knee pain - running and squats

[tazer]

so last night, did some interval running on a paved bike/pedestrian trail, and i really hurt my knees. one of them is just sore and the other one is very painful and pops when i bend it. it is popping less severely this morning, but hurts when i walk. i have kind of flatish feet, so i think that may have something to do with it. i am mostly concerned that if i keep running, i will end up permanently injure my knees sonewhere down the road. is injury inevitable? or does this thing just happen to new runners and then your body adapts?

is my only solution to not having pain from running to go to a running store and get special (expensive) shoes?

also, can doing body weight squats cause knee pain? that's the only other thing i do that uses knees extensively.

thanks,

-leah.

[mikeinscho]

Knee pain is mostly caused by an imbalance or weakness somewhere along the chain. Not so much because of over use.

How do you run? If you're landing pretty hard on the heel that will cause knee pain.

The only thing I could really suggest is to look into the way your foot lands (read up on how to transition to barefoot running for the best way to make contact) and work in reverse lunges with or in place of body weight squats. For what it's worth my knee pain went away after I started doing more reverse lunges.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I used to get shin splints because of a) weak shins muscles from years of not using them and terrible shoes with no cushion and c) crazy heel striking. Knees can have pain form the same 3 problems. I fixed this by a) easing into running by doing shorter intervals of running mixed with walking and working my way up bought a pair of asics and bought a new pair every 4-6 months c) focused on keeping my strides shorter and quicker and landing more mid-foot, which takes some stress off the knees and puts it into the ankle muscles like our bodies are designed to work.

[bigm141414]

I recommend trying some of these stretches for your knees. They've helped me a lot. Like mike said knee problems aren't just isolated to the knees and if you have started running a lot you could be tight all up and down your legs.

Edit: I run barefoot with no issues and have had no problems in 2.5years with either shin splints or knee problems so expensive shoes aren't always necessary.

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/06/episode-267365-mobrx-for-lound-creaky-knees.html

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/05/episode-253365-knee-pain-case-study.html

http://www.mobilitywod.com/2011/02/episode-163365-kneeankleachilles-issues.html

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Oh yeah, now that I've strengthened by shins and got better form, I don't need the shoes anymore, forgot about that. I wear Vibrams now.

[Waldo]

If you don't have special running shoes and have poor running form, running can be absolutely brutal on your ankles, shins, and knees. One of the reasons a lot of people run barefoot is that lacking the safety net that shoes provide for your feet, you naturally revert to a very good running form. Shoes allow you to run with poor form. However good running shoes cusion you from a lot of the negative effects unless running with really poor form.

Though like noted above, the running probably greatly exacerbated a preexisting condition that wasn't running related, leg muscle weakness/imbalance and/or tightness, which tends to show itself in the form of knee pain.

[tazer]

i feel like i have pretty good running form. when i practice running on the treadmill, i have never had any issues. i try to run as quietly as possible by making sure the balls of my feet take the brunt of my weight. when i am done running, the muscles that feel the most worked are usually my calves. i am going to try those mobility exercises and i will probably get a decent pair of shoes. mine do kind of suck, now that i am actually paying attention to how my feet feel when i work out.

are reverse lunges just as effective as regular lunges? somehow i have never been able to do lunges properly without hurting myself, but these look a bit easier for some reason.

[mikeinscho]

To me, yes I say reverse lunges are better. They are the exact same movement, but when most people step forward their knee is 100% stable and they end up feeling pain. When stepping back, you're support (front leg) is already contracted and stable.

This is why I avoid walking lunges too.

[Dax]

i feel like i have pretty good running form. when i practice running on the treadmill, i have never had any issues. i try to run as quietly as possible by making sure the balls of my feet take the brunt of my weight. when i am done running, the muscles that feel the most worked are usually my calves. i am going to try those mobility exercises and i will probably get a decent pair of shoes. mine do kind of suck, now that i am actually paying attention to how my feet feel when i work out.

are reverse lunges just as effective as regular lunges? somehow i have never been able to do lunges properly without hurting myself, but these look a bit easier for some reason.

I've had a lot of similiar problems with my knees from running and lunges. What worked for me on the lunges was shortening the stride and ensuring that my knees never, ever, ever again went past my ankles. I also slowed down and held it for a moment. When I had to stop running for a period of time due to a knee injury, I found that using a row machine (if you have access) can help you ease back into running as it's low impact on your legs, but they're passively engaged and you keep your heart rate up. Or, if you have access to a pool, you can get a flotation belt and "run" through the water to strengthen your legs with minimal impact on your knees - but be warned, that one nearly killed me it was such a smoker. Good luck!

[jm0990]

What worked for me on the lunges was shortening the stride and ensuring that my knees never, ever, ever again went past my ankles.

I've also had problems with knee pain over the last year and a half or so. I would apply dax's above advice to running as well. If your pace is fairly slow, it'll be tough to do, but think about where your knees and ankles are when you land. Couple other things:

1-I've gone through maybe 7 pair of running shoes trying to find the magic pair that didn't cause either blisters, hip pain, or knee pain. All I learned is that it's really easy to burn through money when buying shoes. I eventually settled on a pair of asics that cost about 80 dollars - this was after wasting 130 dollars on new balance 993, 130 dollars on nike vomeros, and a few other pricey pairs. I wouldn't bother replacing your shoes unless you find them to be uncomfortable, old, or if they fit poorly. My belief is that the lighter your body is, and the more fit you are, the better your form will be and the less prone to injury you will be...and footwear becomes less relevant.

2-I was very overweight when I started running (5'11" and 210 lbs - with most of the fat in my torso as I have skinny limbs). I struggled to do 2 or 3 miles and found that I kept having hip and knee problems. Now, 18 months later, I'm much lighter (163 lbs) and I go on three 7 mile runs per week without problems. I can't tell much from your avatar pic, and you don't look like you're carrying extra weight, but I think body weight definitely makes a difference. If you are on the heavy side, ease up on the running for a month while you focus on shedding a few pounds by eating well. That helped me a lot.

3-When I run, I try to think about landing on the back of the ball of my foot....practically the front of my arch. I also try to gently 'find' the ground with each step rather than hitting hard. Lastly, think about how much up and down motion you have while you run. I try to avoid making my run too bouncy...I think I stole that idea from the 'Born to Run' book where he talked about how much his head was moving up and down when he ran.

4-I like to lift and squat as well as run. I've found that when I do squats even slightly past parallel, my knees ache the next day. I know a lot of people would disagree, but now I try to never squat at or past parallel. I also do more light dumbbell lunges as someone else suggested and I think that has helped.

Hopefully something in there is helpful