Returning to university after several years in the "real world"

[illc]

Hi All, I'm coming to realize that I've pursued my current job about as far as is beneficial to me and could benefit from leveling up my educational credentials to open some new opportunities. A common situation, no? yeah, yeah, I know this isn't as fun a post as most here in "The Pub".

I work as a field team lead and systems operator for a survey and mapping company. Basically I roam North America (sometimes Central America and Australia too, actually) planning and carrying out aerial survey operations. Sometimes this has me doing logistics, data processing and QA/QC of digital imagery and lidar from a motel room office, sometimes it has me raining lasers down upon the earth from a helicopter or small plane. It's an occupation that makes for great cocktail conversation - I've been thinking I should make one of those "What people think I do" meme photo sets. On the flip side, I travel for about 75% of the year, often leaving home on 48 hours notice or less, often to podunk little towns and when I get there it's a mad see-saw of 16 hour workdays and then totally unoccupied ones playing "hurry up and wait" with clients, contractors, etc.. Additionally, as it's a medium-cap corporate gig my role is fairly siloed intellectually. I got into GIS/geomatics/geospatial wanting to do data analysis, problem solving and decision support around urban and environmental issues but have followed a path far from that. I produce data and hand it to people who refine it into a saleable product and then our clients do the cool stuff with it. Right now for me this is a surefire path to burnout and lack of fulfillment. My employer's got little to no interest in supporting professional development, so it looks like this change may be a 100% independent undertaking that's going to involve me quitting this job.

My questions: Who's got experience getting into grad school after a prolonged period away from formal education? - Specifically a period away from education in which you were not innovating and learning easily describable skills. Even more specifically who's got experience crossing over into a field they don't have the strictly required formal educational background for? My credentials at the moment are a B.A. in International Development (a pastiche of economics, poli sci, anthropology and Spanish) from 2005 and an Ontario Graduate Certificate (roughly the equivalent of a US associates degree I think?) in Geographic Information Systems: Applications Specialization for 2007. I'm looking at a variety of Masters programs in Geography/Applied Geography/Geospatial Analysis. Knowing (or assuming?) that schools can be pretty picky at this level I haven't ruled out doing a whole second bachelors level geography degree, starting out by distance education so I can continue working for a bit and then transitioning to on-campus studies to make more personal contact with professors and network with peers, etc.. This is something I did a very bad job of during my previous studies.

If any of you have made this sort of transition in the past what did you do about references?

Thanks for any input. This is something I've been avoiding really digging into for a few months (maybe even a year) now so please feel free to ask me any questions. Your clarifications will likely help me clarify things for myself.

Cheers and thanks in advance!

[Saoirse]

My path doesn't resemble yours much, but i just wanted to offer a little support. I'm 27 with 3 kids and a mortgage (thankfully covered by hubby's job), and i'm finding myself in (undergrad) classes with kids 9 years younger, some of whom seem to think that not doing their homework is an effective way of saying "F-U" to "the man." anyway, good luck to you.

[illc]

Wow. Support to YOU Saoirse! I can imagine that's a wild dose of culture shock. Still, no doubt you've got the kind of real life experience that's going to lead you to get the most out of this back-to-school experience: Prioritizing and just getting it done!

[CyningaDena]

[DISCLAIMER]I've no special insight on the Canadian education system, so I might be giving you horrible advice.[/DISCLAIMER]

I used to teach creative writing at the university level, and students often had similar questions (can I get into X program with an English degree, can I get into English grad programs with Y unrelated degree). Unless you're looking to go into a professional program (like med school, dentistry, veterinary practice, basically anything related to the lab sciences) that has a specific undergrad "track," for most places in the States it doesn't make a lick of difference what your undergrad degree was in. Do you have one? Do you have a way to demonstrate that you can make good on your lack of formal education in that field (like a portfolio, work experience, publications, etc)? Awesome. Apply. What do you stand to lose? $50 for the application fee. Cancel Netflix and go to town.

The bulk of my experience is with students playing around in some variation of English programs, which are pretty flexible, but I would bet that with your mad experience, you'd have no problem applying for grad programs. If it's not precisely the field for which you originally studied, expect your first semester to kick your ass while you get caught up on some foundational stuff you missed as an undergrad, but after that I'd bet it's smooth sailing for you.

Regarding references: I didn't apply for grad school until 5 years after I finished my undergrad. When I went to apply, I sent a handwritten letter to my old advisor with (a) enough info to either remind her who I was or give her something to reliably fake, ( an update on what I'd been doing the past 5 years, and © a request that she write about my academic work and leadership in a recommendation letter. That sort of thing is just part of the job of being a professor. It comes with the office and awesome summer hours. Tap all of your old profs if you can track them down; there should be one or two who will step up.

Best of luck to you! That can be a huge, scary step, but I bet it'll pay off for you in spades. The older "non-traditional" students were always my favorite. So responsible!

