I DESPERATELY NEED YOUR HELP!!!

[Guest Snake McClain]

Okay so (one of) my (best) Friend(s) Matt.....

he is 5'4 and 325-350lbs. He is right on that cusp of coming to work out with me. he said to me last night "hey I want to get a membership with you at the gym. I need to get in shape and I'm really getting worried about myself."

Okay so that is the first big thing and we talked a little about what he can and can't do physically so here is where I need help Everyone.

Please help me design a routine for him. I do strong lifts. He can't. Right now at his size and weight his knees and back have too much pressure on them and he simply could not do squats or dead lifts yet. Push ups he'd have to do on his knees. Pull ups are not possible.

I'm thinking starting him on the basic body weight type thing but he wouldn't be able to do planks. is there an assisted planks on yoru knees (like pushups) that would be effective?

Just someone please give me some idea how to make a routine for him. I figure what he does i'd do as my warm up before lifting. just so i can be there to do it with him. this is incredibly important to him (and me) and i really need some help here.

Thank you in advance.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

You'd be surprised what big guys are capable of once they get past making excuses for themselves. I used to have bad knees from my weight and constant pounding they took over the years from football. I used it as an excuse not to run or workout. I got fatter. Eventually I stopped the excuses, started with baby steps, and now I can run 5k's while still quite over weight. I used to not be able to run 1/4 mile due to the pain in my legs.

If he can walk around with his own body weight, he can start doing just the bar on the squats, and deadlifts with the lightest bumper plates he can find. If he still can't get himself to do those, do body squats, no added weight. The biggest thing once you gain that much weight is building up the confidence in yourself and your body. It can take awhile, took me years. Once you get through that wall though, its great.

Also, at that weight, just walking 2 miles a day will help a ton. But the biggest thing, as usually preached around here, is his diet is 80% of the battle. He needs to cut his calories to about 2500-3000 calories a day at that weight I would guess and eat clean. Low carbs would help, but not necessary yet.

Honestly Bruce, if you can get him cleaning up his food intake and just walking for 30 minutes a day, I guarantee you he'd drop a bunch of weight in a few months and be able to start doing some of the workouts you don't feel he is capable of now.

[Philociraptor]

Body weight is definitely a good way to start. Our benevolent overlord (Steve) has posted many a workout of that kind over the past couple years. I'll put this out there though: dialing in his eating is way, Way, WAY more important at this point. As Gary Taubes says, exercise is ineffective as a means of weight loss. For people who have a lot to lose, low carb interventions (Paleo or otherwise) almost always do the trick. I say start there.

Edit: CoreyD beat me to it! Grr.

[Guest Snake McClain]

we discussed diet definitely. and he knows that. We are already talking about how he is going to eat. I had him on a treadmill a few times a week but he let his schedule and excuses get in the way. we are almost past that.

He knows about the food/calorie/carb intake. he knows this. So we are looking at the next step.

I did tell him that if he works with me we are doing weights with compound muscle groups. he said okay. Problem is my little gym doesn't have bumper plates. and...because of his shape i'm not sure if he can even get in the position needed to do a deadlift. For him just bending over is a major task. So I'll have to start him with a lot of body weight stuff and get him squatting/push pressing/benching just the bar. we discussed that if he did the barbell stuff it would be just the bar for a while. My question is what about his back muscles? he can't do pullups and i' not sure if his back can handle the barbell rows...but then at just the bar he should be fine so...nevermind that.

I guess I sort of answered my own question with the socratic method eh?

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Yep, you did. If there are no bumper plates, prop the bar up on something so that it's at the right height even without weights on it for the deadlift. If he can't bend over for it, then don't do the deadlift. As long as he's doing squats, he'll be fine without deadlifts for awhile. If he can't do the form or weight for the rows, use the dumbells first, not barbells, with low weights.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Yeah. I'm thinking of getting him on some kettle bell things. cleans with them or something. also squats or such with them.

[ZenGwen]

I think you might be surprised how much weight he can lift. (He might too!) There's a phenomenon where big guys tend to have a much higher level of just basic strength than others - because they're always carrying around hundreds of extra pounds, you know? My friends and I call this "fat guy strength", in the most affectionate way possible. You should see my friend Benn just pick up the littler, skinnier geeks by the scruff of their necks. Don't think he's worked out a day in his life. So lifting weights might be difficult practically right now just because of the extra bulk and pressure on joints, but I bet that when he manages to start, he'll actually be pretty strong.

