Men ONLY please...

[Guest Snake McClain]

I was bullied badly. My stance will be with my children is to fight back. They're beating your ass anyway so maybe you'll get some good licks in. And always aim for the nose or the gonads.

[Mb82]

That is a tough situation. I didn't fight back, basically was too small to fight against my bully effectively. Got to say I have gotten him back several times since then, never with violence. Those were some bad years in elementary school but they will get better.

[Blaizen]

Feel the pain bro, I got bullied a hell of a lot growing up, and my son is developmentally slow so I'm expecting issues there....

I saw him get slammed by a kid once, took everything I had not to ...., as you can guess bullyings a sore spot with me these days. The problem there is it's a lil backwater town and said kids dad is the big man, both physically and buisness wise so couldn't do much to get it dealt with.

My sons a chilled out kid, just wants to do his own thing, so I'm hoping it won't progress too much otherwise I will teach him how to fight properly. I'm definitely with Bruce on this one. But, if he doesn't want too then I'll have to respect it.

Is there anything in town activity wise that involves kids he doesn't go to school with? The added confidence of new friends etc. can help a lot. I used to go on camps etc. that were run for kids for this very reason. The only thing i can suggest is that he ignores them, if they get no reaction eventually they'll stop. Of course that doesn't always work unfortunately, and from what you've said I'm not sure it would.

I wish you the very best for this one.

[BarefootDawsy]

Wow thrillo that's just terrible! It's a hell of a situation for you both to be in. I have to agree with the above advice to ride the teachers and admin staff hard in this. I would also definitely get in contact with the kids' patents too. Even if your son won't tell you their names I guarantee that someone at the school has noticed.

Line up a meeting with the school first thing in the morning and get this sorted.

I'd love to know how much psychological and physical abuse the teaching staff would be willing to put up with if it were happening to them!

The squeaky wheel gets the oil and if you don't get anywhere with them, google a bunch of bullying court cases and spell out to them just how detrimental to the school it could be if they don't start taking this issue seriously.

[67alecto]

Unless any of us have been there, it's impossible for us to offer advice to your son who is physically challenged. Really, you just need to sit down with him and ask him how he wants you to help. Don't take no for an answer...he needs to come up with something to work through it.

On those same lines, here's something I kept forgetting to post in this thread:

I've followed this blog off and on over the years, and I bought the book awhile back:

Rules For My Unborn Son

http://rulesformyunbornson.tumblr.com/

http://www.amazon.com/Rules-Unborn-Son-Walker-Lamond/dp/0312608950

A must for any dad, current or future.

Hell, it's good advice for any guy.

Here are a few from the shuffle feature

Don’t get all fancy about your beer or coffee.

Don’t lose your cool. Especially at work.

You can’t learn anything with your hands in your pockets.

On a night out with the boys, never be the first to go home.

The best way to show thanks is to wear it. Even if it’s for the last time.

You only get one chance to notice her new haircut.

Keep a picture of your first fish, first car, and first girlfriend.

A suntan is earned, never bought.

Never shake a man’s hand sitting down.

Until you are a doctor, never answer your phone at the table.

Help a buddy move.

In pickup hoops, let someone else call the fouls.

Learn to drive a stick shift.

Have a favorite song. It doesn’t have to be hip. (The best ones never are.)

Be mindful of what comes between you and the earth. Buy good tires, good sheets, and good shoes.

Don’t leave a wedding until you’ve danced with the bride.

[Thrillho]

Not taking no for an answer has never really worked until today. This is the most progress he's made talking to me about anything, really. He normally just shuts down if I try to talk about anything difficult, I had to physically prevent him from hiding in his room when we started. So, it's some progress, and we've talked about ways to deal with it, but when faced with a two-choice decision (play with kids and risk getting bullied, or do stuff by yourself and be lonely) he absolutely can't pick.

I am already going to be talking to his teacher next week, and we are working with her on ways to deal with his quirks in class (he is extremely smart, but has a lot of social issues stemming from the physical issues). I will try and track down the principal (the scantily-clad personal trainer I mentioned before) and raise this issue with her, too.

