Which Is Preferable: Ignorance/Happiness, Knowledge/Unhappiness?

[reboundstudent]

"Ignorance is bliss."

Over the weekend, I picked up a book recommended on another forum I go to called "The Tao of Dating." I spent most of the weekend tearing my hair out in frustration over the nonsensical logic, and cursing the day I threw $10 down the hole on such trash. But I kept reading it. Why? Because even though it makes me angry and unhappy, I don't want to deny the possibility of useful knowledge. I would rather be knowledgeable and unhappy, than ignorant and happy.

The people close to me really don't understand this tendency. They think I should stop questioning things, because it makes me feel miserable... I should stop seeking out the answer as to why I'm unpopular, and stop focusing on it, in favor of being more "positive." But if I stop focusing on it and seeking the answer, then I'll never fix it, and I'll be "happy" only out of ignorance.

Does anyone else have this problem? Is the man who knows nothing happier than the man who knows everything? Between the two choices, which would you rather be? Is knowledge inherently destructive?

[shutterpillar]

I am in your same boat... I like to know things. It drives me nuts if I DON'T know things. I research, I read, I investigate every. single. topic. I come across so I am able to know everything I can about that topic. Even if it makes me extremely unhappy, such as in the case of being in a relationship when you find out you are being cheated on. (which is a scenario I have been in). In that case, I would much rather know the situation because if I am just running around happy and ignorant, it actually makes me (in my opinion) look like an idiot because I didnt know this stuff was going on behind my back. And then I spend God knows how many years in this relationship thinking everything is fine when its not.

there are so many different scenarios for the "ignorance is bliss" statement, but I am pretty sure I would rather know everything I need to know about the situation/topic, even if it makes me unhappy, than go about my business in an ignorant state with a smile on my face.

[morethanjustamom]

I'm another one of those who HAS to know as much as possible about everything...drives my super spontaneous/take each moment as it comes hubby bananas!

I always ruin surprises, I ruined my hubby's proposal to me because he was being cryptic about us "needing to talk", and I assumed that meant breaking up and I made him tell me because I'm sure he thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown with my not-knowing syndrome, lol.

I have lots of acquaintances who have no desire to think about anything, question anything, or learn anything knew; I cannot fathom living like that, but I guess it's their personality just like having to know/learn/question is mine.

[Elastigirl]

This is the nerd fitness fourm. And while there are many definitions of nerd (gamer Satr Wars fanatic etc) I think one of the common bonds of nerdiness is the quest for knowledge. We always have to know the why of something. And we often drive our non nerd friends nutty with it.

[adampm]

True about the wanting to know being part of the 'nerd' personality.

The other thing is to keep in mind is which is actually going to make you happier in the long term. Sure finding out something unpleasant may lead to some unhappiness but if you can use that information to make and your life better than in the long term it's a gain.

If you try to act positive when you aren't feeling it your probably going to come off as a fake. It's usually better to be yourself with all the warts and what not showing rather than pretending to be somebody else. The people you matter to will understand the people who don't you'll be better off without.

[Durandal]

I definitely agree that ignorance is NOT bliss, but that knowledge should be useful in some way to making yourself happier. Happiness by feeling better, or by finding a goal worth pursuing, or by realizing that your own opinion matters more than everyone else's. I think it's certainly possible to know more than you really need to know about most things, including nutrition and exercise. If turning over every stone is making you feel miserable, consider how much you really need to know to live a happy life. I personally see my efforts to leveling up as steps on a path to a better life - which means if I feel like shit half the time, then its time for me to rethink things. It'd be impossible for me to sustain a happy life without knowing what I'm doing, but I try not to let knowledge get in the way of happiness.

[Daffy]

I think one of the common bonds of nerdiness is the quest for knowledge. We always have to know the why of something.

Agreed!

I don't think knowledge is at odds with happiness. For the past couple of years I've been casually studying Positive Psychology, which I think has only helped my happiness.

If I had to choose between ignorance/bliss or knowledge/unhappiness, then I would go with happiness. Isn't that what we want in the end? Why do people want money, fame, health, and all that? I think it's ultimately all about happiness, so happiness is the #1 priority.