Seriously, if he wants some extra motivation, get him watching World's Strongest Man. Those are the guys with the functional strength and they are built like brick shithouses. A lot of them are carrying around a bit of extra weight. Because being STRONG isn't about looking like a greased bodybuilder, you know?

Anyway. In terms of actual exercise, I'm mostly behind what CoreyD said. If he can't do intense cardio yet, at least get him walking distances regularly, it will help a LOT. Also, If he can't do pull ups yet, maybe get him on the lat-pulldown machine. I don't usually like machines but that one is very helpful for building up to pull-ups, and I bet his bulk won't be a problem with it.

[This is Seth]

Cleans might be a bit much, they're kind of advanced. I'd start with smaller lifts before you introduce him to a workout that stresses the need for rigid form.

kettlebell press + gauntlet squats + kettlebell swings are practically the same muscle groups without the risk of him throwing out his back. Though, one of the oldbies might correct me on that.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Fatguy strength, I love it. I'm behind ZenGwen on that one. I'm already past all my PR's from highschool when I lifted for football, it may be due to Fatguy strength since I've been carrying around 60 more pounds than I used to for 5 years.

[ETFnerd]

has he had a physical recently. if he has insurance get him checked out so that you know about underlying ailments. if no insurance, check into a free or low cost clinic. if he has high blood pressure you have to be careful with exercise.

[Guest guest4729]

One thing you need to remember BESIDES exercise is making sure that you're not deterring him in any way. The other day when I was at the gym I saw a father/son couple working out - the father was a bit bulkier and the son was still young (16?) and scrawny. The father was pushing him but clearly pushing him TOO far to the point where he just wanted to go home. He was insulting him more than encouraging him for trying and you could see that the boy was clearly feeling defeated. They ended up leaving "early" according to what the dad said and then he remarked "I thought you wanted to bulk up! I thought you wanted to stay for an hour! I thought you wanted...blah blah blah." making the kid feel like crap. I just wanted to walk up to him and talk to him but that clearly wasn't my place.

So just remember YOUR encouragement could make or break his working out routine. Encourage him when needed, tell him how much better he'll feel, how much stronger he'll get, how his health problems may reverse themselves or get fixed, how it takes time to put it on and will take time to get it off, how good it feels to hit new PR's, etc. The first month of working out seems to be the most crucial for people. Once you do something like 20 times it becomes a habit - if he sticks with it for a month he should be fine with proper motivation. Less poking and prodding from you. And since it seems like he weighs a lot, a lot of that excess weight should fall off quickly if he's eating better, eating less and working out. (Or at least that's how it seems to work.)

For diet things:

If he has trouble stopping his bad habit of drinking soda: What Soda Does to Your Body

Make sure you highlight what happens in the first 10 minutes: you should be THROWING UP FROM ALL THE SUGAR! If it wasn't for the phosphoric acid you'd throw up from it!

Explain Paleo basics to him and WHY certain foods are bad for him (like why lectins and such are bad for your intestines, inflammation, etc. etc.)

Also make sure to really drive the point home of HOW important eating well is when you want to lose weight and/or gain muscle.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I think you might be surprised how much weight he can lift. (He might too!) There's a phenomenon where big guys tend to have a much higher level of just basic strength than others - because they're always carrying around hundreds of extra pounds, you know?

We actually talked about this last night. That he has got a ton of leg power just because of carrying himself around all day.

Cleans might be a bit much, they're kind of advanced. I'd start with smaller lifts before you introduce him to a workout that stresses the need for rigid form.

kettlebell press + gauntlet squats + kettlebell swings are practically the same muscle groups without the risk of him throwing out his back. Though, one of the oldbies might correct me on that.

You're definitely right. I'll look at these exercises for him. good call.

has he had a physical recently. if he has insurance get him checked out so that you know about underlying ailments. if no insurance, check into a free or low cost clinic. if he has high blood pressure you have to be careful with exercise.

I hadn't considered that. i will discuss this with him today. not sure if he has insurance or not. pretty sure he doesn't but i'll talk to him about it. thanks for all the help everyone. you're the boobs.

[bigm141414]

you're the boobs.