[MMyers]

Best of luck Thrillho.... If it happens on the school grounds, then it's up to the school. The reason I bring up this specific point was because I got screwed by a technicality. They were on my bus and got off at my stop, so the school said that it was up to the police to take care of it, and the police said it was up to the school to deal with it. NEVER let that happen. Do whatever you have to do. The dumb shits at the schools don't want to do anything, and if a kid gets beaten, they'll do whatever they can to wash their hands of it, because otherwise they look bad.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Mmyers....how did you change your screen name??? (Sorry off topic)

[MMyers]

I Pm'd Spezzy about it, and she was kind enough to grant my request.

[Thrillho]

We live three blocks away in a town of 1200, so there's no bus worries (I also had that issue on the bus before).

Thanks to all of you for helping me when I was bouncing off the walls today. We have had two really good talks today, and he does seem to feel better about the world. We're going to talk about it more from now on, and he is going to try and figure out the names of some of the kids (a couple of them are Grade 7 kids... what the hell?!) A big part that seems to work with him is reminding him of all the ways he's awesome, and all the ways they're not, and for a second "The best revenge is success" got through to him. These days, even getting a smile out of him is a bonus.

Also, we had Phase I of "The Talk". Being a dad is wierd.

Thanks!

[Blaizen]

Also, we had Phase I of "The Talk". Being a dad is wierd.

Care to post tips for those of us who have that still to look forward too....

[thescrawnycaveman]

I showed up late, but I'm glad to hear that what your doing is helping him!

[Thrillho]

Care to post tips for those of us who have that still to look forward too....

He's already read "The Teenage Survival Guide", as well as some medical books I got him to explain his condition, so he knows all about puberty and hormones and stuff. Phase I mostly dealt with "You don't feel this way about girls NOW, but..."

[sdquinn]

I think there was good advice for the Talk in The Art of Manliness book (Steve's guest blogged there before!), but I don't have it with me to check.

[161803398874989]

May I inquire as to what his condition is, or is that private?

The best revenge is success really is the way to go. That's what I did.

[wildross]

Question for the guys here, especially the dads: do any of your kids have problems with being bullied? My son just turned 10 and he's in Grade 4. He spent Grade 3 being homeschooled, due largely to the problems he was having being bullied in Grade 2. We're in a different town, with a different school, a much SMALLER school, but it's still bullying. It hasn't crossed the line into assault yet (unlike Grade 2), but it's still pretty severe, at least from his point of view, and from his point of view he has another FULL LIFETIME of this to look forward to.

Fighting back isn't an option, since they pick on him for his physical disabilities, and even if he could get his hands on them he's a very gentle boy (seriously, my five year old daughter can and has taken him in a fight). Telling him to tough it out isn't working. Telling the teachers doesn't do anything. Telling the principal doesn't do anything. The only step I can see left is trying to get the names of the boys and then going to talk to their parents, but he doesn't want to tell me their names. Beyond hugging him and telling him that things to get better, I'm out of ideas.

I'll take a slightly different tack. Can you resume home schooling? Some kids mature slower emotionally and just can't handle the group dynamic until later in life. (you don't mention what kinds of meds/for what). One of the biggest issues with government run schooling is that it encourages/forces everyone to a norm. 1st graders do THIS. 2nd do THAT. And he may just not be there yet. Plus kids are like wolves, they pick out the weak or susceptible to attack.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I do.t think it's any secret I have a real problem with bullies. I'd love to come out there and find these 7thare graders (seriously they meed to pick on a little kid?) And rough them IP. Not put them in the hospital but just scare the shit out of them so they understand what they're doing to your boy. I know its ridiculous but can't happen but it is what I would LIKE to do. This sort of thing just pisses me off so much. I'm really sorry to hear he's going through it. I did as a kid and I know how hard it is. However he has one thing I never did. Apparent to listen. So as a kid with shot parents I can say that its amazing you're doing what you are and being involved. That alone I'm sure is making it easier. Sure he might be scared to go to school but now at least he knows daddy has his back.

[Book]

I don't know. I think you might be a little too polite about this. I would have started polite, but by this point I would be a major pain in the system's backside. The principal would be cringing because I'm waiting for her at the front door *again*. I would be befriending the local newspaper, and showing them pictures of the damage of abuse. My congressman and senator would be getting calls. And there would be lawyers involved. I'd make the PTA over into my own personal action committee.

