minute EDT style.

Assuming a normal swing from navel to shoulder height you can cycle about 38 a minute. So 400 nonstop takes around 11 minutes, add in some short breaks and 15-16 isn't a problem. Depending on load of course. Sounds easy. Maybe not so much on day 6 after doing 5,000 in the last five days. Which is of course the whole point.

I try to go to shoulder height and not do overhead swings, though my hands do point towards the floor at the bottom of the swing, which sounds too low if you're traveling between navel and shoulders. But yes, it's a metabolic training exercise that I got from New Rules of Lifting for Abs where you do 10-12 swings and then rest for the remainder of the minute before starting up again; 10-12 swings take me about twenty seconds and then I rest for forty. At the end of a hour lifting session, 10-15 minutes of DB swings with this much rest is reasonably challenging, especially when I'm using a dumbbell that's about a third of my weight. I don't need that much rest at the beginning of the cycle and feel like I'm just hanging out, but if I go much over ten minutes, the recovery time is nice.

I've also done DB swings tabata style, doing one arm for twenty seconds and resting for ten and then doing the other arm and repeating for the four minutes, which gets me about 80-90. I didn't feel too wiped afterwards and probably could have kept going for a while longer.

So I can do 120 swings in ten minutes with 45lbs or I could do 120 swings in half the time using 25lbs. The question is is it more effective to do 1000 swings with lighter weights compressed into shorter periods of time with less rest, or with heavier weights and more rest, or a mix of the two?

[spezzy]

i've also considered doing this, but it just so doesn't line up with my training goals right now.

also: 10k burpees in 10 days would be stupid. i did 1,000 burpees in one day, took it SLOW, and it still took 2 days to get back to lifting normal again.

[jdanger]

keep seeing this test pop up and thinking "oh wow more people are reading http://thepsychophysiologist.blogspot.com.au/" but no, it's always T-nation if you like a lot of science in your training, read his blog.

good luck with the challenge jdanger!

Yeah, tnation has a way of doing that. They really are better now as a lot of respected people actively contribute. I'll check out that blog for sure. I found the one he made for this experiment specifically but didn't manage to find my way to the main blog yet. Thanks!

So I can do 120 swings in ten minutes with 45lbs or I could do 120 swings in half the time using 25lbs. The question is is it more effective to do 1000 swings with lighter weights compressed into shorter periods of time with less rest, or with heavier weights and more rest, or a mix of the two?

Depends on the goal. In general I'd say a mix since the over all goal should involve doing more weight (or reps) in your chosen times - that is to say has some form of progression. Whether you're doing 45lbs in ten minutes or 25lbs in five, you're trying to do more work (reps) in those times every time you repeat each workout. If you like sets of 10-12 start there but start adding reps to each workout however you can until you hit around 14-15 reps for each interval then increase the load and shoot for 10-12 again. You could even do both formats in one session if it suited your particular fancy.

i've also considered doing this, but it just so doesn't line up with my training goals right now.

also: 10k burpees in 10 days would be stupid. i did 1,000 burpees in one day, took it SLOW, and it still took 2 days to get back to lifting normal again.

Yeah unfortunately my training has tanked over the last few months so I'm really not actively pursuing any goals other than to try to maintain what I can. I'd normally not interfere with regular training for something like this but alas, it came along at just the right time. It's the kick in the pants I severely need right now.

And yeah, burpees would be tough and I don't think many people could pull it off without not insignificant problems. The pushup piece alone is going to smoke people. There are a lot of small muscles doing a lot of work that aren't going to be happy about that sort of volume at that frequency. Not to mention the potential for other overuse/strain issues is off the charts. Think about how many people go worming in and out of the bottom of a burpee with wild hips, hyper extended spines in and often back into flexion on the way out. Not great doing 100 that way, let alone 10,000 in 10 days.

