LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Thrillho]

It may not be attempted  oppression on your part: but it is them enforcinga truth about themselves. In the same way that you would be firm about someone calling you by your correct name (i.e. if you are Alex, and I kept calling you John..). 

 

Don't get me wrong, if you KEEP doing it wrong, after they've explained it to you, then you're being a dick*.  But if they look 100% female, and you know nothing about them, and the first time you gender-pronoun them you refer to them as "she" when they are in fact a "he", I think the first time can be forgiven. But that's just me.  It seems far worse to me to start EVERY new interpersonal relationship, even if it's only going to be a one-time meeting with small-talk, with "So are you a boy or a girl?"

 

 

* or other sex-genital deprecation...

[Candace Koller]

Placeholder post - im gonna come back to this when i dont have to use my phone to write out a proper reply.

Short version - being trans isnt a choice. Transition is about as much a choice as homosexual men choosing to actually have sex with other men. Sure they could not, but that would be denying an integral part of their identity and personhood.

 

EDIT: Just saw the post above mine and realized ^this probably was directed at that.

 

I didn't mean to imply it was a choice and I apologize if that is how it sounded. I'm trying to understand the nature of it, not the why. There is so much misunderstanding out there and I'd like to correct as much of it in me as I can so that I won't risk unintentionally spreading falsehoods in an attempt to foster better acceptance with those who are hostile. Being in a primarily Christian environment I commonly come across people who are downright militant to anyone in the gender/sexual minority and I do everything I can to get that to stop. It helps no one to bash people over the head because they are different and some people are so blind or have their heads so far up their asses that they can't see that and actually think it does good. I can't see it and stand by doing nothing.

 

 

As a side note i really dislike being a spokesperson for trans folk - but there seems to be a pretty major lacking in representation. Anyway, these posts (and similar ones elsewhere on nf) are not inclusive of all trans people and just show the experiences and attitudes common amongst my trans friends.

 

I hope I haven't offended you in any way and I certainly understand not wanting to constantly have to explain yourself to people.

[Bekah]

EDIT: Reply no longer needed

but since I am here

(that was top of the page in Google Images for Rainbows, FYI)

[Thrillho]

Really? Mine was this.

 

[Candace Koller]

I got this.

[ColoQ]

Don't get me wrong, if you KEEP doing it wrong, after they've explained it to you, then you're being a dick*.  But if they look 100% female, and you know nothing about them, and the first time you gender-pronoun them you refer to them as "she" when they are in fact a "he", I think the first time can be forgiven. But that's just me.  It seems far worse to me to start EVERY new interpersonal relationship, even if it's only going to be a one-time meeting with small-talk, with "So are you a boy or a girl?"

 

 

* or other sex-genital deprecation...

 

Valid point. You are right: as with so many things in life, its about paying attention to myriad hundreds of cues, that inform how you socialize. 

[Frost of the Gloaming]

Man mine is tame in comparison

 

[ColoQ]

I got this.

...

I like mine better 

[ColoQ]

Double-post dance...  

[Bekah]

[Frost of the Gloaming]

Oh double rainbow

[Artinum]

Bekah, I recognise Nyan Cat there and one of the MLP crowd (sorry, no idea what their names are) but the other two are unknown to me. Is one of them a robot unicorn?

[Thrillho]

Lady Rainicorn and Robot Unicorn. 

[Terinatum]

Thanks guys and gals, I've loved reading through this forum posting. I didn't realise the subject area was so complicated. For me, I'm a gay english lad, whose sexuality is part of the picture, but not the whole picture. I want to get fit and I play computer games. My problem, I don't know where to start...

I'm taking your ellipses (...) as a statement you might what someone to comment on. So...

 

You are more than welcome to 'start' here! Starting can be hard to define. I would say you've already started. When we truly consider the desire for change, I believe we are on the path. When we make a few starts; false, temporary or failed, I believe we are on the path. If we spend time planning and it turns into 'collecting underpants,' you guessed it, I believe we are on the path. When you turn your back on your desires and say screw it, that's when we step off the path. The important part for me, is to remember the path isn't miles away. All I have to do is let myself feel the desire for being fit and the path appears before me... again, and again.

 

Advice: pick one small thing you'd like to change. Give yourself a time limit to get it done. Give yourself say 30 days or so. Track it in a positive way. No x's for days not done. Only exclamation points for days that included an attempt and two exclamation points for a successful day. If it doesn't work that well, no worries. Pick something different to work on or change how you are attempting the change. The acts we take when we work on change are the best acts we can do. Successful or not. Frustrating or exhilarating. NF Rebels will never judge you or belittle you for any reason. If someone does, they aren't being very good rebels and we pound that behavior into the ground quickly and decisively.

 

Best of luck, and hope to see you around here. Either way, I hope you come to realize your desires for fitness and awesome game playing!

 

Love your name, btw!

[Terinatum]

 

from my google search to you, enjoy.

[Hit]

 

I hope I haven't offended you in any way and I certainly understand not wanting to constantly have to explain yourself to people.

