need help with balancing workouts with nutrition

[lisl_luvs_beer]

Ok- Here's my problem: I'm not getting anywhere and hit a wall

Facts: I do paleo 80% (almost a year), I am 47yo, 5'9, 137lbs, and work out crossfit 3x/week (since March) and Krav Maga 2x/week (6 years). I ride two horses 5 times a week for about an hour each, and work on the farm Saturdays and Sundays doing whatever needs to get done- fixing driveway, going to a horse show, building a retaining wall, landscaping, about anything, but I’m pretty much moving for at least 7 hours each day.

I'm stuck at about 26% body fat - I measure every Friday 5am and I’m 15% in my arms, 17% belly, and 29% thigh. My scale gives me a reading of 26%. Readings have been the same for the last month. My thighs are the problem I think- everything else I am ok with and am happy with the tone. I am stuck in my lifts and have hit plateaus with my strength- some things I am better at- box jumps, ring dips, and my 2-month numbers were better, but progress is really slowing down now- especially for my back squats and front squats and overhead lifts. My deadlift rocks and my burps are getting better, my running sucks (get winded), and my pull-ups are getting better.

Sleep- I know this is a BIG problem, as I only get about 6 hours a night. This is a work in progress to get that up to 7 by New Year’s. At least it is not the 5 I was only getting last year!

Meals: Fruit for breakfast- berries, some cantaloupe, some pineapple, nuts (not peanuts) and cappuccino with whole low pasteurized milk. On CF days, I do 2 egg ommlets and fruit and bacon.

Lunch- I get my lunches from Power Supply which is a paleo meal service out of my CF box. I do that 3 days a week, and the other two days are either a big a$$ salad from choppt, or vapianos for steak Carpaccio and a salad. Dinner, not so much- antipasti, cheese, olives, peppers, salami, and sometimes a small salad. I get in the house out of the barn around 8ish go to bed around 10, so a lot of food does not work at night for me. I intermittently fast when I am not hungry and carbo-load on occasion when my energy wanes. Overall, my energy is pretty good and I am never hungry. If anything, my appetite is not as good as it should be and I have to make myself eat, especially when it is hot outside or I am hot from working out.

The weekends I’m about 60% paleo- I have a few beers for the game/race, and we may go out, but I try to do the best I can when out, but that's not always successful. I do keep my sugar down though, do not drink any soda/juice, have kicked the Gatorade habit, and replaced it with coconut water.

Soooo guru's,,,, why the wall????

Lisl

[Lachy]

I'm no expert, but here's some of my thoughts...

First off, sounds like you've got an awesome active lifestyle! I don't know how you function on only 6 hours of sleep, but you're a champ!

80% paleo isn't paleo. If you quit smoking 80% of the time, you wouldn't actually have quit smoking, would you? Paleo doesn't seem the diet you can dip your toes into if you want to get the full results. I could be wrong here, I don't follow the diet myself, so others can yell at me if they like.

I'd recommend cutting the fruits down a bit, though they are healthy and better than a lot of other options, there can be a lot of sugar in them. Try tracking your calories for a few weeks to know how much you're actually taking in versus what you think you are and what you should be. That way you can more accurately adjust your diet. Plenty of tools out there, such as myfitnesspal.

As for your lifts, well if you want to loose fat, then you need to eat at a deficit, which means you won't be gaining much muscle, and could even be loosing some. So lifts will stall or even regress slightly. If you want lifts to go up, you'll need to eat a surplus to build new muscle to handle the increased loads. Your prority right now seems to be to loose fat, so don't worry about the numbers on your lifts, just keep putting your best effort into them. Once you hit your weight goals you can refocus on your lifts. Though something that might help them in the short term is a little more rest to aid in recovery, be that sleep, or a day off from other activities.

[notanartmajor]

I will second Lachy on the calorie watching. If you have stopped losing weight then you're not running a deficit. It seems like you're aware of the other issues.

[Moxie Hart]

The other cause for plateaus is that you've been running too big a deficit for too long. I'd be curious to see what your calorie intake is because from what I'm reading it might be a bit low. Which could also explain the lifting plateaus. I'd track a few days and see where you fall.