Huh interesting how other people use this term. I thought it was just my group of friends (although we use a slightly more vulgar wording).

[Guest Snake McClain]

Huh interesting how other people use this term. I thought it was just my group of friends (although we use a slightly more vulgar wording).

I usually do too. but this is a somewhat friendy site and i didn't want to say it....

[scott82962]

I used to have a friend the same size. I lost track of him years ago because his lifestyle had spiralled so far out of control with drugs, alcohol and legal issues. It was frightening how fast he put on weight - sometimes in 6 - 12 months he'd go from 325 to 450 (at 5'3"). These always occurred while he was in the midst of chronic binge drinking and eating, which seemed to be highly correlated to self-loathing. Then he'd gain some focus (usually after an arrest or other traumatic event) and drop back down to the 300 range.

I recognize that it's a lot easier being skinny in our culture than fat, and I guess I'm lucky that way. At my skinniest a lot of people will comment on what good shape I'm in (blah, blah, blah), but my buddy, I think, just started believing his own "bad press" and gave up trying.

Good on you for working out with your friend. With a modicum of effort, as commented on above, he'll do well. Hopefully he'll adopt a lifestyle change that will give him the reslience to deal with the inevitable set backs and plateaus. A schedule and a work out partner are great ways to start the journey. I'm still new here, but I think signing up with Nerdfitness would also be a plus.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I used to have a friend the same size. I lost track of him years ago because his lifestyle had spiralled so far out of control with drugs, alcohol and legal issues. It was frightening how fast he put on weight - sometimes in 6 - 12 months he'd go from 325 to 450 (at 5'3"). These always occurred while he was in the midst of chronic binge drinking and eating, which seemed to be highly correlated to self-loathing. Then he'd gain some focus (usually after an arrest or other traumatic event) and drop back down to the 300 range.

I recognize that it's a lot easier being skinny in our culture than fat, and I guess I'm lucky that way. At my skinniest a lot of people will comment on what good shape I'm in (blah, blah, blah), but my buddy, I think, just started believing his own "bad press" and gave up trying.

Good on you for working out with your friend. With a modicum of effort, as commented on above, he'll do well. Hopefully he'll adopt a lifestyle change that will give him the reslience to deal with the inevitable set backs and plateaus. A schedule and a work out partner are great ways to start the journey. I'm still new here, but I think signing up with Nerdfitness would also be a plus.

I really do worry about him. He does too. he knows he's in a bad way and he knows the dangers of his health and he's wanting to work on it. so it's a matter of time just to get him to sign up. We will be there though. I'm not sure if he'd ever sign up for nerdfitness just because i'm not sure if he'd want to be on a forum with a all of us fit freaks but he is certainly a mega nerd. nerdier than i'll ever be. I'm not so sure i should be here sometimes but that's neither here nor there.

We are almost there though. Like i said he's on the cusp and soon i'll have him in the gym with me.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Have you seen my intro post on my progress thread? Not all of us are fit freaks.

edit: ref'd wrong thread.

[Guest guest4729]

I'm not sure if he'd ever sign up for nerdfitness just because i'm not sure if he'd want to be on a forum with a all of us fit freaks but he is certainly a mega nerd. nerdier than i'll ever be. I'm not so sure i should be here sometimes but that's neither here nor there.

We are almost there though. Like i said he's on the cusp and soon i'll have him in the gym with me.

Lies. You don't HAVE to be a fit freak to be on here - there are no prerequisites. All you need is the need to change yourself. I didn't know ANYTHING about fitness until I joined this forum. NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH. Where did I learn it all? This forum. These members. These thread. All these recommendations.

From the way it sounds, this place is PERFECT for him. No excuses, no excuses.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Lies. You don't HAVE to be a fit freak to be on here - there are no prerequisites. All you need is the need to change yourself. I didn't know ANYTHING about fitness until I joined this forum. NOTHING. NADA. ZILCH. Where did I learn it all? This forum. These members. These thread. All these recommendations.

From the way it sounds, this place is PERFECT for him. No excuses, no excuses.

True. you don't need to be a fit freak. but once we get here we sort of become fitness freaks. And that aside i just think he would feel....look i know the guy. and i don't think he'd sign up. but i'll mention it.

[Guest guest4729]

True. you don't need to be a fit freak. but once we get here we sort of become fitness freaks. And that aside i just think he would feel....look i know the guy. and i don't think he'd sign up. but i'll mention it.