For those reasons alone I'd consider something like a thruster a safer choice. It's still going to have a little bit of the first sort of issue with the repeated overhead stuff but you get the obvious boost from the hip action so the upper body musculature takes on more of a stabilization role rather than mobilization (in this context meaning generate motion).. just like a regular swing. Plus the loads we are dealing with at that volume are going to be less than that involved in the pushup piece of a burpee. A good thruster will also maintain a stable spine (just like a good swing) which I would consider the primary importance when dealing with this high of volume.

To narrow down my broad statement above in response to ETF you want big amplitude, compound movements where the primary movers are your hips and you're able to maintain a stable spine through each repetition. The swing is pretty much made to fit this definition, hence it's a smart choice for something so stupid.

With this reasoning it also becomes apparent why attempting this with an overhead, CF style swing wouldn't be the greatest idea.

[cline]

I vote you just go 24hr all out - swing 10x an hour. Get it all done in one day. (kidding.....)

[jdanger]

Day 1 recap time.

Ended the day with 1295 swings so.. ahead of schedule. Did 450 in the morning in about 35 minutes. Pretty much straight sets of 20. Tried to do a 10-20-30-40-50-40-30-20-10 scam and my morning baby grip quickly put the keebosh on that. Still broke it up sort of like that only the 40's turned into 2x20 with a quick break and 50 was 2x25.

PM session was a little sporadic and I really just tried to add some swings in whenever to boost my numbers while at the gym. I don't care if this is cheating, I'm a weightlifter dammit. I mixed in the 32kg bell for about 300 reps for some variation. I did do a proper session once everyone left the gym and played with a breathing ladder. Did 1-15-1 with all nose breathing and it was actually easier than I anticipated. Stretched that to about 25 minutes. Then did a few 20-15-10-5 sprints with minimal rest to actually challenge myself aerobically and pad my stats.

I also put on the gloves halfway through the pm swings. My main challenge right now is hand quality. I'm in severe danger of tearing and I didn't want to do that on day 1 so I gloved up.

Soreness wise I'm doing ok. Back is fine. Some pretty gnarly muscle soreness in the upper back but nothings tight and things are cracking so it's all good. Glutes and hams sorta pissed but not as bad as I expected. Could be a DOMS situation so that'll be interesting tomorrow in light of today's work to come.

[ETFnerd]

off to a crackin' start bro...

[Ghost]

I've never used a kettlebell before, but this sounds like insanity.

[K Po]

Nice work man. And thanks for putting another [possibly bad] idea in my head with this whole 10,000 swings in 10 days challenge.

[jdanger]

Thanks!

Day 2

Didn't feel like getting out of bed this morning so I skipped the morning session. Soreness got pretty intense throughout the day but nothing too bad. Came home and busted out all 1,000 in about 75 minutes. As out of shape as I'm in I'm happy with it. Fatigue is a definite problem. Glutes felt weak so I started inching towards the back swing on a couple sets but was able to notice and correct it. Hand quality is still the main problem. I can swing through fatigue but it's getting to the point where holding onto the bell for anything longer than 20-25 reps is torture. Haven't torn yet but the calluses are hyuge. Going to start soaking them and hopefully file them down a bit but the thought of doing that while they are full of fluid is too much for wimpy old me to handle heh.

Here's the workout, easy to copy over since it was all one session and not a bunch of stuff all day. Everything was 28kg today.

4x25

2x20-15-10-5

20x10 reps/10s rest

4x20-10-20

10x15-10-5

4x25

Kept the rest at a minimum in the sequences, just enough to shake out the hands and reset. Rest between them was long enough to get some water and figure out the next thing to do as I was making it up on the fly. You can see I'm a fan of small sets and frequent rest. What up strength bias?

Total after two days is 2295.

[azsf]

good work mate, off to an awesome start. keep it up!

[This is Seth]

Did you do your pinch tests beforehand? Are you just waiting to post all the stats at the end?

Good luck tomorrow, are you expecting to hit the wall at the third or fourth day.

