Dangers of comparison-number envy

[nickls]

A lot of the premise of Nerd Fitness is based on numbers: increasing your reps, increasing your lift weights, decreasing your race times, decreasing your BF%, etc, etc. Nerds like numbers, and it's a great way to measure your progress and set defined goals.

Unfortunately, it seems to me there is an inherent downside to numbers too, which I noticed during the squad challenges and have been thinking about for a while. Fitness is inherently personal, as everyone's body is different. So comparing yourself to other people's numbers can be dangerous, even though it's a natural instinct. It can easily take you past pushing yourself harder and making more progress to going past the limit and setting yourself back. This can also happen trying to move up too fast to beat your own numbers, but I think the extra competition of being directly compared to others makes it a lot more likely, as people naturally try harder for an audience.

I guess this also ties into the Crossfit debate over how hard is too hard to push yourself, and how you know when you should push harder or dial it back to avoid injury.

Another element is that in the context of squad challenges or leaderboards, it is pretty easy to get discouraged when you see that your number is some tiny fraction of other people's. If you're going to compare, you really need to be comparing to somebody who is in the same "league" or "weight class".

So I guess my question is, do competitions like the ones I mentioned have more upside than downside? And how do you know the right speed at which to progress and push yourself? And does this have implications for some of the challenges that we are running on NF?

[Pheidippides]

I actually have thought about this a fair amount. I cranked out some pretty high numbers on the jump rope challenge, but jumping rope has been a standard for me for years. I was afraid a super competitive, but not experienced person might hurt themselves trying to crank out similar numbers. Planking and Jump Rope are both pretty tame exercises that are hard to over work. Spezzy has been very smart in that. But should a challenge be something like most weight lifted for given exercise, problems and injuries would definitely come up. Newbies would compare themselves to Veterans and over work.

I find the challenges motivating, but maybe a handicap system could be put into place? It would be a shame to loose the competitive aspect all together, but I have trouble thinking of a better alternative than what is in place right now.

[WizardTrip]

I know exactly what you're saying! I do look at the big numbers and aim to get to that level. Yesterday was a prime example of me pushing my limits at an already exhausted level just to get it done, and boom....lower back is really tight and sore, and now I'll have to rest it for awhile. However, I do tend to look at it in both, who is in my "league" and in my "weight class" (and I do see those as very different things). As an example, I'm pushing myself to be able to DL on the level of Knightwatch, andygates, and chairokey, but they are in a different "league" than me at this point. Knightwatch and I are in the same "weight class", but I view him as being well ahead of me overall. As another example, in a recent discussion in another thread with Bigm...we see each other as competition for this virtual meet, but in reality, Bigm is ahead of me. We're lifting similar weights in the DL, but I out weigh him by a decent bit.

I do see the competitions as a positive, but that is because I realistically know what level I'm at vs others. If you fail to see it, get discouraged, or have pride issues, that's when it becomes a problem, but those things will happen.

[nickls]

Yeah, the planking and jump rope were definitely well-chosen, as they were accessible to almost everyone and didn't have much risk as you said. But even with those, I saw some comments from people about being so sore that it impacted their daily routine. I know I came close to overdoing it on the jump rope, because I am still working on getting my knee back to 100% and I definitely taxed it more than I usually would.

I really like the challenges as well, but do wish there could be guidelines that would give you a better sense of accomplishment even if you are on the lower end. Maybe some kind of benchmark or level system like:

planks: Level 1 - 3 x 10 s every other day

planks: Level 5 - 5 x 30 s every other day

With some more filled in, so at least people who have never done the exercise before have a better idea of where to start, and might feel better on only putting up a few minutes of total planks while some people have done an hour or more.

Also for something like the upcoming weightlifting meet, instead of just weight classes, there could also be divisions for beginner, intermediate, advanced, although I don't know what the criteria for the divisions would be exactly.

[katscratch]

Reading through the challenge threads, I've been thinking about this as well. I think there'd be possible physical advantages to splitting the challenges themselves into Novice/Advanced categories from the get go, but I think there's such a huge benefit here at NF in having someone WAY more advanced than you cheering you on. Skimming Squad threads, it seems like Spezzy did a pretty fantastic job of mixing up levels within the squads. But, here's my question: would those of us that push harder than we should be more likely NOT to push hard if we were up against only people in our range? I kinda tend to think people that push the limits will push the limits regardless, but that group of us and newbies doing exercises for the first time will hopefully learn where to draw the line to avoid injury.

