Bulk & Cut

[KillerGriller]

Forgive a poor Scout for asking but I'm curious and don't know much in the way of serious lifting etc. (although I do lift a bit).

 

As far as I understand it, when people are training to look "cut" they go through a 2 phase approach:  Bulk & Cut.  Bulking being lifting heavy and eating a surplus of calories (high in protein).  The cut phase then consists of high rep/low weight lifting and a caloric defecit which should burn what fat you have ammased as fuel?  Do I have the gist of it?

 

As a scout, if  I'm lifting heavy/eating tonnes, then cut my caloric intake could my regular cardio rotaiton be used instead of the high rep/low weight lifting for the "Cut" phase? I know it's difficult to "get big" while doing a lot of cardio, but I'd like to maximze my efforts.

 

Also, how long does an aver age "cut" phase last?...yes I know, everyone is different, metabolism etc.etc., but what is an AVERAGE length?

 

Cheers all

[Jakob Kopfeld]

I don't know too much about bulk & cut, but I'm guessing the length is entirely dependant on how much fat your body stores durin your bulk up phase. So it's gonna be hard to make a prediction for a cut phase.

[Waldo]

There isn't a good reason to change your lifting patterns of bulking/cutting.  If anything when cutting do less moderate weight, moderate rep, high set volume work and do more of it when bulking (high recovery cost, and high growth potential work).  Some high rep, low weight and low rep, high weight work is good at all times. 

 

As far as phasing and lengths, it really depends on your goals.  If you are still moving toward looking cut and a further away, shorter bulk cycles and longer cut cycles is in order.  If you are a lot closer or just looking to mantain, then bulk cycles can be longer and cut cycles shorter.  It really depends of the ratios that you gain and lose; for me I can probably follow a 3:1 ratio to maintain, 1 month of cutting to cut the fat gained in 3 months of bulking.  However since I'm trying to approach a lower BF% though right now (to really put the death throes in the fat guy fat pattern), a 2:1 to 3:2 ratio is more prudent. 

 

Then again I'm talking losing a 1-2% more each time around, next cut I'll be clearly into the single digits BF% and will switch to more maintaining ratios (last cut I cut to around 11%, hair under maybe).  Heck if I were to cut down to 8%, I could probably maintain abs for a year of bulking if moderate with a surplus (I lose abs about 14%).  But I want to settle into staying in the 9-12% BF band, which is when all is said and done pretty easy to do.  Visible abs always, a fine flexed 6 pack, but lacking the shrink wrapped or overly vascular look, and lacking the hardship of single digit BF% cutting, which really is a whole 'nother level.

[Flex Luthor]

To answer the question on average cut, from what I've seen it's about 8-12 weeks. That's generally about a 10% bf loss in that period so if you need to lose more obviously your cut would be longer. However, if you already are at a low body fat I would not recommend bulking and cutting. Despite what many will tell you it is possible to add size and stay lean it's just a slower process. Bulking and cutting does work but it is 100% not necessary and to say otherwise is flat out wrong. I prefer it because your diet and exercise habits will stay consistent but to each their own.

[Waldo]

To answer the question on average cut, from what I've seen it's about 8-12 weeks. That's generally about a 10% bf loss in that period so if you need to lose more obviously your cut would be longer. However, if you already are at a low body fat I would not recommend bulking and cutting. Despite what many will tell you it is possible to add size and stay lean it's just a slower process. Bulking and cutting does work but it is 100% not necessary and to say otherwise is flat out wrong. I prefer it because your diet and exercise habits will stay consistent but to each their own.

 

Unless you are really small using a really aggressive deficit and not in the area where lean mass loss is a real threat (higher BF%), there is no way you can lose 10% BF in 2-3 months.  I lose 2% per month tops. 

 

Your point about bulking/cutting being unnecessary sounds like a point made by someone who has never bulked while lean.  Bulking gives people the heebie jeebies, thinking you get obese overnight, but in reality that is not the case at all.  If you aren't being overly aggressive, guys might gain 1% BF a month when bulking (women lack the T and gain fat at a much higher rate).  If your starting point is 10%, you won't start losing abs for 4 months, at least; many will gain slower than 1% BF a month and could ride it out a lot longer than that.  Ab visibility is one of the best ways to keep yourself in the ideal zone, bulk until you start losing flexed definition, cut until you start gaining unflexed definition.

[KillerGriller]

Thanks for the input guys, this has give me some basic paramters to work with. 

 

Cheers

[Flex Luthor]

The way you bulk is much less intense than most people. In fact from other bulks I've seen what you're describing would almost not be considered a bulk at all. Many people think you need to lose your abs in a true bulk.

 

I don't think what you were talking about was much different than what I said though. Adding size while staying lean is possible. I would consider having abs to be lean.

[spatzcat]

the MASTER of the bulk and cut:

 

http://www.johnstonefitness.com/

 

I read his blogs, and although bulking and cutting is not something I intend to do, (just not my goal) I bow down to this guy.

[spatzcat]

you know what? I just changed my mind. fuck it. let the cutting begin. 

[Waldo]

That is very much the inspiration for my progress photos and measurement log.

Its crazy that I'm only 1.5" taller than him, yet my measurements line up with where he was at the end of photos/measurements (summer 2008, my chest is a good bit bigger though, his arms are bigger, most other measurements are comparable). He looks absolutely gigatinc in photos (summer 2008 time frame) compared to me.
 
Next challenge I should make a goal to make a better long term presentation of photo, measurement, and diet data to help others.

[spatzcat]

he is such an inspiration, and I've honestly never seen anyone with his will power. he's one tough motherf*cker.

[Cameron]

Sorry to resurrect a week old thread, but I'm having trouble figuring out where to go with this.

 

I'm a dude that's 5'11", and a few months ago I started at 173lbs of flab. Still technically "normal" BMI, but obviously flabby. Anyway, so I read up on bulking and cutting, and I spent 3 months cutting and lost 20lbs. But towards the end my workouts were definitely suffering, and I think I was starting to lose too much muscle. So I decided that I would start bulking.

 

The problem is, I don't really know how to make sure I'm gaining muscle and not fat. Where I am now (153lbs), I can see my abs if I flex, but they're not well defined. There is still a bit of fat hanging on. I really have no idea what my body fat % is. So how do I know when I've bulked enough (or too much?). I don't want to just get fat again. I could continue cutting until my abs are more defined, but I feel like my body is telling me that I've cut as much as I can at this stage without starting to lose a lot of muscle. I'm worried that if I continued cutting I'd end up like I was in high school (125lbs of skin and bones).

 

I feel like my best bet is to bulk 10-15, then cut again. Does that sound like a good idea?

[Waldo]

As I posted in your challenge thread, the tape measure and scale are your friends.

At your ht/wt you are probably better off bulking than trying to cut down to more ab definition, espeically since you've alreayd been cutting for a bit. You need some muscle mass to show when you get lean.

What you can do if you want to continue to trend toward getting increasingly lean while bulking in general is to bulk for shorter periods of time (2-3-4 months or so) followed by a cut that gets you a little leaner than your original starting point (6-8 weeks of cutting). Given a couple cycles you can put on a significant amount of muscle mass and cut down to good ab definition. While you are switching back and forth to make use of the inhereant efficiency of doing one at a time (and not doing either for too long, which also adds inefficiency); for all intents and purposes to any observer but you, you will appear to be losing fat and gaining muscle simultaneously.

[Cameron]

Thanks for the reply, that's really helpful! Since your other post was much more thorough, I will reply in more length there (in the challenge thread).

 

But that plan makes sense!