[Hermione Gainser]

I can't believe I missed a Jdanger thread!

You, sir, are nuts. But a lazy J is a weird J. So keep swingin', homeboy.

[Raincloak]

Assuming a burpee takes you 4 seconds, you can do 15/minute, and doing 1,000 of them would take you 67 minutes, assuming you could hold the pace. Which you couldn't. Nobody sane could keep that up for an hour. You could perhaps manage 11 rounds of 7 minutes each, spaced throughout the day. You'd need to keep that up for 10 days in a row to do 10,000 of them. Which would take you about 11 or 12 hours total.

Sounds pretty silly to me, if not masochistic. But whatever floats your boat. I hear spezzy did 1,000 burpees on the 4th of July or something once.

edit: oh nevermind, spezz already commented. There you go, right?

[nightlight]

You and me both. This sounds like a PvP in the making.

you're on. but can we do it during the next challenge cycle?

[jdanger]

Did you do your pinch tests beforehand? Are you just waiting to post all the stats at the end?

Good luck tomorrow, are you expecting to hit the wall at the third or fourth day.

Thanks. I've honestly already hit the wall. The question that remains is how long my hands will hold out without tearing. Even yesterday's workout was the last thing I wanted to do but I think condensing it all into one session was the way to go. Settle in with the bell and commit to not leaving until all the work is done. I think this will be the way I handle it most days from now on.

I did and just forgot to post them. Weighed in at 178.8lb and had a 12mm iliac skinfold (Accu-measure) which translates to ~14.6% BF for a LBM of 152.7lb and 26.1lb of helpless pudge.

[ETFnerd]

lately i've been challenging the amount of time i need for daily recovery running every day... sleep and quality rest always factor into this but i'm hitting a patch of diminishing returns these days and am rethinking my running volume...

for this experiment, i don't think it's the ability to do a lot of swings that is being tested as much as our capacity to train hard... maybe to your limit and recover to do it again the next day like staci said... it reminds me of those special forces trainig sessions where they have you do a series of activities for 50 hours strainght to weed out the mentally weak... in interviews of navy seals who've gone through 50 straight hours of activity... they say that their mind always finds another gear to keep it going...

[Jcannon98188]

lately i've been challenging the amount of time i need for daily recovery running every day... sleep and quality rest always factor into this but i'm hitting a patch of diminishing returns these days and am rethinking my running volume...

for this experiment, i don't think it's the ability to do a lot of swings that is being tested as much as our capacity to train hard... maybe to your limit and recover to do it again the next day like staci said... it reminds me of those special forces trainig sessions where they have you do a series of activities for 50 hours strainght to weed out the mentally weak... in interviews of navy seals who've gone through 50 straight hours of activity... they say that their mind always finds another gear to keep it going...

It sounds like one of those "break you down to build you back up" sort of things. I like it, My dad made a Kettlebell out of some metal pipes and some weights on the end. I might have to try this challenge out. Just to see how far I can go.

[jdanger]

Day 3 - The Reckoning

I won't lie. Today got a little out of control. Started with me wanting to get a little strength in then it sorta.. escalated. Typing this while drinking giant protein smoothie because I can't get out of my computer chair to even shower yet. Well, here it is.

Workout

10 Rounds of:

• 2x Front Squat (120kg)
  
• 20x KB Swing (28kg)
  

10 Rounds of:

• 3x Push press (60kg)
  
• 20x KB Swing (28kg)
  

10 Rounds of:

• 4x KB Thruster (2x16kg)
  
• 20x KB Swing (28kg)
  

10 Rounds of:

• Prowler (+100kg) x 50m
  
• 20x KB Swing (28kg)
  

10 Rounds of:

• 6x Pushups
  
• 20x KB Swing (28kg)
  

No problem. Day 3 total 1,000. Total after three: 3295. Goodnight America.

Oh, and, if you ever find yourself thinking "hey why don't I prowler" during something like this just kill yourself. It isn't worth it.