A little hazing might be okay. The cool kids treating the nerds with disdain is to be expected, and is a good lesson to grow up with, probably. But physical violence has NO place. Yes, I have 5 children. Had to deal with cyber-bullying so far, the school was supportive, so we didn't press it.

[Thrillho]

Like I said, it hasn't crossed any lines where the school might suddenly take an interest for fear of legal repercussions. Other than a few kicks, they haven't really HURT him physically. His teachers have encouraged him to stay inside at recess, go to the library or the computer lab, but he won't do it because he's desperate for someone to play with, for some social interaction, since he does have some friends there, but his FRIENDS play with the kids who AREN'T his friends, and don't really do anything to stand up to the bullies because, hey, they're ten. Stealing someone's boots is funny.

He has non-rheumatoid idiopathic juvenile arthritis, and right now he is on weekly methotrexate injections that I do for him at home, daily piroxicam, and a cycling roster of NSAIDS for the inflammation. Because he was pretty much crippled and immobile for the entire age of four, he missed a huge step in his ability to walk and run, and even now he still hasn't really caught up. He's in sports because his condition is 95% under control, and he was even off his meds for almost six months because it had seemed to go away completely, but he is still a very slow runner. It doesn't help that he's got four inches and twenty pounds on the NEXT biggest kid in his class (I'm a really big guy, my dad was a really big guy, and my son is going to be a really big guy). He's tall, wide, heavy, and slow... not a great recipe for fairness in grade school.

It's difficult because at his age, I WAS getting assaulted. I was stabbed with a steak knife by a kid at my school when I was 11. I've been knocked off my bike on a downhill trying to get away from them but they caught up to me because I'm terrified of going too fast downhill on a bike and they're not. Boys and girls would call my house and ask to talk to me, and then just fuck with me and tell me that if I hung up on them they'd get me the next day at school. The kids at my son's school are being jerks, but they're not even approaching the level of hostility I dealt with. As far as my son is concerned, though, THIS is the worst thing ever, and I am trying to help him mentally toughen up against this and secretly relieved he doesn't have to deal with anything worse.

We don't want to go back to homeschooling. It was bad for him last year, it was REALLY bad for my wife who would have to be in charge of it again, and he's not going to develop socially by hiding inside and reading more books. That is something I've looked at, seriously looked at a couple times, but I think, with him, more homeschooling is going to make things worse.

That was a little rambly and disjointed, but there you go.

[wildross]

Kicking is not OK, whether there is damage done or not. If I throw a rock at your head and miss, I think it's still an issue.

(insert standard pro home school rant here about how the social development from government schools is bad). We did all 4 with our kids, government school, private school, traditional home school and at home charter school. Depending on the kids, the $$ and my wife's health. So, you gotta do what works.

[Book]

What happened to you does not change that what's happening to him is not okay.

It doesn't have to be physical, but stealing boots and filling with snow etc has crossed over the physical line. Kicking should get a kid suspended, and eventually expelled. Even non-physical bullying is not acceptable. Take cyber-bullying/stalking. I don't know why your school hasn't taken this seriously, when so may others have. Maybe because the parents haven't fought back yet. It never hurts to bring up Columbine.

[Anivair]

I am of two minds on this. A little bit of going rough on a kid, i think, builds a certain type of character (a type I have since I was picked on quite a bit). Going past that to the bullying sector to me feels different. Bullying becomes a problem when there's no place to hid from it and when there is no relief. One guy being a prick to you in school is called school. Even if it's one guy and his five friends, that's a thing that happens. But when it gets to the point where it's causing pretty substantial strife, it needs to stop.

And kids today are not ignorant of this. they watch all the same anti-bullying media we do. So that's not really an excuse.

[KillerGriller]

I'd like to chime here but I have nothing to add that hasn't been said several times except: stay strong, and make sure he never forgets that you're in his corner. Good Luck

[Waldo]

Au bullying, the story of my childhood. I was bullied really, really bad as a kid. By the school too kind of, because at the time it seemed that all the adults were totally oblivious, I can't even count how many times I got in trouble for getting my ass kicked, while the kid(s) that did the beating got away free. They considered me a problem child who always got in trouble, yet I was a nerdy skinny kid who wasn't much of an athlete that got his ass kicked every recess, gym class, trip in the halls, etc...