[Saoirse]

Wow. Support to YOU Saoirse! I can imagine that's a wild dose of culture shock. Still, no doubt you've got the kind of real life experience that's going to lead you to get the most out of this back-to-school experience: Prioritizing and just getting it done!

well thank you. i hate to be cliche, but even as a really responsible 18 year old, i could not have gleaned as much from my education then as i am now. i'm also getting an interesting glimpse of "youth today" that i never had as an (oblivious) teen. it's also kind of fun bonding with the other non-trads over how old and uncool we are.

[illc]

Saoirse, it's hip to be square. Just don't start smoking to fit in with those young rebels (; ... the other kind of "rebels", not NF rebels.

CyningaDena, That's some very good advice. I've been assuming that I need to not just walk into the first class, but take that very first application step, with comprehensive knowledge of the whole field already and a crystal clear view of some earth shattering contribution I'll make to it. Oh perfectionism.

[jbbst13]

I am currently on class #2 of 10 for a Master's degree, and had a 14 year lapse between my undergrad and graduate studies. It's a different mind set, and is challenging at times when trying to balance everything. What I've found the most useful is my work experience. I'm not sure what requirements you'll find that you need, but for me, I was able to not take an entrance exam because I had over 5 years experience. My application and recommendation letters took longer to write then for the school to review it and accept me. That is a huge bonus you have!

My classes are all online so I can work from wherever I'm at and not miss a class. I will say that taking a course that's math intensive is a bit tougher online (sometimes I need to see a problem worked out, not just use this equation, some magic, and then the answer like most text books do) but it's working so far. There may be a school or two that has classes online that will help you get started.

I debated on and off for a few years about what to do about getting a graduate degree, but I'm glad I've finally started down the path. It's already helped me at work some, and as I said before, my work experiences have helped me in discussions and assignments.

Good luck!!!!

[KillerGriller]

CyningaDena, That's some very good advice. I've been assuming that I need to not just walk into the first class, but take that very first application step, with comprehensive knowledge of the whole field already and a crystal clear view of some earth shattering contribution I'll make to it. Oh perfectionism.

Speaking from experience, Canadian Universities are very reluctant to give you any sort of credit for life experience. I had to start at square one when pursuing my undergrad as an adult a few years ago despite working in the GIS industry for the past 10 years and having college schooling. Grad School MAY be a different game but the only way you'll find out is to contact a few Geography faculties/advisers at schools you're interested in attending.

[CyningaDena]

Speaking from experience, Canadian Universities are very reluctant to give you any sort of credit for life experience. I had to start at square one when pursuing my undergrad...

KG, it sounds like what you're talking about here is asking for course credit/waivers in light of work experience. As in, "Can I waive this lower-level class with X years of experience." Is that an accurate read? If so, that's a different scenario than applying for entry into a program. All schools are reluctant to give free passes from required courses, because it would mean anyone could walk in with 40 years of experience in some field and say, "Give me all the degrees." Professors who teach those required courses don't have the enrollment numbers when that's allowed, departments look skinnier, people start questioning the purpose of certain classes if there's a work-related exchange rate for them...it's just messy and so most schools discourage even trying by making it incredibly difficult.

[KillerGriller]

That's an accurate read, however I took all the required/core courses and was hoping to skip BS electives and fast-track my degree. Now I'm stuck taking filler just so I can make it to the next year and more (more interesting) core courses.

The other option I was hoping for was to be able skip the entry level courses and move into second year, which was denied.

Neither my 3 years of previous education or work experience counted for anything.

[CyningaDena]

Yup. That's both shitty and typical. Sorry to hear that you got caught in the cogs of the diploma machine, Killer. :comfort:

[illc]

Hmm .... so you're saying I might actually have to do some work? (;

Alrighty, I'd better start to do the work before the work and take my questions to the people with the specific and direct answers.

Thanks for the encouragement and the reality checks, folks.

[KillerGriller]

Yup. That's both shitty and typical. Sorry to hear that you got caught in the cogs of the diploma machine, Killer. :comfort:

No worries, a certain amount of this IS my fault (i.e. - not doing it when I was young and more mobile/malleable). Moving on.

Good Luck illc

[illc]

"younger ... mobile, malleable" for sure.

You moved from GIS into something else? How'd that go?

[KillerGriller]

No I'm still in GIS, but was/am (not sure right now) looking to get my degree to facilitate "moving up the ladder".

[gymell]

I don't have experience going back to school after being in the work force, but I do have experience switching from one academic field to another. In my case, I had a bachelor and masters degree in music, and initially switched to a MS in computer science. Since I didn't have a BS in Comp Sci, I managed to talk the department into admitting me provisionally, upon successful completion of some prerequisites. Look at the requirements for the program you're interested in, and talk with the department to see if you can go that route. You shouldn't have to complete another undergraduate degree since you already have one, even though it's another field. But it's something you'll definitely want to discuss with the department chair, and see if something can be worked out.

To continue my story, I hated the CS program I was in (not particularly good department at that school) so I decided to go back to music. Completed 1 year of a PhD in music theory (different school), then realized that I needed to get a real job. So then, I made yet another switch and went to the college of business for a masters in information systems. Once again, I didn't have any background in business, although by that point I had a bit of CS coursework. I was accepted into the program and had to take some basic business courses, but I managed to complete the degree in 2 years and it led to a pretty good career as a programmer (still doing it 14 years later!)