[lisl_luvs_beer]

I'll start tracking and report back next week- thanks guys! I suspect i've been in deficit for a very long time, so that may explain things- I really don't care about the weight, but just the body fat and strength. I'm having a hard time with the sleep thing- even if I try to get more of it, my body is not letting me get more than 6-7 hours. I think it's because for at least 35 years, i've lived off 4-6 and my body has adapted. It's going to be a hard habit to change and will take some time. My goal is at least 7.5 every night, but not sure I can get there. BTW- I'm ADD/ADHD, so that probably explains it. I finally kicked the meds after grad school and control it with constant activity and lists to stay focused.

Also, about the paleo, I know i'm not 100%, but trying to get there. It's hard living in a non-paleo household and having so many social obligations that force me out of good eating habits. I would starve on the weekends at all day events that don't have good choices, even though I try like heck to bring my own meals, and eat beforehand, it's almost impossible. Horse shows just don't have good food options, and sometimes you don't have time for anything but a lara bar and a coconut water between classes.

Lisa

Lisa

[rtalencar]

I'll start tracking and report back next week- thanks guys! I suspect i've been in deficit for a very long time, so that may explain things- I really don't care about the weight, but just the body fat and strength. I'm having a hard time with the sleep thing- even if I try to get more of it, my body is not letting me get more than 6-7 hours. I think it's because for at least 35 years, i've lived off 4-6 and my body has adapted. It's going to be a hard habit to change and will take some time. My goal is at least 7.5 every night, but not sure I can get there. BTW- I'm ADD/ADHD, so that probably explains it. I finally kicked the meds after grad school and control it with constant activity and lists to stay focused.

Also, about the paleo, I know i'm not 100%, but trying to get there. It's hard living in a non-paleo household and having so many social obligations that force me out of good eating habits. I would starve on the weekends at all day events that don't have good choices, even though I try like heck to bring my own meals, and eat beforehand, it's almost impossible. Horse shows just don't have good food options, and sometimes you don't have time for anything but a lara bar and a coconut water between classes.

Lisa

Lisa

To start I don't follow a paleo diet, so take this with a grain of salt. The whole all or nothing thing to me is a bit overstated. If you're solid 80% of the time, falling off 20% of the time, that's better than falling off 100% of the time. You could try to be super strict about it if you wanted...I guess...but if it's not something you can reasonably maintain long-term, what's the point? I used to have a HUGE bias against paleo because everyone I knew who did was a massive elitist and hardcore about it and 'if you eat one grain of rice you'll instantly die of the black plague and diabeetus at the same time'. I've since met a lot of people who are more moderate and less...ahem...psycho about it and have changed my stance on the paradigm. Trying to eat mostly nutrient dense, whole foods and not giving yourself an aneurism telling me I'm going to die of the 'beetus is a pretty damn good thing, if you ask me.

With respect to the stall and diet. Tracking what you eat can be very useful at diagnosing the problem. Try to be as accurate as possible, and though it's a huge PITA if you can get a scale and do the whole nine it would be beneficial. Figuring out your macronutrient spread would be equally useful information. If you're having success without counting calories more power to you and stick with it, but if you aren't seeing progress, knowing what you're taking in can be a huge help.

As for sleep, I also have trouble with this, but try looking at is as part of your workout. This has helped me a lot. If I take getting in enough sleep with as much seriousness as I do my lifts or whatever, I do a better job of getting to bed on time.

Good luck.

[67alecto]

To start I don't follow a paleo diet, so take this with a grain of salt. The whole all or nothing thing to me is a bit overstated. If you're solid 80% of the time, falling off 20% of the time, that's better than falling off 100% of the time.

I'll counter that with it depends entirely on how much you "fall off" on that 20%. The classic example is the weekend cheat days. Assume a BMR of 2500 calories, and a daily intake of 2000. If you're running a 500 calorie deficit each day during the week and then eat 5000 calories on Saturday, you've just wiped out your week's deficit. Based on the OP's stated height, weight, and activity level I would bet that this is what is going on.

At a glance, the activity level is high, but I would throw out the horse riding and farm work since she does it every week and her body is no doubt used to it and therefore very efficient at it. Even the Krav Maga isn't going to push you that much. When I was doing ju-jutsu, for example, the sparring sessions were intense, but otherwise it was more fluid as we practiced and learned at a slower speed. The CF is really where I'd expect to see an increasing intensity level.

