Knee Issues

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Also, for people who don't know, impingement is when two things mash together that shouldn't.  In exercise, it's bad because it can either cause injuries (i.e. shoulder impingement of tendons on bone, causing injuries to the soft parts) or makes it difficult to hit proper form (i.e. squats having the belly and thighs collide so you can't get deep enough).

 

I just wanted to post this as I throw the terma round a lot and people might not know what it means.

[jdanger]

So do knees not go out or do knees just not track toes? I'm not familiar with the effects of knees being out further than toes.

 

edit: Also, it would depend on the type of squat being perofrmed as well. Front squats and even high bar back squats result in a more upright torso and a larger minimum angle between the top of the thighs and trunk, reducing the likelyhood of impingement. Which means that in these cases depth may be able to be hit with toes forward. I think the reason a lot of people need to do toes/knees really pushed out is they low bar it and or have a bit of a gut, both of which make impingement with toes forward and knees not as far out more likely before depth is hit.

Knees still track over toes. Being a little outside isn't as big of a deal either as the ankle and knees are equipped to handle this positioning a lot better than they are the valgus knee, dropped arch badness you see with either excessive foot angle, wide stance or just piss poor squatting. When a decent squatter has the mobility to use a more toes forward position cues like spread your feet/spread the floor or push through the outside of your feet become a little more powerful as they're in a better position from which to do this. In general I find cues that involve pushing the feet out against the ground work better than cueing knees out for most beginners. 

 

The other "benefit" of this positioning is that when things do go down hill they can't go as far since you're already in a more blocked position. Toes out leaves a lot more room for knee valgus and navicular drop once it starts than a forward toe position. It's analogous to having kids jump and land with their feet together to block out the same issues.

 

The front squat point is accurate but Olympic lifters are generally, and perhaps ironically, outliers here. I back squat with a forward toe position because I'm able to hit depth and it feels better for mostly the reasoning above. When front squatting I point my toes out more since this is sort of the natural default position when catching cleans and making conscious efforts to change this default to any considerable degree isn't really considered a good idea. Some lifters even alter their backsquat stances to wider, toes out setups to better replicate their snatch receiving position even though in most cases they squat better in a more narrow, forward toe position. I don't worry about this mostly because I feel like this sort of intervention is only useful in a handful of special circumstances we hardly ever see, namely people getting pinned by snatches, and that sort of specific positioning can be played with in overhead squats which are obviously already more specific to the snatch.

[eshriner]

A good stretch and practice for getting into the right form with your knees tracking over your toes is to do a body weight squat down to the bottom and put your hands together and push your knees out so they track properly over your toes... aka...

 

 

This will help you stretch and give you an idea of what proper form is like.

 

 

Squatting while pushing your knees out against a band is a great way to learn this. 

 

Note the guy in this video could do a better job driving his knees out. He's probably using too much band but the setup is the main lesson.

 

These are both very helpful. Thank you. 

[bigm141414]

Squatting while pushing your knees out against a band is a great way to learn this. 

 

Note the guy in this video could do a better job driving his knees out. He's probably using too much band but the setup is the main lesson.

 

 

Finally treid this at home. My god why didnt i do this sooner. 

[eshriner]

Squatting while pushing your knees out against a band is a great way to learn this. 

 

Note the guy in this video could do a better job driving his knees out. He's probably using too much band but the setup is the main lesson.

 

I tried this on Sunday, and I have to say I did have a doubt or two in my head. With that said, whoever came up with this idea is a FRICKIN' GENIUS!!! Got through 3 set of 25 body weight squats with NO KNEE PAIN @ ALL!!! YAY!!!

[eshriner]

Finally treid this at home. My god why didnt i do this sooner. 

 

 

I know, right!!!!!  =)