The pullups thread

[thatgirljj]

Always aim for complete, can't-do-one-more-pullup burnout, then do a little bit more to hit actual-burnout repeatedly. Those last few pullups are the ones that do the most good building your maximum capability.

I'm going to stick my neck out and disagree with this. At least for people who are doing pull-ups for general fitness, and no military fitness tests. The problem is, the muscles in your shoulder girdle that can fail when you "burnout" are the tiny rotator cuff muscles and other stabilizers. You really don't want to damage those muscles for the long term health of your shoulders.

I prefer a "greasing the groove" approach where you have that pull-up bar in an accessible part of your house and you do one pull-up (or 2 pull-ups or one negative) 3-4 times a day. Then maybe once a week or once every two weeks, go ahead and push yourself to do as many as you can. Those low intensity pull-ups done with perfect form will help strengthen the stabilizer muscles of your shoulder and make sure they're up to the challenge of higher intensity.

-jj

[ETFnerd]

^ i agree with this. i hurt my shoulder trying to reach for too many reps at too high a weight...

[Atalan]

This logic just makes me even weaker! I've only got about 130 lbs. to haul up to the bar and I can't do it yet!!

Yeah, yeah I know...women have less upper body strength that men. I'm going to go do some more stinking negatives, then.

I remember learning in a Forensic Anthropology/Osteology that women are stronger per lbs of lean bodyweight. But, men can put on a lot more lean bodyweight.

[Anivair]

^ i agree with this. i hurt my shoulder trying to reach for too many reps at too high a weight...

Same here. Aim for when your form suffers and you have trouble getting yourself up.

[morethanjustamom]

I remember learning in a Forensic Anthropology/Osteology that women are stronger per lbs of lean bodyweight. But, men can put on a lot more lean bodyweight.

It was supposed to be tongue in cheek, but that's a very interesting factoid.

[Quickdraw]

Apologies for the disappearing act everyone. I can longer access NF directly, but my lovely wife is relaying the contents of the thread to me. So I'm just going to address everything from the top down.

Thrillho: What you want to do is target the exact point of weakness where you stop being able to complete the motion of the pullup. Starting from a dead hang, attempt to pull up. When you can't go any further, that's your point of weakness. Concentrate a negative at that spot. Using a boost, step, low-hanging bar, whatever, start yourself at that position and attempt to move ONLY through the few inches immediately around your point of failure. This is how I broke the Zero Barrier myself.

As noted later down the thread from your initial posts, weight will have a huge impact. The difference between my two-years-ago PR of 17 and my new current PR of 22 is probably MOSTLY the ~20 lbs I've lost in that time (192 then, ~170 now). Conversely I know a Marine who's 6'10" and 320 lbs and does 13 pullups. Which I thought was impressive, because weighted down to 320 I probably couldn't pull up enough to bend my elbows.

With the diet changes you're making, you should be shedding those pounds and ready to rock some pullups in short order. Until you get to that first pullup, keep doing those negatives: use that extra body weight as a training tool!

ETF: Damn, that's impressive man. You climb rocks or something? All the guys I know with PRs that high are serious rock climbers.

MTJAM: Glad to have your help over in the challenge squad, I hope I'm able to help you reach that pullup goal!

Denny: If you're not coming to dead hang, then "proper" isn't really the word to use; however far down you WANT to come is "correct." Personally I'm a fan of nothing but pure dead-hangs, though. On the other hand, I am being scored on them as a professional matter (and a non-dead-hang doesn't count). If you're really looking to get outside the normal range of motion, though, I'd suggest trying to pull UP further: don't just stop when your chin crosses the bar, pull until the bar is touching your chest.

Good advice for MTJAM with the inverted shrug, that actually helps quite a bit. Also, for women, the Marine Corps fitness test is actually a timed negative rather than counted pullups. Quite a few of the female Marines I know who score a perfect 70 seconds on that test can also do several (or many!) actual dead-hang pullups, so I suspect there's some relationship between the two.

SomeoneOrOther: All good advice, especially the mental stuff which I utilize but didn't think to put in my own post. Thanks! I'm gonna have to try tucking my chin and see where that gets me. Be cautious with that one, though; I see a lot of guys turning that into "bar goes behind the head" which turns into "whack your upper spine on the bar just below your neck."

I've been party to a lot of debate over thumb/no-thumb. I find my grip slipping (even with taped bars) to be an issue if I go no-thumb, though.

Deanna: Somewhat depends on the style of door frame in your house. I have and like the hang-from-top-of-door-frame kind; my brother has one where it actually screws into the doorframe itself. Basically all the weight winds up pulling DOWN against the studs behind, so you just use some heavy-duty screws. I'll have my wife check brands on what I have back home and get back to you soon.

161803398874989: Agreed, "chin over the bar" is indeed a pretty bad standard. A lot of Marines fall victim to training this way, because that's the scoreable "top" of the motion. Generally when I'm aiming for a point past that, I'll try to touch the bar to my chest 3-4" below the clavicle.

LessJos: The treadmill idea is certainly an option, if you're currently doing none or VERY few; building higher reps requires your full body weight, though. If you're really desperate for a bar, you might try properly-sized ledges. Since you're rural, if you can build, you could try sinking two 12'-14' wooden poles (maybe 4x4s) so there's about 10' of wood above ground (make sure to sink enough to give it stability, as your whole weight is gonna be swinging against this), drill a good sized hole near the top of each, and jam a heavy metal pipe through there between them (standard Marine Corps outdoor pullup bars, EVERYWHERE on bases).

thatgirljj: Perhaps "ALWAYS" was a bit strong for my actual advice; that was a carryover from my original guide being written for a friend who needed pullups FAST before shipping off to boot camp. I'd probably advocate full-on burnout more like 2-3 times a week, but I'm not saying "done as a single max-effort set," here either.

I definitely agree with the greasing-the-groove method. Form is indeed important too. I apologize for getting a bit tunnel-vision on the subject at times; I do get swept up in the quest for Quantity Over Quality since my pullup count actually impacts my career. You've inspired me to make my next few pullup workouts more form-focused, thanks.

[nickls]

I am curious about the differences between a chin-up (palms facing you) and a pull-up (palms away). Just did a quick search, seems there are some differing opinions as to which is "better" or less likely to cause injury. Anyone have any insight into this?

And are chin-ups generally easier for most people than pull-ups? That was the sense I got from reading one article and comments.

[bigm141414]

I am curious about the differences between a chin-up (palms facing you) and a pull-up (palms away). Just did a quick search, seems there are some differing opinions as to which is "better" or less likely to cause injury. Anyone have any insight into this?

And are chin-ups generally easier for most people than pull-ups? That was the sense I got from reading one article and comments.

Chin ups use more biceps than pull ups so they are easier since more muscles are used to get you up (that bicep is pretty beefy). Pull ups are mostly a lat/back exercise and as such this is why people struggle. Both are great and really don't cause injury when performed properly.