I'm willing to bet that calorie counting for a week or two via a food log would be an eye opener for you, Lisl - in terms of how much you're actually eating. I don't believe that you aren't losing because of running a deficit for so long - if that were the case, you'd be unable to do your CF, Krav Maga, etc on a regular basis. Basically, your intake and activity are in balance and you're maintaining. The danger of this is that if you every get sidelined from that activity level (such as an injury that prevents you from CF and Krav maga, and puts the horse riding and farm work on hold), continuing to take in food at that will result in weight and fat gain.

On the bright side, you know that if you can trim off some calories, you'll lose weight and fat.

[rtalencar]

I'll counter that with it depends entirely on how much you "fall off" on that 20%. The classic example is the weekend cheat days. Assume a BMR of 2500 calories, and a daily intake of 2000. If you're running a 500 calorie deficit each day during the week and then eat 5000 calories on Saturday, you've just wiped out your week's deficit. Based on the OP's stated height, weight, and activity level I would bet that this is what is going on.

Very true, and something I should have clarified. I still stand by it being better than falling off the wagon all the time, but yes if all you do on your cheat day is eat a bajillion calories worth of cheesecake, that would be problematic.

[lisl_luvs_beer]

On the weekends, my biggest cheat is a sub for lunch on saturdays, as that is typically the tough work day that is hard to find time to eat decent. That and beer during the race/game on sunday- I don't go super crazy on the weekends, and definetely not anything above the 3500 range. I don't eat deserts, so no cheesecake or cupcakes- never got into bread or cakes, cookies and that sort of thing. The only "sweet" I really splurge on is my 72% ghiradelli chocolate squares, which I may have 2 a week. I'll report back next week on my cals and macros to see what I have. I also agree that the horse stuff is definetly not burning anything, since my body has been doing it all my life, and the krav doesn't always burn a lot-depends who is teaching and what we are doing. Fitness week definetly burns quite a bit, but defense week is pretty lame.

Anyway, on the weight issue, I don't want to lose anymore weight, just the fat- my ideal would be to get around 20-21% body fat keeping the same 137lbs. And, to get stronger :-)

Lisl

[RaeVynn]

Increase the percentage of fat in your diet, reduce the carbs, eat more to fuel youractivities, and keep trying for more sleep.

Good luck

[67alecto]

On the weekends, my biggest cheat is a sub for lunch on saturdays, as that is typically the tough work day that is hard to find time to eat decent. That and beer during the race/game on sunday- I don't go super crazy on the weekends, and definetely not anything above the 3500 range. I don't eat deserts, so no cheesecake or cupcakes- never got into bread or cakes, cookies and that sort of thing. The only "sweet" I really splurge on is my 72% ghiradelli chocolate squares, which I may have 2 a week. I'll report back next week on my cals and macros to see what I have. I also agree that the horse stuff is definetly not burning anything, since my body has been doing it all my life, and the krav doesn't always burn a lot-depends who is teaching and what we are doing. Fitness week definetly burns quite a bit, but defense week is pretty lame.

Anyway, on the weight issue, I don't want to lose anymore weight, just the fat- my ideal would be to get around 20-21% body fat keeping the same 137lbs. And, to get stronger :-)

Lisl

But to lose fat, you need to burn it. That will mean you need to reduce what you're eating and increase your daily burn. If you are keeping your deficit fairly small, you can do this over a long timeframe (apart from newbie gains, you can't add muscle while burning fat, but over a long enough timeline, you can shift your ratios rather than a typical bulk/cut cycle of extremes).

Track your calories for a week just to see how much you are eating. No estimations, no guesses...weigh your food and measure your portions. Resist the urge to eat less than you normally would - you want an accurate assessment so you can see where any problems are.

[MuayTyson]

You already got some great advice let me just add maybe try to do some dietary cycling. That would mean very strict Paleo or High Protein for 3 days and then one day of a re-feed where you carb up some don't go nuts just use the Paleo protocol and add sweet potatoes and fruits. I found this works well for me and I am 40. Maybe try to get in a nap during the day if possible just 20 mins could help.

[Avistew]

To calculate your calories accurately and be sure you're not cheating, what I would do is write down everything you're eating (type of food, weight, how it's cooked, etc) but don't calculate the calories until the end of the week. It could help.