The funny thing about happiness is that the happiest of people are often the ones who don't pursue happiness directly. It's more of an indirect benefit of pursuing our passions in life.

[Conk]

I always go by these sayings:

"Hate what is evil; cling to what is good."

"test everything; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil."

The base is: Do not be ignorant of good things, but purposefully be ignorant of the evil things.

Example: the more you understand how diet and exercise improve your Quality of Life, the more you are willing to do them. On the contrary, the less you know about making and selling meth, the less likely you are to take part in it.

Motto: NF saves. Meth kills.

[demonslayer]

Motto: NF saves. Meth kills.

A good motto. Of course it is better to be knowledgeable than to be ignorant, even if knowledge leads to disillusionment. But even in the "real" world, bared and ugly as it is, good things can be found, and I think it's important to focus on those things. It's better to be happy about the things that are genuinely good and sad about the things that are genuinely bad (or better yet, work to fix them if possible), than to just pretend everything is all right when it's not.

[bigm141414]

Happiness is overrated.

My take on this is always that Knowledge causes suffering, but leads to Understanding which is the cause of contentment and peace. You can't be happy with just Knowledge.

[oystergirl]

Here are a few thoughts from a wise woman..lol

Christiane Northrup of womens bodies women's wisdom fame wrote something that really made me stop and think. We have not evolved emotionally and mentally to handle the whoas of the whole world. We were meant to manage the whoas of our family and small tribal group. Now with 24 hour news cycles and instant access to information we are constantly bombarded by information, news, new ways of thinking and constant input to the brain without giving the brain time to process. Having an emotional response to everyone elses lives and situations is so draining you will never get over that cycle.

I decided many years ago to put a moratorium on watching television and the news. I knew, and this has been pretty true over the years, that if something happened that I needed to a even talk to her. The anger she has over things she cannot control is simply ridiculous.

I believe truly that we were meant to be happy. That life was meant to be a challenge for the enjoyment of overcoming that challenge. Life is not meant to be a struggle, but we create a lot of that with our belief that we can iron fistedly control what is happening. We can't. I have learned that very pointedly over the past month with 5 of my dear friends all in the hospital for life threatening issues. I am observing their situation, but I am not going through their situation. I am NOT them and because I am an energetic empath, I HAVE to be very careful not to fall into their energy and FEEL what they are feeling.

I believe you will be drawn to learn and know what is important for you. When beginning something if it FEELS good that is your intuition telling you it is correct. If it feels bad, you owe it to yourself, to stop.

[Lachy]

Knowledge is power. With great power comes great responsibility. Therefore, with great knowledge comes great responsibility. I don't know where I'm going with this, I thought by now I'd have something.

Most of us here are nerds, nerds are knowledge hungry people, we value the persuit of knowledge more than the bliss of ignorance. I don't think knowledge has to make you unhappy though. You choose what to do with your knowledge. Use it to enhance yourself and make your life awesome or use it to dwell on the shortcomings of the world and depress yourself.

[morethanjustamom]

Knowledge is power. With great power comes great responsibility. Therefore, with great knowledge comes great responsibility. I don't know where I'm going with this, I thought by now I'd have something.

Most of us here are nerds, nerds are knowledge hungry people, we value the persuit of knowledge more than the bliss of ignorance. I don't think knowledge has to make you unhappy though. You choose what to do with your knowledge. Use it to enhance yourself and make your life awesome or use it to dwell on the shortcomings of the world and depress yourself.

This is what I was getting at, in a much less eloquent way.

[reboundstudent]

Knowledge is power. With great power comes great responsibility. Therefore, with great knowledge comes great responsibility. I don't know where I'm going with this, I thought by now I'd have something.

Most of us here are nerds, nerds are knowledge hungry people, we value the persuit of knowledge more than the bliss of ignorance. I don't think knowledge has to make you unhappy though. You choose what to do with your knowledge. Use it to enhance yourself and make your life awesome or use it to dwell on the shortcomings of the world and depress yourself.

Learn long and prosper?