Tell him we'd love to have him here either way. If he's open to learning then we'll teach him everything and anything he wants to know. There are people here of all levels of fitness, all levels of fitness knowledge and all levels of actually working out. If you don't have the support it's hard to get motivated and it's hard to learn and ask questions. At least ask him to consider checking out the forums at the very least.

[K Po]

Definitely agree with everyone on keeping it positive I'll just throw out my 2 cents on the workout portion of this. While it'd be great to get him into doing barbell or bodyweight exercises from the start, don't neglect the fact that in the beginning, machines that mimic the basic barbell lifts (like the leg press) aren't the worst thing he could do. They don't build the stabilizers like the free weights will, but it'll allow him to get stronger, build up some confidence, and then get to the point where he can move on to dumbbell and barbell movements.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Definitely agree with everyone on keeping it positive I'll just throw out my 2 cents on the workout portion of this. While it'd be great to get him into doing barbell or bodyweight exercises from the start, don't neglect the fact that in the beginning, machines that mimic the basic barbell lifts (like the leg press) aren't the worst thing he could do. They don't build the stabilizers like the free weights will, but it'll allow him to get stronger, build up some confidence, and then get to the point where he can move on to dumbbell and barbell movements.

Very true. He just knows my thoughts on machines and I'm pretty sure he wants to stay away. as he has hurt his shoulder on machines in the past. So he knows to expect to do at the very least dumbells. but most likely hed do barbells with me and we see where it goes.

[Damzie]

My husband used to be pretty heavy and managed to lose 70 pounds. The biggest thing for him was getting his confidence moving in the right direction. And I think confidence is built when a) you find out you're good at something, and you see results. If he cleans up his diets and starts walking he'll see results in the form of weight loss. And maybe he should concentrate on the weight training that he'd be good at. Like everyone has said, he'll probably be pretty strong. That way he'd be good at something and seeing results. I would hesitate to put him into positions that would be really uncomfortable for him - like it sounds like the Dead Lift might be. He can always add those on when he's able, and it will be exciting for him when he can.

Also - very glad ETF pointed out that he should get a good physical first.

Good luck and glad to hear you're being such a good friend! Wish everyone had somebody like you to help out!

[Guest Carjack]

Before Stronglifts and all those Nautilus thingies were invented, there used to be an obscure but very effective training implement that you could find in every gym:

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_xkKAlvb204tY1TNsvSNtx7X8dgiKHrsyNen5rpmW_oryKcE0-g

It went from as light as 5 pounds up to 120 or more and it was perfect for a beginner.

At first, the strongman would begin by doing rowing, curling and pressing movements in addition to moves like the goblet squat for hip mobility and preparation for Olympic style barbell squats later on.

When more advanced they'd add in barbell lifts and/or one handed snatches and overhead swinging movements.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT643GayOKGQzaA0chECWpMPmMc088HsUS8CPVLRJOgArGRgqg-8w

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSw55Z9N33wnTGSoEpg3Q9A50QlLrm3QDw9aIc6wWb4sr1UMk4Gzw

This obscure device was miraculously effective, but quickly swept away by the various fitness crazes that flooded NerdFitness.

[Guest Snake McClain]

No machines!

Before Stronglifts and all those Nautilus thingies were invented, there used to be an obscure but very effective training implement that you could find in every gym:

https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_xkKAlvb204tY1TNsvSNtx7X8dgiKHrsyNen5rpmW_oryKcE0-g

It went from as light as 5 pounds up to 120 or more and it was perfect for a beginner.

At first, the strongman would begin by doing rowing, curling and pressing movements in addition to moves like the goblet squat for hip mobility and preparation for Olympic style barbell squats later on.

When more advanced they'd add in barbell lifts and/or one handed snatches and overhead swinging movements.

https://encrypted-tbn3.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT643GayOKGQzaA0chECWpMPmMc088HsUS8CPVLRJOgArGRgqg-8w

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSw55Z9N33wnTGSoEpg3Q9A50QlLrm3QDw9aIc6wWb4sr1UMk4Gzw

This obscure device was miraculously effective, but quickly swept away by the various fitness crazes that flooded NerdFitness.

^love this guy! (carjack not the fitness dude in the photo...unless that is carjack)