A lot of the stuff has been forgotten now. A couple months back some of my classmates had been posting old grade school photos on facebook. I had completely forgotten a guy that had committed suicide in 6th-7th grade. The coversation people were having, I see it so differently....I cheered the day it happened; I imagine that still messes me up to this day, I have to logically tell myself I should feel bad about it. That guy kicked my ass every day over the period of several years and made my life a horror for most of grade school. He was by far the worst bully. And the way bullying works is that there is a ringleader and a herd of followers. Most of the people that do it wouldn't do it if there wasn't someone else that started it.

In the end the adults couldn't or didn't do anything about it. Maybe times have changed, but when I was young they were oblivious to it or didn't care, the only person that could stop or even slow it is the person getting bullied. Generally when a bully gets in trouble for bullying he doubles down on the next beating. Telling on someone was just as way to get your ass kicked even harder.

(I imagine this subject has made me quite neurotic, in many ways my childhood is a very painful memory and I have nearly shut out elementry school, things are coming back though as I think about the future for my son).

What stopped it for me, and stopped it pretty quick, started with a teacher. He got that I was getting bullied, but still treated it like I was the problem in any official capacity, to the principle, to the bullies, even to my parents I think (my parents thought that I was a problem child because of what the school told them). But he took me aside one day and told me that I really just needed to beat the crap out of one of them one day, and it would stop. It wasn't a long talk, only like 5 minutes or so, but shortly thereafter I convinced my parents to let me learn Tae Kwon Do. It all ended pretty quick from there. I was one of the people that REALLY got a lot out of the classes. At first it actually got worse because they all had to test me, but eventually there was that watershed moment where I beat the snot out of someone that was picking on me, and that teacher was right. That was more or less the end of it.

Though I did get in a fair number of fights afterwards, most of the time it was in defense of my friends that were getting bullied. I pretty quickly became unbeatable in a fight (at least among the kids at school) because of TKD. Even if guys were bigger and stronger, I was way faster, knew what I was doing, and could react on instinct (unless you know how to throw good combos or have the element of surprise, actually punching a trained fighter is a near impossibility).

A lot of parents fear their kids becoming bullies if they learn martial arts (my parents did) but it isn't much of a concern. Every kid knows how to throw a punch. Very, very few know how to block effectively. The offense that you do learn is in general useful for beating effective blocking, which is by and large useless in a schoolyard fight.

[Thrillho]

What happened to you does not change that what's happening to him is not okay.

Absolutely true, which is why I have talked with the supervisors, talked with the teachers, and talked with the principle. The kid that kicked him got suspended, the kids that stole his boots had a little chat with the principal and then apologized, and that's where the boundaries have now been set by the observers, by the other kids: everything UP TO, but not including that, is ok. Which is why everything now is just taunting and similar bullshit. I know it's not acceptable, but I also know at no point in his life is he likely to move beyond it. At my last company, staffed by many smart, capable people and with tens of millions of dollars in annual business, there are people who think that 'oh, we're just joking' verbal abuse is fine. University, college, high school, keep going back and it's still there.

The school, I think, genuinely thinks they are taking it seriously, because they're educators, and by definition do not understand how kids ARE, but only how kids SHOULD be. Some pink shirts, an assembly or two, and talking about how 'bullying is not cool' is as far forward as they can think.

EDIT: Waldo, wow, that's almost word for word how many of my school years were (although the alpha prick didn't commit suicide, he got a girl pregnant and left the province... slightly more acceptable to laugh and cheer at). I was put into martial arts as well, but because my dad is SOOOOOOOO smart, he put me in martial arts with the kid that stabbed me. I was terrified almost every single night. It took a long time for me to internalize everything, but one day in grade ten I got pushed too far, literally, and just drove one kid's head into a locker so hard I knocked him out. I was suspended, but the principal took me aside after everyone had dispersed and quietly said "And good for you." Most of the physical crap stopped after that, and suddenly the verbal and emotional crap didn't seem so bad anymore. I'd almost be relieved if there was more physical stuff, because then I wouldn't feel bad saying "Ok, you're twice his size, just hit him with a chair."