An observation

[This is Seth]

@JDanger - I like that parallel.

@ScienceGuy - I also like lifting bears.

[Raikas]

Yeah, one is going to cost more. It's also probably going to be worth it.

Eh, I think the whole point is that what defines "worth it" is so individual that the distinctions don't really matter. A person who isn't interested in CF/group fitness/access to a treadmill is never going to consider the cost (be it $250, $150 or $10) to be "worth it", just like a person who doesn't watch TV won't see any worth to the different specialty bundles even though a fan of spectator sports or documentaries might make a distinction between paying extra for sports or movie channels.

[Caitriona]

I'm a big fan of this conversations. I'm on team How You Spend Your Money Is Your Own Business. Personally, we've given up cable years ago and don't miss it, and I'm on a $20/month gym membership. But I don't judge people who spend more, especially if it's for something that's good for them. If you work out at home with sandbags you made? Awesome! If you pay a lot for a gym membership because that's the way you'll get off your ass, or because you want the equipment, or the social setting? Also awesome! My husband (who is not really ever a big spender) just got a Nike Fuelband and absolutely acknowledges that it's overpriced and a silly gadget, but it motivates him to actually get up and be active, and that's well worth the price.

In closing: yay everyone?

[jdanger]

Eh, I think the whole point is that what defines "worth it" is so individual that the distinctions don't really matter. A person who isn't interested in CF/group fitness/access to a treadmill is never going to consider the cost (be it $250, $150 or $10) to be "worth it", just like a person who doesn't watch TV won't see any worth to the different specialty bundles even though a fan of spectator sports or documentaries might make a distinction between paying extra for sports or movie channels.

Of course what's worth it to an individual is subjective. What isn't subjective is the fact that we aren't comparing apples to apples when we're talking about a regular gym membership vs participating in a well run CF program. One inherently contains more objective value, hence the higher price point. Properly planning and coaching a well designed CF takes a lot of time and energy, should people do all of that for free so they can compete with the chrome 'n tones on price?

[concretecavewoman]

I gave up cable over 5 Years ago. There are other options for entertainment for me and better use for my time and money.

Hell yes. I haven't paid a cable bill in at least 4 years and I don't regret a single minute that I HAVEN'T spent watching TV (don't really watch Hulu or other forms of webTV either).

As far as spending goes, it all boils down to priorities. Who really cares what other people spend their money on anyway? Unless it's like... a giant trebuchet to hurl dog turds into your neighbor's backyard or something else that would genuinely impact the said neighbor-person.

For instance, I spend an ungodly amount on groceries, thanks to buying organic/grass-fed/free-range/read to/well-educated animals direct from farms and getting my vegetables from the farmers' market. Seriously, you could feed a family of 12 on Walmart food for what I spend on myself in a month. But whose business is that anyway? I get flack about it from friends/family but I don't care, 'cause I'm healthier .

I'm a big fan of this conversations. I'm on team How You Spend Your Money Is Your Own Business. Personally, we've given up cable years ago and don't miss it, and I'm on a $20/month gym membership. But I don't judge people who spend more, especially if it's for something that's good for them. If you work out at home with sandbags you made? Awesome! If you pay a lot for a gym membership because that's the way you'll get off your ass, or because you want the equipment, or the social setting? Also awesome! My husband (who is not really ever a big spender) just got a Nike Fuelband and absolutely acknowledges that it's overpriced and a silly gadget, but it motivates him to actually get up and be active, and that's well worth the price.

Concur.

[AceInMySleeve]

I'm a big fan of this conversations. I'm on team How You Spend Your Money Is Your Own Business. Personally, we've given up cable years ago and don't miss it, and I'm on a $20/month gym membership. But I don't judge people who spend more, especially if it's for something that's good for them. If you work out at home with sandbags you made? Awesome! If you pay a lot for a gym membership because that's the way you'll get off your ass, or because you want the equipment, or the social setting? Also awesome! My husband (who is not really ever a big spender) just got a Nike Fuelband and absolutely acknowledges that it's overpriced and a silly gadget, but it motivates him to actually get up and be active, and that's well worth the price.

In closing: yay everyone?