It's mostly the pursuit of the knowledge that makes me unhappy. In my own personal life, it's trying to figure out why I am unpopular and seen as unattractive. I've been seeking this knowledge for a long time, and a lot of people just don't get it... why I don't just "accept myself." Well, why accept a broken thing when you could figure out how it's broken and fix it? But actually getting to that point of "figuring out how to fix it" has been very emotionally draining.

[Philociraptor]

Learn long and prosper?

It's mostly the pursuit of the knowledge that makes me unhappy. In my own personal life, it's trying to figure out why I am unpopular and seen as unattractive. I've been seeking this knowledge for a long time, and a lot of people just don't get it... why I don't just "accept myself." Well, why accept a broken thing when you could figure out how it's broken and fix it? But actually getting to that point of "figuring out how to fix it" has been very emotionally draining.

It seems to me that you're not going to find that in a book. While it may be hard to hear from them, you need to talk to the people around you. Ask them not to sugar-coat it and tell you why, in their option, you are having problems socially. Be specific. Specificity gives you a much better chance at a good, useable answer.

[reboundstudent]

It seems to me that you're not going to find that in a book. While it may be hard to hear from them, you need to talk to the people around you. Ask them not to sugar-coat it and tell you why, in their option, you are having problems socially. Be specific. Specificity gives you a much better chance at a good, useable answer.

Actually, that's what lead to this thread. I asked a few of my friends, and that all said that my "dwelling" on why I'm unpopular (aka, looking for answers) is the reason I'm unpopular! It's some major chicken-or-the-egg business. Anyway, my friends say it's unattractive, and drives people away, which gives me a negative attitude, which drives people away further. I just wondered if I was alone in the tendency to search for answers, even if it drives people around me up the wall.

[Philociraptor]

Actually, that's what lead to this thread. I asked a few of my friends, and that all said that my "dwelling" on why I'm unpopular (aka, looking for answers) is the reason I'm unpopular! It's some major chicken-or-the-egg business. Anyway, my friends say it's unattractive, and drives people away, which gives me a negative attitude, which drives people away further. I just wondered if I was alone in the tendency to search for answers, even if it drives people around me up the wall.

So you have some data and a hypothesis. Have you tested it? Let people think what they think and try not to dwell on it? Just get to know people and be yourself?

[morethanjustamom]

So you have some data and a hypothesis. Have you tested it? Let people think what they think and try not to dwell on it? Just get to know people and be yourself?

I agree with this, and I'll add that you have a few friends, therefore your are NOT unpopular. Perhaps you have been rejected by a certain group, but you do have friends. Be thankful for them.

Besides my husband, I have only one real friend. My hobbies, parenting methods, and health choices tend to seem strange to people in the area where I live, but I'm ok with that. I'm able to have pleasant conversations in social situations, but there are very few people I truly feel close to. I've been told I think too much, because I like to research and learn about new ways to eat, live sustainably, stay in shape, etc. I like who I am...if that means I have fewer friends, so be it.

The real question here is: Do you like who you are as a person? Do you believe in everything you do, every choice you make? Once you do, popularity becomes inconsequential.

[Lachy]

rebound, that's a tough situation. You aren't alone, so don't fret on that. I would question if the people who consider you unpopular are really worth your time. Some people just simply don't mesh. Some people get along with a great many people, and some people get along with only a precious few. I feel that the smaller your circle, the stronger the bond though!

Also, if that's something people react negatively to, don't share it with them. Keep your knowledge persuit to yourself.

[aj_rock]

reboundstudent, I think you should visit doctornerdlove.com

Even if your problems aren't romantic, he does delve deeply down into the depths of darkness that is a dweeb's soul.

Know that if you think there is a problem, then there IS a problem; it just might not be the one you're thinking of. Seeking help is always the first step. Ironically, the thirst for knowledge and information should lead you to a solution anyways

On a different philosophical note, you have to realize that 'happiness' as an idea is NOT the only thing worth striving for in life. After all, how can one even know what 'happiness' is, without experiencing hardship, suffering and sadness? Someone who deems their life to be 100% happy, 100% of the time, is not happy.

