Song of Ice and Fire discussion (spoilers)

[airen123]

Anyone who has read all 5 books through Dance with Dragons up for some discussion? Conspiracy theories, and what not? Rereading the first one now, and sooo many things are obvious now.

[Max Power]

Yes please,

What did you think of the fifth book? I was a little disappointed in it, kind of had to force myself to finish it.

[Lightstorm]

I think I read them all too quickly. I can remember the main plot points, but I've lost a good few storylines somewhere in there. i think I'll need a proper re-read through.

[bigm141414]

ARGH! Jon Snow! What hte hell! Will no Stark survive this series?

And I think Melisandre will give him the lord's kiss similar to how The Red Priest Moros resurrected Berric Dondarion and Catelyn Stark.

Edit: Man that feels good to get off my chest. Not many people around me have read all 5.

[airen123]

Yes please,

What did you think of the fifth book? I was a little disappointed in it, kind of had to force myself to finish it.

I though was better than AFFC-that one is a bit long winded. I hated Daenyres lover-waste of time. And felt bad for the Martell kid.

And...Jon Snow is not dead. He is R'hllor or the Prince that was Promised...son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and one of the dragon riders...

[airen123]

Or he wargs into Ghost. Plenty of warging hints.

Melisandre kept telling him to keep Ghost nearby...or was glamoured like Mance Rayder. Too many "I look into the fire to see whoever and all I see is Jon Snow".

[bigm141414]

I though was better than AFFC-that one is a bit long winded. I hated Daenyres lover-waste of time. And felt bad for the Martell kid.

And...Jon Snow is not dead. He is R'hllor or the Prince that was Promised...son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, and one of the dragon riders...

But he was stabbed so many times! Jon Snow and Arya are my main reasons for reading.

I was not a fan of Quentin and very glad he got killed off. His sister is a much more interesting character. She is like a combination of Cersei and Tyrion: Cersei's blind ambition but with Tyrion's sense of subtly for difficult situations.

[airen123]

Tyrion is Tywin's true child and the twins are half Lannisters. The aunt told Tyrion that he was his father's true child-think this was at Riverrun...

Tyrion becomes the Hand to Danerys...or foreshadowing from first book, "When he opened the door, the light from within threw his shadow clear across the yard, and for just a moment Tyrion Lannister stood tall as a king.”

I firmly believe everything has a meaning intended by GRRM. Like Alleras the Sphinx is really Sarella, a Sand Snake...so small but shows everything in those books mean something.

[airen123]

But he was stabbed so many times! Jon Snow and Arya are my main reasons for reading.

I was not a fan of Quentin and very glad he got killed off. His sister is a much more interesting character. She is like a combination of Cersei and Tyrion: Cersei's blind ambition but with Tyrion's sense of subtly for difficult situations.

When asked in an interview about his death, GRRM said "Oh, you think he's dead don't you?" http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/

His wound was "smoking", thus blood of fire was running through him, reinforcing that he is Targaryen. His direwolf Ghost is white, so he would ride the white dragon.

[knifeboots]

When asked in an interview about his death, GRRM said "Oh, you think he's dead don't you?" http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/

His wound was "smoking", thus blood of fire was running through him, reinforcing that he is Targaryen. His direwolf Ghost is white, so he would ride the white dragon.

So... was Jon's mother actually a Targaryen, is that what you're saying? Isn't Jon's mother Wylla? Did we ever find out what family she came from? I read the books last year, clearly I need to re-read.

[airen123]

So... was Jon's mother actually a Targaryen, is that what you're saying? Isn't Jon's mother Wylla? Did we ever find out what family she came from? I read the books last year, clearly I need to re-read.

Targaryen because Rhaegar raped or had an affair with Lyanna, Ned Stark's sister. I found it too hard to believe a man of such honor like Ned would cheat on Catelyn. The timeline fits. When Lyanna asks Ned a favor to get her home to be buried at Winterfell, there was a ton of blood imagery when Ned looks back to reflect upon this in GoT=represents bloody childbirth.

Also referenced how Jon has Stark face, and Arya is referred to look like Lyanna. That's what I've been thinking.

[airen123]

But he was stabbed so many times! Jon Snow and Arya are my main reasons for reading.

I was not a fan of Quentin and very glad he got killed off. His sister is a much more interesting character. She is like a combination of Cersei and Tyrion: Cersei's blind ambition but with Tyrion's sense of subtly for difficult situations.

Arriane? I can't wait to see who they cast her as. Supposed to be really pretty.

[Max Power]

When asked in an interview about his death, GRRM said "Oh, you think he's dead don't you?" http://shelf-life.ew.com/2011/07/21/dance-with-dragons-shocking-twist-g/

His wound was "smoking", thus blood of fire was running through him, reinforcing that he is Targaryen. His direwolf Ghost is white, so he would ride the white dragon.