I'm just going to agree with this. Whatever it takes to get somebody off the couch and doing SOMETHING. I had a really tough time motivating myself to go/join a gym, so I prepaid a 6-month fairly expensive membership at new years and felt obligated to get my money's worth. Now, even after that's expired, its habit, so it was more than worth it to me. Crossfit is $200/month (I live in Manhattan, it's stupid expensive for everything), which is about twice what a normal gym membership is.

Everybody has a hobby that seems dumb to the majority of the rest of the world that they sink a ton of time/money into, more power to you if it happens to be something that gets you in shape.

[The Tin Man]

I don't think that's unique to Crossfit (or gym/fitness spending in general), I think that's just one of those comments that everyone makes regarding any hobby that they don't share ("You spend HOW MUCH on concerts/theatre tickets/guitars/dolls/comics/antiques/duck decoys/shoes/cars/etc! You're crazy!").

This. 100%.

Ain't nobody messes with my duck decoys.

[Barmacral]

I haven't paid for cable tv service in years and don't miss it a bit. I recently picked up netflix for the gf, and for the 8 dollars a month it is I'll probably just keep it since I can access it using my xbox or playstation and am paying for the internet connection regardless.

As for gyms, fencing or martial arts are worth the cost for me, but a regular gym is a waste of my money since I'm too inconsistent. Right now though I'm not paying for any gym, doing pure body weight workouts, and amongst my friends I am something of an anomaly.

[caponerd48]

I agree, interesting points all around. As for me, I pay $80 a month for capoeira classes and 0 for cable. One is important to me, and I feel like I get an experience learning under an instruction of an expert (and at this point a friend, as I have been her student for nearly 7 years) and with my companions that I could never approximate while training alone. That said, I believe that people in general are quick to judge someone for any number of reasons, but as khenning mentioned here getting over that judgement is just part of becoming the happiest person you can be.

On an unrelated note: Knightwatch, that is a powerful signature you have. I have never seen it in latin before.

[notanartmajor]

@JDanger - I like that parallel.

@ScienceGuy - I also like lifting bears.

Dude you're really pigeon-holing yourself just lifting bears. Are you even lifting all types of bears in all the appropriate rep schemes? What if you have to lift a Fennec or a Red Panda? Truly fit people lift everything in the Caniformia suborder, and for $650 a week we can show you how....

[Raikas]

Of course what's worth it to an individual is subjective. What isn't subjective is the fact that we aren't comparing apples to apples when we're talking about a regular gym membership vs participating in a well run CF program. One inherently contains more objective value, hence the higher price point. Properly planning and coaching a well designed CF takes a lot of time and energy, should people do all of that for free so they can compete with the chrome 'n tones on price?

No, but I also don't think that (for the most part) they really are in competition with each other - the target markets may overlap, but not by all that much. And when it comes to the whole social judgement issue I think it's less that they can't see the differences in operating costs and more that they aren't in the target market and thus wouldn't be getting what they wanted either way.

I totally agree that it's good for someone who falls into that overlap to take those things into consideration. I just don't think those casual conversations about waste/worth are really about shock over operating costs as much as they are shock over discovering that a friend/coworker/random person has different priorities in general.

I think we all agree that to someone who runs outside, a $10/month gym membership isn't worth it, while to someone who feels that $10 gym is a good value might consider a $50/month gym with classes a poor value, while the person taking those classes might think that a CF box that costs $200/month isn't worth it. And on the other side, someone who spends $250/month on a place with personal instruction and even more specialized equipment (think of some of the elite diving or ski clubs) might think those lower price places aren't worth it because they don't have a hill or a pool.

Obviously you're right that the maintenance costs of the public park vs. the $10, $50 and $200+ gyms increase relative to their maintenance costs, but it just isn't necessarily relevant in a discussion of conversations that start with "It costs how much? You're crazy!", because the person saying that may not care about the extra instruction just like you may not care that your gym doesn't have a diving pool.

To go with the TV example, there's a solid reason that it costs more to have specialty channels rather than basic cable, but a person who doesn't watch TV is going to think you're crazy either way - that's just the nature of the beast.

[---]

I'm with shortstuff. I only pay for TV for safety reasons. Because the alternative is me climbing the pole outside and splicing wires, and that's not safe.

