Group Read: Ender's Game- May Contain Spoilers!

[WordSmith]

Obviously, well maybe I shouldn't use that word, it's not the best tatic and shouldn't be used at every slight. Ender only went full force when he believed that there was no other solution. To relate it to my personal experiences when I put my feet on a deck which I know or resonably suspect to be occupied by a hostile force there is in my opinion no better way to neutralize the threat. Now thats at work when certain things are known. If I'm at the bar at some drunk guy shoves me I'm not going to stab him in the neck with a broken beer bottle. That would be dumb. It's good that neither NK or the US have acted in this manner but you better believe that if it comes to a war we will.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I don't agree that this attitude necessarily means that situations escalate quickly. If anything, all of the situations Ender finds himself in escalate very slowly. I think a more accurate reading of this philosophy re: North Korea would be that we continue to ignore their posturing until there is no option left but violence. Ender never struck first. Ender's philosophy is to avoid, avoid, avoid until overwhelming force is pried out of him.

 

Yeah, he really does avoid avoid avoid.  And the reason he never stands up to Peter is that his older brother is so much bigger than him that physical resolution is not an option.  Peter beat him up a few times, held him down and forced him to "Say Uncle".

 

Hmmm . Do you think if Ender had responded first and been more direct in the beginning some situations could have been handled without violence?. Say, if he had talked to the boy who was bullying him, or even just confronted him. I hadn't thought of it that way. But I see some truth. Even at the end scenarion where he as used as a weapon, it was because he was so fed up with the games. Though, I am not to sure what he could have done about that. He tried to opt out of playing, but then was coerced back into it.

 

You confront a boy that's that much bigger than you, you are just going to get laughed at, shoved to the ground, and have no respect.  If that happens, people are going to see you get bullied and think they can get away with it too, and the problem gets worse.  Until you show that it is not worth their while, that more trouble is going to come from bullying you than the fun is worth, it'll keep happening. 

 

And that's why people let him off for the Xenocide, in court Graff totally takes the fall, says they coerced him and did what they needed to do and that it wasn't his fault.

 

I asked my son why he connected with this book. He said it was because he understood how Ender felt isolated. He was smart enough to b a leader, and wanted to lead, but that often made him feel isolated from his friends. Do you think that is a common feeling among nerds-especially the smart, driven, nerd type?

 

I know I felt that way.  Among my friends wasn't an issue, I could be a leader among them when it came to that because I knew and trusted them.  The issue was in school in groups of people.  I felt isolated after having been bullied my whole life and didn't speak up or say anything if I wasn't in a group of people I knew well.  I just didn't know how they would judge me or react to speaking up, assumed it would be negative, and so kept my mouth shut.  Most of the people in my high school outside of those I was in honors classes with didn't know I was smart until senior year or so because I wouldn't speak up around them.

 

Obviously, well maybe I shouldn't use that word, it's not the best tatic and shouldn't be used at every slight. Ender only went full force when he believed that there was no other solution. To relate it to my personal experiences when I put my feet on a deck which I know or resonably suspect to be occupied by a hostile force there is in my opinion no better way to neutralize the threat. Now thats at work when certain things are known. If I'm at the bar at some drunk guy shoves me I'm not going to stab him in the neck with a broken beer bottle. That would be dumb. It's good that neither NK or the US have acted in this manner but you better believe that if it comes to a war we will.

 

Yeah, I believe the NK situation right now is very similar to Ender's situations.  We're slow playing it, trying to solve it politically but at the same time putting ourselves in a position that if it does come to fisticuffs we're ready.  Should they throw down, the US will stick a boot up their a$$.  It's the American way.  It's why we put so much money into defense funding, to make sure we have the most decisive, overwhelming force on the planet.  That's why the Iraq War was so short.  I think I remember reading about how the Irawis came out with a bunch of tanks and we dropped a single smart bomb that sent individual shaped charges into each one and took them out.

[ICB]

I asked my son why he connected with this book. He said it was because he understood how Ender felt isolated. He was smart enough to b a leader, and wanted to lead, but that often made him feel isolated from his friends. Do you think that is a common feeling among nerds-especially the smart, driven, nerd type?

 

I agree with Corey, this is how I felt, and that's why this book was so important to me as a kid. I remember reading an interview with Card (I can't find it now because it's buried under pages and pages of Superman controversy news) where he discussed reader reaction to the book after it first came out in'85. He said that he got tons of letters, but they were mostly from two groups. The first group of letters was from teachers writing to tell him that his portrayal of children was completely unrealistic and that no seven year old could have thoughts and feelings as complex and conflicted as Ender and the children of the battle school.

 

The second group of letters was from children in gifted/honors/accelerated programs saying they knew exactly how Ender felt, because they and their friends felt the same way every day of their lives.

 

There is something incredibly lonely about being the best. If doesn't matter if you're the best runningback in the world, the most successful musician in the college, or just the smartest kid in class. You're alone at the top.

[minderly]

I don't think this is in any way a spoiler....but I put it in white font just in case...

I read this book last year. So it's a little hazy...but I remember kind of being let down. Like it built up so big and then just mew mew meeeeeew I wanted a bigger climax/problem/ending. It was an excellent book, don't get me wrong. I loved everything about it, except I just felt it deserved bigger and better at the end.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I don't think this is in any way a spoiler....but I put it in white font just in case...

I read this book last year. So it's a little hazy...but I remember kind of being let down. Like it built up so big and then just mew mew meeeeeew I wanted a bigger climax/problem/ending. It was an excellent book, don't get me wrong. I loved everything about it, except I just felt it deserved bigger and better at the end.

Read the Shadow series and you'll be more pleased.