I'm still soooo new, just trying to get my physical health back to where I know which direction my limbs are even moving, heh, so my perspective is probably different from someone who could compete more directly with other NFers. That said, I secretly love that the people that comment the most on my workout logs are lightyears ahead of me, because 1. they've already given me so much useful information that's truly helped me lift better; and 2. it feels freaking awesome and is ridiculously motivating to have "real" lifters take notice of my baby steps.

I guess my point is that the very nature of competition here at NF is different than at a physical lifting meet, because we are a team as a whole. I personally wouldn't want the camaraderie of competing with everyone to be lost, but I think your idea of offering guidelines for novices/beginners is an excellent one.

[morethanjustamom]

I looked at the challenges as a way to incorporate different exercises into my routine that I wasn't already doing, but I knew to be sensible and not go for a level I couldn't sustain. As a result, I've now added planks to my lower body/core days, and jumping rope on days I want a little cardio.

[katscratch]

DL on the level of Knightwatch, andygates, and chairokey

I do see the competitions as a positive, but that is because I realistically know what level I'm at vs others. If you fail to see it, get discouraged, or have pride issues, that's when it becomes a problem, but those things will happen.

That second bit: I think that's key, for anyone in ANY type of competitive event.

The first bit: As far as challenges go, I have to admit, I'd love to see total numbers of the "bigass" lifters vs everyone else

[wildross]

One of the things we all need to learn is not only when to push, but also what our limits are. And that (along with all other types of wisdom) only comes from mistakes. It'd be great if we never tried too hard and hurt our selves, but then we wouldn't learn what "too much" is. As iced says, we all can find appropriate competition to challenge us; someone in a similar situation, age, size, condition. Maybe if the community grows enough, and still hangs together, we will divide further. I dont' think we're there yet. If Spezzy or Steve see this, maybe they can give more color, but my impression is that the 'active' posters are still in the hundreds, not thousands of people (at least I'm still surprised when I see a new name/avatar. I "feel" like I recognize many of them). That is really not enough to start slicing into lots of groups yet.

[nickls]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses everyone.

The challenges are one of the most fun parts of the forum, so just trying to think if there's any way to make them better or safer.

Knowing your own limits and emphasizing form and slow improvement over numbers are things to keep in mind. Especially for people who are trying a powerlifting style challenge for the first time like in the virtual meet.

I agree that it is still a fairly small community of dedicated posters who can all cheer each other on no matter what level they are at, and the real motivation is hitting personal goals rather than being at the top.

If there are going to be more contests with prizes though, I would love to see a way for more people closer to the beginning of their fitness path having a chance at competing and winning. Not that a t-shirt is a huge prize or anything, but even in terms of motivation it's nice to know you can at least compete for something, even if it's just the title of top first-timer.

[Elastigirl]

I like the set up we have now with teams. I don't know how Spezzy divided the teams. I was hoping she sort of looked at who had been doing this longer and who was newbies and tried to make it semi even. True, sometimes competitons cause us to lose common sense and we push too hard. On the other hand sometimes competition pushes us to be better. I did planks every day for a week, something I've never done before.

[bigm141414]

The first bit: As far as challenges go, I have to admit, I'd love to see total numbers of the "bigass" lifters vs everyone else

Just wait for the NF virtual powerlifting meet to be over and done with. The big boys will post insane amount of weight moved.

[Guest Tigger]

Just wait for the NF virtual powerlifting meet to be over and done with. The big boys will post insane amount of weight moved.

I really like the coefficient thing (I'm a geek, but not a math geek) that's on the spread sheet for the meet. For me it really puts things in perspective and levels everyone out. When I put my numbers on the sheet, I was surprised at how close my initial stats were to Spezzy's. I know she'll kick my butt, but it was nice to see that I could get there someday if I put my mind to it

[The Tin Man]

I liked the challenges, I forgot about jumprope and its benefits. I stopped when I was going a little overboard with it and was fine. The challenges chosen were good because everyone can do them to varying degrees. I don't think there are a lot more different ones they can do, but I may be proven wrong.

[Corbab]

I really like having some big guys (and gals) to chase. I arrived with a bit of experience, so I wasn't starting from square one, but I know I have a long way to go to put up anything respectable. I'm not going to be an idiot and split my chest open trying to bench my own weight, but seeing that things are physically possible makes me want to go for them.