Anyway, I suggest you look up subjective well being on wiki and just jump around from there. Might just change your definition of what the 'good life' is.

[Lachy]

Oh, I hate that drnerdlove site. I find it patronising. To each their own, you may find answers there.

[reboundstudent]

reboundstudent, I think you should visit doctornerdlove.com

Even if your problems aren't romantic, he does delve deeply down into the depths of darkness that is a dweeb's soul.

Know that if you think there is a problem, then there IS a problem; it just might not be the one you're thinking of. Seeking help is always the first step. Ironically, the thirst for knowledge and information should lead you to a solution anyways

On a different philosophical note, you have to realize that 'happiness' as an idea is NOT the only thing worth striving for in life. After all, how can one even know what 'happiness' is, without experiencing hardship, suffering and sadness? Someone who deems their life to be 100% happy, 100% of the time, is not happy.

Anyway, I suggest you look up subjective well being on wiki and just jump around from there. Might just change your definition of what the 'good life' is.

I do quite like Dr. Nerdlove, and I think he has a lot of interesting insights... but I've found it kind of useless from a female nerd side of things. Very male centric. Maybe it's this assumption that female nerds must be swimming in options. The subtle impression I always got is that if you are female, and have nerdy interests, the ONLY reason you're single is because either 1) you want to be or 2) you are a grotesque beast. Anybody else get that feeling? Fantastic for male nerds, though, I recommend it to all my single guy friends.

I'll definitely check out the subjective well being article, thank you!!

Oh, I hate that drnerdlove site. I find it patronising. To each their own, you may find answers there.

What about it strikes you as patronizing, out of curiosity?

[Atalan]

I do quite like Dr. Nerdlove, and I think he has a lot of interesting insights... but I've found it kind of useless from a female nerd side of things. Very male centric. Maybe it's this assumption that female nerds must be swimming in options. The subtle impression I always got is that if you are female, and have nerdy interests, the ONLY reason you're single is because either 1) you want to be or 2) you are a grotesque beast. Anybody else get that feeling? Fantastic for male nerds, though, I recommend it to all my single guy friends.

I'll definitely check out the subjective well being article, thank you!!

What about it strikes you as patronizing, out of curiosity?

I can see where it could be patronizing since some of the stuff is at such a base level of life or social competency that no one should need the advice (however, I've needed it, so...).

I think he writes mostly to men as an audience because he is, himself, a man, who went through the growth process he's trying to guide people through. Maybe you could suggest he have a woman who went through something similar write for Monday or Friday and they collaborate to answer the Wednesday letters?

[aj_rock]

He said he's working on some female-centric posts coming up actually. I also challenge anyone to dispense such advice as he does without coming off at least a bit patronizing.

The stuff he's written about self-confidence and what not always seemed spot on to me though. I'd put more effort into the subjective well being

[oystergirl]

I just wonder, if you have friends, then how can you say you are unpopular?

I think everyone at some point in their lives wants what they can't have, or wants what they THINK they need to be happy. I guess I have been around long enough to have been popular, WAY popular, unpopular, abused, bullied, loved unconditionally, adored, hated, envied, teased, looked up to and looked to for guidance. There have been benefits and draw backs to all these states of being, but I entered them all knowing I was different than others. I too felt Unique was not the place to be, and fitting in an conforming was the way to go...i wanted for a period of time in my life to be the SAME and eventually learned that I couldnt have been more wrong.

What I found out finally was that I felt best when I was doing the least amount of "changing" to fit in.

You are perfect that way you are, unless you have major emotional issues from deep seated events in your life that need a professional therapist or doctor to balance (which I highly recommend and support, no one should go through traumatic stress or emotional imbalance alone!) then no amount of changing or pretending to be something you are not will make you happy. At the end of the day, learning to SIT with yourself, in silence and accept, hey, I am like this and those who love me will love me and will come to me and those who don't are simply missing out, well, then you have found your Zen baby and you will be in the center of self love.

In the dark of night and our loneliest hour, WE are all we have, and being in love with US is the most important thing.