I lul'd.

Just throwing something out there about about Internet. It actually can be pretty vital for people who work from home--like me, fair disclosure. Technically yes, I could go without home Internet access and, say, camp out in coffee shops and restaurants all day. However, I could also technically go without hot water, but no one would suggest I do so. So in that specialized case, I can get behind having Internet be considered as a necessity.

[Avistew]

The only thing that annoys me if when the people who spend all that money complain that they're poor. I live on 400 bucks a month, most of that goes towards rent, and people earning ten times as much still have the guts to ask me for money.

Spend it all you want but then don't come to me complaining or asking me to bail you out.

[lemongranita]

The thing that amuses me is when people ask why I spend so much on skating: "when you're never going to be Olympic champion".

I mean, it's not a cheap hobby. But ice time is probably similar cost to gym membership and my coach costs not that much more than my husband's personal trainer and no one asks him why bother if he's not going to make TeamGB for lifting!! The idea that I should give up and spend the money on home furnishings because I'm too old to become the best in the world seems bizarre.

Mind you, the looks when people skating in death wellies on public sessions ask me what my skates cost are always priceless, especially when I then tell them that's just the boots, the blades are bought separately. See: http://www.puckstop.com/acatalog/Jackson_Premiere_DJ2500_-_Boot_Only.html

(Of course, I do then tell them my first pair were £20 on eBay and saw me through to my first jump)

[GoToTheGround]

Spend money on what you enjoy, whatever that may be. In the context of gyms I think JDangers point is very important to consider.

I think a lot of us for whom fitness/sport is a significant influencing factor in our lifestyles just apply our expenses a little different to the convention. Yes, I may pay more for food on a weekly basis because I eat well and I may spend money on classes/gym equip etc. What I am then probably not doing is going out every weekend and blowing £100 on booze etc. I don't really care where others spend their money, but I know I'm channeling mine into areas of my life that will hopefully continue to improve me and my enjoyment in life.

For various reasons I personally am in the very fortunate position of only having to pay for one of the several gyms/classes etc I go to which saves me about £1000/Year.

The only gym I have to pay for is the place where I lift...and it's a measly £25/month...which at the current rate I have used it this month works out at about £0.78 per session...I'd say that's pretty freaking good! ;-)

[Raikas]

Just throwing something out there about about Internet. It actually can be pretty vital for people who work from home--like me, fair disclosure. Technically yes, I could go without home Internet access and, say, camp out in coffee shops and restaurants all day. However, I could also technically go without hot water, but no one would suggest I do so. So in that specialized case, I can get behind having Internet be considered as a necessity.

I think people shouldn't matter whether it's a necessity - I work from home as well, but if my neighbour just uses his home connection to waste time playing bad games and chatting on message boards they shouldn't be made to feel like they have to put up a defense for it just because some random other person thinks it's a waste of money.

Spend money on what you enjoy, whatever that may be.

Words to live by! What's the point of a fun budget otherwise, right?

The only thing that annoys me if when the people who spend all that money complain that they're poor.

Overspending is a whole other animal, isn't it? I'm totally in favour with raising an eyebrow at people who spend everything they earn (or more than they earn) - although I suppose as long as it's not a partner/parent/child/person with financial ties to me it's still not really my business.

[jdanger]

but it just isn't necessarily relevant in a discussion of conversations that start with "It costs how much? You're crazy!", because the person saying that may not care about the extra instruction just like you may not care that your gym doesn't have a diving pool.

I hear ya for the most part but I disagree with this. This was actually the sentiment earlier in the thread I was mainly addressing. Whether or not a person cares is irrelevant if they aren't even aware there's a difference. I mean how do we know if they care or not if they aren't aware of all the options? You'd be surprised how many people have that exact reaction to the price point only to become long term members at quality gyms. For every person who putz's around happily on treadmills for $10/month there's one who's sick of doing the same things for years and not getting results. Raise that person's level of understanding and show them the value and suddenly they not only care about something they didn't even know about previously, they're often bummed they didn't know about it years before. I can't count the number of times I've heard the if only I had known line.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

When talking about gym memberships with people the fallacy is equating paying for access to equipment to well planned and instructed group training. Some people pay $10/month to watch the news on a treadmill while others pay three times the average CF rate for personal training. To each their own but when discussing it with people it is a distinction that should be made. Some people see the value in paying $150/month for something in between (group training).

