[Sept.15 - Oct. 26] There is only war: A Warhammer Fantasy PvP experiment

[lishvicious]

Is there some way that we could all enter our troops into a shared spreadsheet - so we can see at a glance where everyone is at? 

[ShadowLion]

What about turns to increase the casualties? Though this sort of doubles your workload, D_R, right?

I'm pretty new to this, but what would happen if we did turns but spread them out beyond just Sunday? A round (or two) per day with turns to thin the ranks? We would keep doing our workouts through the week and add new recruits weekly on Sundays. Kind of keep the momentum and excitement going through the week? Though I don't know if that would make your job easier or harder, D_R.

I was hoping to keep my numbers a secret to fit the story line, but it might be useful for D_R to see if everyone is making the same kind of progress. Though I'm already doing more exercise because of this - which is good - I don't think I will be racking up quite those sorts of numbers.

[Balthazar]

By picking up abilities down the road that further raise his spellcaster level. Not sure yet if that will happen in time for everyone or only for those who have won enough battles

 

Considering what Xena said and the rate at which I notice myself and cn3wton recruiting troops, I did a little math and want to ask everybody a question:

 

The original idea is 6 simultaneous rounds of combat. First round is marching to get closer, so only spellcasters would be able to do something. Round two is spellcasting again, plus the ranged units shooting. If cavalry is on the same flank of both armies, their galloping allows them to go at it in melee as well. Rounds 3 to 6 would be a free-for-all. Now, melee would be simultaneous as well, attack and counterattack, so considering an average soldier of 3 in attack and defense, we get 1-6 casualties per round, so melee infantry squads would sustain roughly 6-24 casualties per battle. More for being shot at, less for potentially fleeing. At best, this should be enough to destroy a basic squad of 20 troops. See where I'm getting at? Survivors, plus new recruits at these rates, this can turn into monster armies really quick.

 

Do you think it's ok? Should I increase attack/damage to two dice? Increase battle duration? Or maybe take turns during the 6 rounds, effectively doubling the potential casualties?

 

I think it's going to be difficult to try and find one rule that will work for everyone, some are lifting heavy and low reps some are lifting light and high reps. What would be ideal would be some way of measuring effort per person.

 

cn3wton is obviously a real world version of He Man and is off doing 200 reps of bench pressing cars, but to him that probably only feels like the same level of effort as me struggling to bench press a phone book because he is freakishly fit and thus needs to do more to achieve the same level effort as us mere mortals.

 

If we can find a way to measure effort then that would balance out all of the games. Otherwise there may be armies of very different sizes

[Balthazar]

that may also address the issue of some nations only favouring specific exercises, like Bretonnia favouring squats and bike riding whilst many other forms of exercise don't recruit?

[ShadowLion]

What about D_R matching armies after recruitment is done, so the pairings would be more equalized? Collect everyone's stats, then write the stories...we wouldn't know who we would be fighting, so we'd still be motivated to work hard, but DR could modify rounds or battles to make the matches exciting and take care of imbalances? At least until we get a feel for how it will all work. Again, I'm a newb, so not sure this would work or make sense.

[Balthazar]

What about D_R matching armies after recruitment is done, so the pairings would be more equalized? Collect everyone's stats, then write the stories...we wouldn't know who we would be fighting, so we'd still be motivated to work hard, but DR could modify rounds or battles to make the matches exciting and take care of imbalances? At least until we get a feel for how it will all work. Again, I'm a newb, so not sure this would work or make sense.

 

good idea!

[Crusunik]

Another idea I was toying with was something like half seconds per rep or comparing to normal rep time or something (I guessed normal rep time to be like a half second, but, now that I think about it, I probably wasn't thinking about both concentric and eccentric phases) but that could get complicated. Matching armies later would probably be easier.

Typed with some words possibly being replaced with "words I must have meant" without my knowledge.

[Crusunik]

Or... if we all just hook electrodes up to our muscles while we work out and then integrate the response, we can probably get highly accurate completely unfeasible results to base our points on...

Typed with some words possibly being replaced with "words I must have meant" without my knowledge.

[Crusunik]

A solution that might be better later on is possibly doing some sort of statistical analysis based on program to make a point correction factor based on type of program once we have more data (especially if more people get involved), but until that data exists, the easiest way is probably just the army matching.

Typed with some words possibly being replaced with "words I must have meant" without my knowledge.

[Balthazar]

A solution that might be better later on is possibly doing some sort of statistical analysis based on program to make a point correction factor based on type of program once we have more data (especially if more people get involved), but until that data exists, the easiest way is probably just the army matching.

Typed with some words possibly being replaced with "words I must have meant" without my knowledge.