 

i dont have to constantly explain myself to people. in fact, i rarely have to explain myself at all. I rock in, say "howdy im hitlionsoul, im a girl from perth nice to meet ya" and conversation continues normally. what i do find myself explaining, often, is that trans people exist and here's how to not be an asshole to them. 

 

unless they're my ex, who i will allow all the bad things to happen too. even though they are probably the main reason im aware of most of this stuff.

 

 

I'm trying to understand the nature of it, not the why.

 

i'm going to move on from the posts from last night and try to answer this. once again, not true of all trans people this is just from the conversations ive had with my friends who also happen to be trans.

 

it all starts with gender dysphoria - more or less being unhappy with your gender. this manifests in certain ways, from being shitty about your "role" in society as Candace put it earlier, to feeling hectic levels of discomfort with your secondary or primary sex characteristics. it's a spectrum, more or less. but lets take those two end states as a primer.

 

unhappy with gender role - are people who more or less push for social acceptance of behaviours. you could say women marines and stay at home dads to be people in this category. they basically reject gender norms of what a man or woman does and instead does what they feel is right for them. often these people are highly visible, and have to own their behaviour in public spaces, but they want to be seen as the person they are and for that a person like them to be doing that thing is okay.

 

so the thing they want to change is not  themselves, but the expectations of our society. ie) a man wearing a dress who wants it to be okay for men to wear dresses and doesn't want to be seen as a woman or as wearing "womens" clothes. 

 

unhappy with body - these people generally push for change in themselves. the way they feel about themselves and the body they have are not congruent, and they often seek to change this in various ways. a common way is via the way they dress; wearing the clothes that align with the gender they see themselves as and trying to be seen by others as belonging to that gender.

 

some also "transition", a process by which a person begins to live and present 100% as the gender they feel they are. this can be achieved through medical and surgical means, or it can be purely social.

 

can people be both? - yes. as an example: some transwomen want to transition fully via medical and surgical methods to living 100% as female and still maintain masculine gender roles such as being a 'father' to their children, taking up 'traditionally masculine' sports or activities, or just generally associating more with men. 

 

what about choice? - the first choice in all this comes from identifying the cause of ones dysphoria and finding methods with which to deal with it. the second comes from choosing to be public about it or "stealth". Most trans people want to blend (or pass) with the gender they identity as. precisely so they dont have to deal with the problems of a largely transphobic society. others, choose to be public about their transitions to be role models for other people struggling with gender dysphoria and to help normalize it. 

 

the not choices - you dont choose to have dysphoria. how you deal with it is technically a "choice", but theres a reason why 41% of trans people attempt suicide prior to transition. secondly, you dont choose if you blend/pass or not. this is often described as "swimming in an ocean of shit". trans people who dont blend/pass are often described as being "visibly trans", and they bear the brunt of the bullshit that is society. they deal  with misgendering, humiliation, and are at high risk of assault in most areas of society. they often face discrimination at work as well, which is a nice way of putting the boot in.

 

tldr choice and taking one for the team - some people choose to 'take one for the team' and be public about their history, many don't. others have that choice thrust upon them because they are not accepted outright for the gender they seem themselves as being.

 

 

aaand breathe. any questions?

[Hit]

also apologies for shit grammar / spelling. deal with it.

[SevenofSeven]

May I just add, that not all female marines and stay at home Dads fall into the first category. Situation, money, partner, or any number of reasons may dictate these chosen roles.

[Hit]

 

 

not all female marines and stay at home Dads fall into the first category

if we go down the "not all ..." route we'll be here forever. but i used them as examples because they show how people break common societal roles regularly. its not an example of "being trans", it's an example of refusing to be defined by your assigned gender. 

[GamingPlenty]

my post is nothing to do with the trans topic but Candace Kollers post reminded me about it.

 

when i was little and i went to sleep i used to dream i was a boy. i used to write my own stories and make myself a boy in them. it was partly my sexuality (you can't like girls unless you're a boy) but mostly something else equally as stupid. i like this quote from Tatiana Maslany on the subject.

 

"As a kid, I wanted to be a boy because I equated that with strength. There’s a problem with that. It’s only growing into my own womanhood how warped that is that I was attributing strength to male qualities."

[Thrillho]

Had a fairly long conversation with my daughters last night, after one of them pointed out that a form at their summer camp had check boxes for "Male", "Female" or "Other".  That led to a LOT of questions, which they were generally pretty receptive of the answers. 

[Hit]

Kids are rad like that

[Thrillho]

Kids are rad like that

 

My older girl still things that trans is 'weird, why would you do that?' but said it makes sense, since her younger sister insisted she was a boy for the entire age of 3. I just explained 'well, some people still feel that way when they're grownups'. 

[Frost of the Gloaming]

It always felt somewhat freeing when I could check the other box, "Men" as they would put it were Brutes to me that made my life a living hell, so whenever I got a chance to check "other" I did, because I never felt like I was one of them.

[Bekah]

It always felt somewhat freeing when I could check the other box, "Men" as they would put it were Brutes to me that made my life a living hell, so whenever I got a chance to check "other" I did, because I never felt like I was one of them.

I wish there was an other box for whether or not we were human.