Imagine you're choosing a school for your kid. One option only gives your kid access to the library and no planned curriculum or instruction. The other option includes curriculum and classroom instruction. Yeah, one is going to cost more. It's also probably going to be worth it.

This is what I was going to write, down to the comparsion to different school systems.

[---]

I think people shouldn't matter whether it's a necessity - I work from home as well, but if my neighbour just uses his home connection to waste time playing bad games and chatting on message boards they shouldn't be made to feel like they have to put up a defense for it just because some random other person thinks it's a waste of money.

Fair enough. I guess I threw that out there in the interest of having a good reply ready--because like it or not, we do generally want to have some sort of an answer to those questions, be it snarky comments or serious replies. YMMV. *shrugs*

[Raikas]

Fair enough. I guess I threw that out there in the interest of having a good reply ready--because like it or not, we do generally want to have some sort of an answer to those questions, be it snarky comments or serious replies. YMMV. *shrugs*

Yeah, I get that. Weirdly enough, I've just seen the same discussion pop up on two hobby community boards in the past week as well (in terms of people talking about non-hobby friends calling them wasteful or materialistic and so on), so I'm probably a bit too far on the "Just do what you want! Who cares?" side right now than I'd normally be. I'd definitely be making the same point that you did if I were getting the accusation in real life!

[thatgirljj]

I dunno... I pay ridiculous money for good quality circus instruction. You know why? Because I could kill or seriously maim myself doing it on my own (plus I'd never be able to make decent progress). No one I know really gives me shit about it, but they always balk at the price when I suggest taking a class. But, you know, I learn from people who've spent a lifetime learning to perform safely and beautifully (but mostly SAFELY). It's my main hobby and I deeply love it. I don't knit anymore (and you wouldn't believe what I've spent on yarn in the past), my cousin fixes up vintage cars that costs a dime or two, and I know folks who've got TRULY expensive hobbies like hang gliding or boating.

I've lived without cable. I've worked out without fitness instruction. And if it was a choice between those things and putting healthy food in my family's mouth, we would be watching network TV and taking a family jog down at the high school track so I could put real food on the table. But it's not that choice in my life right now... I can afford to have this as a hobby, so I do.

-jj

[Mony]

I look at it like this: I am investing big bucks in myself. Whether it's organic/grassfed food, gym memberships, vitamins or supps, whatever your thing is... you are putting money into your personal improvement, and that is an investment that is always worth the price. I don't think I personally know a lot of people who commit to that. Perhaps your lifestyle just highlights the fact that those other people are not investing in themselves or taking care of their health, and they don't like that so much. Good on ya for sticking with Crossfit and doing it for YOU!

As for ditching cable: I am THIS CLOSE to cutting the literal cord and wondering what sort of set-up you cable-free folks have. Anyone tried Roku? Just wondering

[andygates]

It's not even unique to duck decoys. Bicycles! The non-bikey assumes they're £100 toys and gets a bit startled when I recommend a nice £650 ride. You get really bored of the reaction to that after a few years of wrenching.

Generally: What you're into is something you probably understand deeply, and so you know the difference and you appreciate the extra you get with a big spend. Be that duck decoys, gym membership, cable, gadgets, or bikes. Or cake.

[Arbite]

I once had a co-worker blow his mind over what I paid for my car and insurance per month (600 a month note plus 200 a month in insurance and gas for a 2009 Mustang GT).

He couldn't wrap his head around the fact that the 800 dollar a month cost to drive a car that I absolutely loved was totally worth it to me. I got 800 a month or more out of the sheer enjoyment and pleasure of driving that car.

It comes down to if you feel your money is being well spent. My wife had no qualms about it because she knew how much I loved driving it and that we could afford it.

I can't wrap my head around the fact that you got a Mustang. I'd take an M3 any day of the week over a Mustang, they can actually turn corners.

I hope you got the Supercharged 5.4 in a manual.

But yes, hobbies are expensive. My friends brains exploded when I told them how much my vinyl collection was worth. Still, they finally understood why I didn't let them touch my records.