 

I like this idea for later in the game. I would also be interested in getting more empirical data on myself anyways rather than just 'how I feel during/after that workout'

[Crusunik]

Naturally, any expertise anyone can provide in the matter would be appreciated if anyone has any, but I assume that it's only fair that by suggesting it I'm volunteering myself to do a major part if not all of the work in the statistical analysis.

Typed with some words possibly being replaced with "words I must have meant" without my knowledge.

[DarK_RaideR]

I'm pretty new to this, but what would happen if we did turns but spread them out beyond just Sunday? A round (or two) per day with turns to thin the ranks? We would keep doing our workouts through the week and add new recruits weekly on Sundays. Kind of keep the momentum and excitement going through the week? Though I don't know if that would make your job easier or harder, D_R.

I've given plenty of thought to this idea. I was thinking of allowing players to issue orders after each turn, to keep them busy during the week and let them adjust to the changes in the battlefield. I've also thought of running a round every week with orders in the meantime, so it would be one full battle per 6-week challenge, with recruiting allowed during the break week. For now, I've set those ideas aside, in order to keep it as simple as possible. After a few bouts, we can discuss incorporating these things, along with introducing terrain maps and movement distance. Right now, I struggle to keep things simple and stress troop numbers (working out) over tactics.

 

I think it's going to be difficult to try and find one rule that will work for everyone, some are lifting heavy and low reps some are lifting light and high reps. What would be ideal would be some way of measuring effort per person.

 

If we can find a way to measure effort then that would balance out all of the games. Otherwise there may be armies of very different sizes

Like I said, I try to stress workout/numbers over tactics, so anybody working out harder would probably get the win. As for the lifting issue, I've made it so for heavier units, such as giants, where the total weight lifted matters, regardless of whether you do 10 huge lifts or 100 small ones. Perhaps I could stretch it onto Upper Body exercises, but stuff like Bodyweight is by definition out.

 

that may also address the issue of some nations only favouring specific exercises, like Bretonnia favouring squats and bike riding whilst many other forms of exercise don't recruit?

I try to keep the exercises relative to units. Brettonia is full of knights, so you should expect plenty of stuff to simulate that. I guess ultimately it comes down to what you want to play vs which army suits your usual workout

 

What about D_R matching armies after recruitment is done, so the pairings would be more equalized? Collect everyone's stats, then write the stories...we wouldn't know who we would be fighting, so we'd still be motivated to work hard, but DR could modify rounds or battles to make the matches exciting and take care of imbalances? At least until we get a feel for how it will all work. Again, I'm a newb, so not sure this would work or make sense.

Weeeeeell before the unit stats craze, I kinda thought that the winner would be determined through sheer force of numbers, with casualties assigned in order to keep everyone at the same level. Which would be the lowest :/ Also, it would always lead to pyrrian victories. Still, if someone grows to large, expect unlikely/desperate alliances made to bring him/her down.

 

Sunday's battle will be fought out with the rules already in place, we're just discussing stuff in advance for future tweaks. Consider it a trial run

[Xena]

Sunday's battle will be fought out with the rules already in place, we're just discussing stuff in advance for future tweaks. Consider it a trial run

 

Easiest approach by far :-)

 

I definitely like less strategy, more exercise. I don't think I have a huge army, just a lot of chariots....oh, er I mean...

 

"From within the ship came the melody of a glorious battle won long ago. The sound was kept low to conceal their true numbers, but rich for the many voices that joined. Soon those powerful voices would be raised in a warsong."

 

Also I've decided to count my ab exercises toward musicians, a cup-bearer, and a massage therapist

[Balthazar]

I've given plenty of thought to this idea. I was thinking of allowing players to issue orders after each turn, to keep them busy during the week and let them adjust to the changes in the battlefield. I've also thought of running a round every week with orders in the meantime, so it would be one full battle per 6-week challenge, with recruiting allowed during the break week. For now, I've set those ideas aside, in order to keep it as simple as possible. After a few bouts, we can discuss incorporating these things, along with introducing terrain maps and movement distance. Right now, I struggle to keep things simple and stress troop numbers (working out) over tactics.

 

Like I said, I try to stress workout/numbers over tactics, so anybody working out harder would probably get the win. As for the lifting issue, I've made it so for heavier units, such as giants, where the total weight lifted matters, regardless of whether you do 10 huge lifts or 100 small ones. Perhaps I could stretch it onto Upper Body exercises, but stuff like Bodyweight is by definition out.

 

I try to keep the exercises relative to units. Brettonia is full of knights, so you should expect plenty of stuff to simulate that. I guess ultimately it comes down to what you want to play vs which army suits your usual workout

 

Weeeeeell before the unit stats craze, I kinda thought that the winner would be determined through sheer force of numbers, with casualties assigned in order to keep everyone at the same level. Which would be the lowest :/ Also, it would always lead to pyrrian victories. Still, if someone grows to large, expect unlikely/desperate alliances made to bring him/her down.