Alecto, how big of a timeframe would you think such a recomp would takes? Are we speaking in weeks, months, years?

[67alecto]

To calculate your calories accurately and be sure you're not cheating, what I would do is write down everything you're eating (type of food, weight, how it's cooked, etc) but don't calculate the calories until the end of the week. It could help.

Alecto, how big of a timeframe would you think such a recomp would takes? Are we speaking in weeks, months, years?

One week would be an eye opener in terms of what she is eating. In terms of making the adjustments, that will take 1-2 weeks to get used to it.

[lisl_luvs_beer]

ok- here's my log! I used Livestrong because that's what I was using last year to realize how bad I was eating. I realized two things- cut back on the fruit and drink more water. How are my protein/carb/fat ratios? I'm thinking I need to cut more carbs and up the protein?

Fri

consumed: 988

burned: 334

net calories: 654

Protein: 28%

Carb: 26%

Fat: 46%

Sat

consumed: 1,886

burned: 243

net calories: 1,643

Protein: 27%

Carb: 27%

Fat: 46%

Sun

consumed: 1,504

burned: 1,246

net calories: 258

Protein: 22%

Carb: 35%

Fat: 43%

Mon

consumed: 1,868

burned: 243

net calories: 1,625

Protein: 14%

Carb: 38%

Fat: 48%

Tue

consumed: 1,562

burned: 677

net calories: 885

Protein: 22%

Carb: 32%

Fat: 46%

Wed

consumed: 997

burned: 1,063

net calories: -66

Protein: 25%

Carb: 41%

Fat: 34%

Thu

consumed: 1386

burned: 454

net calories: 932

Protein: 26%

Carb: 37%

Fat: 37%

[Waldo]

Wow, either you were doing something wrong with counting or your metabolism is seriously messed up. You are in ED territory with your net calorie intake, averaging 847 net cal/day. According to the Harris Benedict equation, you will maintain at a net of 1625 cal/day, recomp should only be slightly less than that, in the 1400-1500 cal/day area. Your intake relative to maintenece is the type of deficit that only really obese people can maintain long term. Most others will have serious plateau problems in that area.

It might be wise to maintain or even do a slight surplus for a while. You'll gain weight (not fat) at first as your equilibirum shifts with things like glycogen, it it will cause your metabolism to bounce back over time. As illogical as it sounds, when you are exercising a lot the body can (and usually does if you've been in a deficit a long time) actually lose fat while in small calorie surplus.

[rtalencar]

How confident are you in the accuracy of these numbers? Assuming 100% accuracy, you're definitely not eating enough. You should be eating above your BMR, and definitely not netting negative calories.

[lisl_luvs_beer]

I tracked every single thing I put in my mouth, including sauces, dressings, and water. Some things I had to guess on like my power supply meals because there is no ingredient or nutritional information on those, but I feel fairly confident that my guesses are pretty accurate, as they don't add salt, sugar, preservatives, or other sneaky things. I also did not change my diet while I was counting to artificially inflate/deflate my numbers.

I have always ate little, as I am so off the charts ADD/ADHD that I run on practically nothing. In college, I could go days without eating anything substancial. In the past year, i've been concentrating on cleaning up the diet, removing sugar and grains, and upping the protein and fat. I am just not that hungry and my body doesn't need that much food to function. I am not anal about being thin (except whether I fit into my custom hunt boots-that I'm anal about), so I have never thought about having an eating disorder, but because I have always run myself ragged for all these years, could my body have created an eating disorder subconcioulsy over time, thus requiring less food to function? I haven't tracked my food consumption since going paleo, and am rather shocked how little calories i'm intaking. I have a feeling this is going to be a long term process to get my metabolism right again.

Lisl

[lisl_luvs_beer]

Here are the breakdowns by actual grams:

protein/carbs in grams

fri-61/56

Sat-110/113

sun-66/108

mon-57/158

tue-73/110

wed-42/71

thu-82/117

[Porta]

Maybe thats why you have plateua'd, calorie intake not sufficent to support your level of activity? If thise numbers are correct.

[lisl_luvs_beer]

Ok- started upping my cal's. So far, so good, we'll see in a few weeks if I break the plateua...

Lisl