[minderly]

Really? I've heard mixed reviews from friends. It wasn't just like Ender all over? Cuz Bean was juuuuust like Ender.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Really? I've heard mixed reviews from friends. It wasn't just like Ender all over? Cuz Bean was juuuuust like Ender.

 

No, he's got his own problems, only about half the book is in the battle station, and the POV change puts a whole new spin and focus on things. The rest of that series is also very good.

[Nomad Jay]

Having read the book multiple times, I've come from it thinking that the tragedy of Ender's life, other than the psychological abuse he endured in tactical training, is that he was manipulated into xenocide. A mind that could understand people well enough to take them apart so completely could have just as easily been trained to be the greatest diplomat and peacemaker Earth knew.

 

As an aside, it's an interesting exercise to compare Ender's Game to the Trigun manga/anime, given the protagonist of Trigun has a deep-seated belief that no individual has the right to take the life of another.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

 

 

As an aside, it's an interesting exercise to compare Ender's Game to the Trigun manga/anime, given the protagonist of Trigun has a deep-seated belief that no individual has the right to take the life of another.

 

If you read the rest of the series, you find that

this ends up grinding on him for a long, long time. He doesn't feel so bad about the abuse he took in training, it was what needed to be done to accomplish the goal. What does bother him ws he killed off an entire race due to what amounts as an inability to communicate. It turns out that the buggers only attacked because they didn't understand that we were sentient because we don't communicate the same way they do. They thought the humans were like bugs or animals.

Ender pretty much spends the rest of his life trying to make this up to the buggers and fix what he ended up doing, as well as avoiding another Xenocide.

The buggers realized at the very end though communicating with Ender through his computer game (that's what all that was going on) that each individual is essentially one of their queens and were horrified by what they had almost done.

As for being the greatest diplomat and peacemaker the Earth ever knew:

This ends up actually being Peter. His harsh nature that made him unfit for Ender's place make him great as a politician and diplomat. He ends up becoming the leader of the free world. This is one of the major plotlines from the Shadow series focused around Bean.

[Georges]

 

As an aside, it's an interesting exercise to compare Ender's Game to the Trigun manga/anime, given the protagonist of Trigun has a deep-seated belief that no individual has the right to take the life of another.

 

That was one of the first comparisons that came to mind when I read Ender's Game.  The treatments of the morality of killing, the morality of intent, and the ability to turn around and face the future.

[Nomad Jay]

  

If you read the rest of the series, you find that

this ends up grinding on him for a long, long time. He doesn't feel so bad about the abuse he took in training, it was what needed to be done to accomplish the goal. What does bother him ws he killed off an entire race due to what amounts as an inability to communicate. It turns out that the buggers only attacked because they didn't understand that we were sentient because we don't communicate the same way they do. They thought the humans were like bugs or animals.

Ender pretty much spends the rest of his life trying to make this up to the buggers and fix what he ended up doing, as well as avoiding another Xenocide.

The buggers realized at the very end though communicating with Ender through his computer game (that's what all that was going on) that each individual is essentially one of their queens and were horrified by what they had almost done.

As for being the greatest diplomat and peacemaker the Earth ever knew:

This ends up actually being Peter. His harsh nature that made him unfit for Ender's place make him great as a politician and diplomat. He ends up becoming the leader of the free world. This is one of the major plotlines from the Shadow series focused around Bean.

 

I've read everything else, barring the last half of Children of the Mind. The Shadow series does a good job toying with the question of how to deal with an implacable enemy if you aren't willing to kill him or her.

[Max Power]

  

If you read the rest of the series, you find that

this ends up grinding on him for a long, long time. He doesn't feel so bad about the abuse he took in training, it was what needed to be done to accomplish the goal. What does bother him ws he killed off an entire race due to what amounts as an inability to communicate. It turns out that the buggers only attacked because they didn't understand that we were sentient because we don't communicate the same way they do. They thought the humans were like bugs or animals.

Ender pretty much spends the rest of his life trying to make this up to the buggers and fix what he ended up doing, as well as avoiding another Xenocide.

The buggers realized at the very end though communicating with Ender through his computer game (that's what all that was going on) that each individual is essentially one of their queens and were horrified by what they had almost done.

As for being the greatest diplomat and peacemaker the Earth ever knew:

This ends up actually being Peter. His harsh nature that made him unfit for Ender's place make him great as a politician and diplomat. He ends up becoming the leader of the free world. This is one of the major plotlines from the Shadow series focused around Bean.

 

After reading all of that I actually want to read the rest of them now.  

[Aqweei]

I can't remember which books I've read and which I havent. I remember I finished the complete Ender's Series and I remember reading about Bean. I guess after I finish A Dance with Dragons I'll have to reread through these. My question to those who have read it is: How do you think the upcoming film adaptation will be?

 

I'm honestly a little scared because the Ender's Series and the Dune Series are by far my favorite Sci-Fi novels. So much so that I have a Dune tattoo ("I must not fear" on my chest). I just hope it does a good job of portraying everything. Going in with a positive outlook because I know it'll never match the scenes my mind created by reading the novels. 

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I can't remember which books I've read and which I havent. I remember I finished the complete Ender's Series and I remember reading about Bean. I guess after I finish A Dance with Dragons I'll have to reread through these. My question to those who have read it is: How do you think the upcoming film adaptation will be?

 

I'm honestly a little scared because the Ender's Series and the Dune Series are by far my favorite Sci-Fi novels. So much so that I have a Dune tattoo ("I must not fear" on my chest). I just hope it does a good job of portraying everything. Going in with a positive outlook because I know it'll never match the scenes my mind created by reading the novels. 

 

I was very excited for the last year or two for it, but the preview was very underwhelming and I'm worried now.

[jdanger]

This is actually more of an Arrested Development spoiler so if you're into that and haven't watched the new season yet beware.

 

Did anyone else immediately think Ender's Game during the Buster drone bit?