I like that about the white dragon, I hadn't thought of that one.

My issue with the last book was that it didn't really get anywhere, Tyrion just wandered the whole time, Danerys' whole story line was a waste. Bran, who is my favorite character only had two or three chapters in the whole book. Arya and Jon were entertaining, but we saw how Jon's ended, and Arya didn't really get anywhere either.

I wonder if George RR Martin isn't going to use HBO's Game of Thrones to finish the story, in case he passes on before finishing the books.

[jswbach]

I had to re-read the entire series after Book 5 came out, because it was totally confusing to me. Glad I did, but I still don't like how GRRM did books 4 and 5. I like the speculations here about Jon Snow - no way he's going to stay dead! Book 6 better come out sooner rather than later, or I may get stabby.

[airen123]

I know....GRRM not getting any younger. Hope doesn't turn into Girl With the Dragon Tattoo unfinished series.

[Max Power]

I just wonder if they make a season per book then they have three more years of material, unless GRRM has a lot of stuff written up and just needs to edit it, I can only see him getting one more book out before they have made all the books.

Did anyone else just completely loathe any and everything to do with Reek/Theon in the last couple of books? I would have to force myself to read through those chapters.

[airen123]

Season 2 is supposedly combo of Book 2 and 3. Not sure if the smartest move.

I hated those chapters, but hated that I actually liked him toward the end, because he redeemed some humanity for rescuing Jeyne...Ramsay is scary.

[Max Power]

Yeah, he did start to redeem himself, but he hasn't quite broken free from Ramsey yet.

GRRM does have a way of turning characters around. From how little I cared for Jaime in the beginning to me actually looking forward to his chapters by the end of book five is covering a pretty good gap.

[airen123]

There's an excerpt from the Winds of Winter-book 6 on GRRM's site if you haven't already checked it out...

[Morrigainz]

I obviously need to re-read the books, even though I just finished book 5 when it came out. I miss things that all y'all are picking up...

[aj_rock]

JUST noticed this discussion! So my two cents are getting tossed in the pot

- speculation over living and dying, in Martin's own words, is kinda silly. He went so far as to say 'The final book will be a 1,000 page description of the wind howling over their graves.' Every man dies. Not every man truly lives

- Jon isn't dead, and I have a feeling his fate as of now is tied into wargness and bran. He is also most definitely Lyanna's son, and I also don't think Rhaegar raped her. Remember now, King Robert was a clueless buffoon. I would not be surprised if she ran off with Rhaegar and Robert took that the wrong way. But he's definitely targaryan

- I kinda agree with whoever said that Tyrion will end up as hand (or at least advisor) to daeny. I don't feel like her chapters were a waste at all, and neither were the ones of Tyrion. The way Martin tells his stories, they both changed personality wise quite a bit in this time. Sure it was a transitional period, but so was AFFC. Both AFFC and DWD were a little weak, I agree, but WOW has been set-up to be truly astounding, I feel.

- I have no idea how Melisandre will end up fitting into all of this, but I feel that Jon will have to kill her.

- WHY U GUYS NO REMEMBER ARYA?? She has a role to play yet...

[adampm]

I know....GRRM not getting any younger. Hope doesn't turn into Girl With the Dragon Tattoo unfinished series.

He'd be more along the lines of Robert Jordan. He had the same issues with his books in that they just kept winding around and never really going anywhere. He'd sort of take steps to advance the plot but then he'd add more sub-plots and main characters wouldn't be touched for an enitre 700+ page book.

[airen123]

Arya is obviously in training as a soldier. A soldier for what? Perhaps Bran wargs into the dragon that Jon Snow flies. I would love Arya to fly the other dragon, brandishing Needle, but can't quite figure out how would fit...

[NotBadForAHuman]

Arya is a warg, I'm convinced of it - her dreams of Nymeria, her dreams of being the cats in the castles - she's as much a warg as Bran and Jon; and I think she, Jon, and Dany are the dragon with 3 heads.

I also think that Melisandre will bring Jon back, and that he is R'hllor.

I re-read 1 through 4 in prep for 5, but I think now I need to go back and read 3-5. Might as well, it'll only be another 5 years...

[knifeboots]

Targaryen because Rhaegar raped or had an affair with Lyanna, Ned Stark's sister. I found it too hard to believe a man of such honor like Ned would cheat on Catelyn. The timeline fits. When Lyanna asks Ned a favor to get her home to be buried at Winterfell, there was a ton of blood imagery when Ned looks back to reflect upon this in GoT=represents bloody childbirth.

Also referenced how Jon has Stark face, and Arya is referred to look like Lyanna. That's what I've been thinking.

Now THAT is an interesting theory! I like that. And Jon and Arya are also said to favor each other, too, out of the Stark children - the rest tend to take after the Tully heritage.