 

Sunday's battle will be fought out with the rules already in place, we're just discussing stuff in advance for future tweaks. Consider it a trial run

 

got it chief, will change army, checking it out now

 

btw love the special cost for Grog Lubbers

[DarK_RaideR]

got it chief, will change army, checking it out now

 

btw love the special cost for Grog Lubbers

Don't sweat it, stick with Bretonnia for the first round, probably the results will be so unbalanced that we'll have to reset everything to zero afterwards xD Also, it's a good indicator for me of how unbalancing the game might get if someone falls behind due to life issues, injury etc

 

And Grog Lubbers are wussies compared to what it takes to recruit Kislev's Kvassniks

[Balthazar]

Don't sweat it, stick with Bretonnia for the first round, probably the results will be so unbalanced that we'll have to reset everything to zero afterwards xD Also, it's a good indicator for me of how unbalancing the game might get if someone falls behind due to life issues, injury etc

 

And Grog Lubbers are wussies compared to what it takes to recruit Kislev's Kvassniks

 OMG it kind of makes me want to be Kislev, hardcore!

 

I'll test out a fall behind Bretonnia and pick up a secondary to play through if that's ok?

[Balthazar]

I don't mind doing any extra work this may entail

[DarK_RaideR]

I'll test out a fall behind Bretonnia and pick up a secondary to play through if that's ok?

I don't mind doing any extra work this may entail

Just keep track of your workouts. If you decide to switch, you may use all the points, even those converted into Bretonnian recruits, for your new army.

 

Also, waiting until Sunday sucks. As does having a million ideas/suggestions and itching to try them out.

 

What say ye we post our armies and orders until Wednesday night for a first bout?

[Balthazar]

sounds good to me. I think posting bi weekly may be a happy compromise going forwards between once a week, too far away and every day or every other day, too often and not everyone is on here that much

[lishvicious]

What is a ground exercise?

[cn3wton]

So for a comparison standpoint I will post what I did yesterday and what troops I got.

 

234 upper body exercises. 

 

Broken down I did 144 during my YAYOG workout, then I did 60 seated dips in between breaks from artwork. While I was doing jump rope I did 5 minutes of that seperated with 6 push ups with my feet elevated.

 

I recruited 10 marauders and 5 forsaken with this.

 

I did six minutes total of jump rope throughout the day. So I have 6 Hellstriders of Slaanesh

 

I did 240 core exercises. I did this by adding them to my YAYOG workout. I would do 20 exercises after each set (there where 12 sets).

 

With this I got 40 chaos warhounds.

 

So my current composition of my army is 10 marauders, 5 forsaken, 6 Hellstriders, and 40 warhounds.

 

I post this because I really want this to fun and fair. So if I am getting really far ahead of everyone I will adjust my difficulty, or something.

[DarK_RaideR]

I worked out a few trial battles with my current forces vs the ones cn3wton posted, using a variety of methods. Of course I picked the bloodiest, because that's the spirit of Warhammer and also to keep troop numbers in check. This means 2 changes to the original plan:

1. Attack rolls are changed from 1d6+Attack bonus to 1d6*Attack bonus
2. Things change drastically every round, so it's impossible to estimate beforehand who will survive and at what numbers. Orders in advance for the entire battle ain't gonna work. Combined with keeping the week excited, rounds will be fought out on Wednesdays and Sundays. In the meantime, you may PM me with the orders to your troops, reassigning targets to them

So, post your army sheet and orders for the first 2 rounds by Wednesday night and let's get this party started!

[cn3wton]

I won most of the battles right? RIGHT?!? Lol

[DarK_RaideR]

I won most of the battles right? RIGHT?!? Lol

As you should. Chaos Warriors vs Hobgoblins and Goblins is a one-way match, unless the greenskins have extremely superior numbers.

 

Results of the method that will be used, after just one round of melee (simultaneous)

Chaos Dwarf - Losses: 48, Survivors: 12. Only one squad of Hobgoblins survived, others got annihilated

Chaos - Losses: 34, Survivors: 27

 

So yeah, I suppose this solves my problem about armies growing to great size. If losses are like that, it should give us plenty to work out for during battles. Also, noticing the alarming squishyness of my troops, I did 12 Shoulder Presses, combining the points with those from yesterday's workout in order to recruit 8 Black Orks. Also managed to pump out 80 Pushups and converted them to 5 Immortals, before I noticed Pukey the Clown around the corner and had to stop.

[Chris-Tien Jinn]

Sounds good.  I'm a bit behind - yesterday was a complete wash in terms of exercises, but I DO have alcoholic beverages waiting for the conversion to Grog Lubbers.