[Loren Wade]

"no problem"

...

!?!?!?

[spezzy]

Yeah unfortunately my training has tanked over the last few months so I'm really not actively pursuing any goals other than to try to maintain what I can. I'd normally not interfere with regular training for something like this but alas, it came along at just the right time. It's the kick in the pants I severely need right now.

And yeah, burpees would be tough and I don't think many people could pull it off without not insignificant problems. The pushup piece alone is going to smoke people. There are a lot of small muscles doing a lot of work that aren't going to be happy about that sort of volume at that frequency. Not to mention the potential for other overuse/strain issues is off the charts. Think about how many people go worming in and out of the bottom of a burpee with wild hips, hyper extended spines in and often back into flexion on the way out. Not great doing 100 that way, let alone 10,000 in 10 days.

For those reasons alone I'd consider something like a thruster a safer choice. It's still going to have a little bit of the first sort of issue with the repeated overhead stuff but you get the obvious boost from the hip action so the upper body musculature takes on more of a stabilization role rather than mobilization (in this context meaning generate motion).. just like a regular swing. Plus the loads we are dealing with at that volume are going to be less than that involved in the pushup piece of a burpee. A good thruster will also maintain a stable spine (just like a good swing) which I would consider the primary importance when dealing with this high of volume.

To narrow down my broad statement above in response to ETF you want big amplitude, compound movements where the primary movers are your hips and you're able to maintain a stable spine through each repetition. The swing is pretty much made to fit this definition, hence it's a smart choice for something so stupid.

With this reasoning it also becomes apparent why attempting this with an overhead, CF style swing wouldn't be the greatest idea.

No, my shoulders and calves were smoked from doing it (not to mention I did mine in muddy grass, which was even stupider, because I was sliding). I actually have it on tape but don't want to look at it because theres no way my form was good - that was a year ago before I even had decent flexibility so I was squatting on every one. stupid, stupid. (I'm considering doing it again though, but not for 10k in 10 days)

Assuming a burpee takes you 4 seconds, you can do 15/minute, and doing 1,000 of them would take you 67 minutes, assuming you could hold the pace. Which you couldn't. Nobody sane could keep that up for an hour. You could perhaps manage 11 rounds of 7 minutes each, spaced throughout the day. You'd need to keep that up for 10 days in a row to do 10,000 of them. Which would take you about 11 or 12 hours total.

Sounds pretty silly to me, if not masochistic. But whatever floats your boat. I hear spezzy did 1,000 burpees on the 4th of July or something once.

edit: oh nevermind, spezz already commented. There you go, right?

Some people can do 30-40 a minute, but obviously couldnt hold that pace. I believe one of the top crossfitters did his in about 80 minutes. I took 2 hours, in sets of 10, trying to not be stupid and overdo it.

And yeah, it's mental after 500. The only reason to do it is to say you've done it. Though I'm thinking of doing it again for charity.

This kettlebell thing looks awesome though.

[spezzy]

Day 3 - The Reckoning

I won't lie. Today got a little out of control. Started with me wanting to get a little strength in then it sorta.. escalated. Typing this while drinking giant protein smoothie because I can't get out of my computer chair to even shower yet. Well, here it is.

Workout

10 Rounds of:

• 2x Front Squat (120kg)

• 20x KB Swing (28kg)

10 Rounds of:

• 3x Push press (60kg)

• 20x KB Swing (28kg)

10 Rounds of:

• 4x KB Thruster (2x16kg)

• 20x KB Swing (28kg)

10 Rounds of:

• Prowler (+100kg) x 50m

• 20x KB Swing (28kg)

10 Rounds of:

• 6x Pushups

• 20x KB Swing (28kg)

No problem. Day 3 total 1,000. Total after three: 3295. Goodnight America.

Oh, and, if you ever find yourself thinking "hey why don't I prowler" during something like this just kill yourself. It isn't worth it.

I like it. insane. but I like it.