Discovery of the Size Acceptance Community

[ETFnerd]

Reading through the now defunct Debra's Just Maintaining Blog I came across the Size Acceptance Community. Many in this community hang out on a blog site called Tbe Big Fat Blog. You can check out what they're about here.

Reading this thoughtful blog really opened my eyes to ideas and viepoints that I hadn't thought through before. I even came to question whether my actions that had a weight loss/maintenance focus were appropriate.

This community provides some statistical facts but like anything else you must read these carefully. I think the center of gravity in my thinking has shifted by reading these ideas and content, and if anyone else is familiar with these positions I would love to hear what you've been able to take away from it.

[Good Row G]

Very interesting stuff. Personally don't think I'm doing myself any favors with the extra fat i carry around, but those statistics do jibe with my sense that heavy and strong is better than sedentary.

FWIW - I can say from various personal measures that have good reason to believe that at 5'9", with a lot of muscle, my body wants to be at 175 lbs. That's higher than BMI and various measures would recommend (and unfortunately lower than I am currently.) Although I'd like to be 160 and have been throughout parts of my life, I have a hard time justifying going under my happy, healthy and maintainable 175. After that it's culture and vanity for me.

Thanks for the food for thought. Now out to get some lunch.

[aj_rock]

It's not new news, at least not to me. Fact of the matter is, as a PT, I've learned that all those diseases commonly accepted as relating to being fat are actually each individually caused by some unique combination of factors, and generally, being sedentary and obese along with other factors will result in this broad spectrum. For example, CAD is not caused by obesity, it's caused by elevated cholesterol, which can be controlled in most individuals by reducing body fat. Heart disease isn't caused by obesity, it's caused by an imbalance between heart strength and chronic load, of which being obese could be A factor.

Wellness factors aside, it's pretty clear to me that maintaining a 'healthy and active lifestyle' imparts many benefits beyond simply disease prevention.

Alas, far be me from telling others how to live their lives. I for one would never judge somebody who was happy with their weight, regardless of where that is.

[Raikas]

I would love to hear what you've been able to take away from it.

I've really enjoyed reading fat acceptance blogs (wasn't it called "the fatosphere" a one point?), but more for the socio-political side than the health side. I like the way they've taken ideas about public vs. private discourse and the body-as-political statement out of discussions of race and disability and made that a little more mainstream. Plus a "don't judge people based on their looks" is always a good message.

I tend to find some of the "no negative health effects to fatness" (as opposed to "no universally negative effects") a little suspect, but maybe that's just my thin person bias talking. Can't deny the whole "correlation is not causation" line though!

[Librarian of Doom]

Honestly, if it hadn't been for the fat acceptance movement/community/whatever, I don't think I would have ever gotten to the point where I was able to take better care of myself like I am now. I spent so much time hating my body, and then I punished myself for being a fat, lazy, insert pejorative adjective here, person by eating more junk. It was a horrible, self-perpetuating cycle. It took learning to love myself and accept myself to be able to take steps to improve my health, as paradoxical as it sounds. I had to believe that I could love myself and be loved by others at my "worst" before I could love myself enough to make a change. "Overcoming Overeating" and "When Women Stop Hating Their Bodies" were the start of my journey, and I'm still so grateful that a friend in grad school introduced me to them.

[161803398874989]

Some of them may have good points, but I feel the majority of them are just people making excuses.

There's a reason obesity isn't sexy. Being obese correlates well with a lot of nasty diseases and an early death. That alone is reason enough to lose excessive fat. You can only gain quality of life if you do it correctly. People who disagree are either uninformed or unmotivated. NF helps with both.

There is not a single reason to be obese. If you are, it's because you let yourself go. If you're not willing to change that, you're not worth my time.

[Librarian of Doom]

Some of them may have good points, but I feel the majority of them are just people making excuses.

There's a reason obesity isn't sexy. Being obese correlates well with a lot of nasty diseases and an early death. That alone is reason enough to lose excessive fat. You can only gain quality of life if you do it correctly. People who disagree are either uninformed or unmotivated. NF helps with both.

There is not a single reason to be obese. If you are, it's because you let yourself go. If you're not willing to change that, you're not worth my time.

I find this statement to be hurtful and inaccurate. I am obese primarily because of hypothyroidism and reactions to medication; not because I "let myself go". I am taking steps to remedy this now, but for a long time I felt like it wasn't even worth trying because people would always assume that I was obese because of laziness and poor lifestyle choices on my part.

[ETFnerd]

There is not a single reason to be obese. If you are, it's because you let yourself go. If you're not willing to change that, you're not worth my time.

it's a little presumptuous to know you are absolutely right when you haven't walked a mile in others' shoes... as i get older, there are fewer absolutes... we all look out into the world with our own myopic, limited view...

otoh, your point of view isn't unusual but prevalent... sigh...

[Waldo]

Without having read any of these links directly....

There is a lot of good to it, however the many hide behind the few. Yes you can be overweight and in great shape. Heck look at every NFL lineman. But way too many people are identify with the few that actually are overweight and in great shape, and try to hide among them, lying to themselves even.

And yes, being skinny and out of shape is no better. These people are a mysterious bunch, so many emulate them (all those people that try to lose weight with mostly diet), yet at the same time so few realize that it really isn't much improvement, being skinny and out of shape doesn't do a whole lot for your ego, and does little for your health.

People I think can natually tell how fit someone is (it is an evolutionary advantage to be able to do so), but as a group we as a society are too dumb to realize that weight/BF% is not a great fitness indicator, even though many/most people can differentate, whether instinctively or rationally. The group just hasn't come around yet and may never, as the group is inherantly stupid.

[MMyers]

There is not a single reason to be obese. If you are, it's because you let yourself go. If you're not willing to change that, you're not worth my time.

Only the Sith deal in absolutes.

[ETFnerd]

taking willpower arguments to their logical conclusion... is everyone who doesn't stand on the gold medal podium platform at the olympics lazy and unmotivated?

you can take a utilitarian approach and say that your fitness should reside where your marginal health benefit or utility intersects with your marginal cost of achieving that incremental level of fitness. it would seem to me that where that point is would be personal and highly specific from person to person...

[161803398874989]

I find this statement to be hurtful and inaccurate. I am obese primarily because of hypothyroidism and reactions to medication; not because I "let myself go". I am taking steps to remedy this now, but for a long time I felt like it wasn't even worth trying because people would always assume that I was obese because of laziness and poor lifestyle choices on my part.

Of course, those statements are barring hypothyrodism and medication. In that case, there is a reason. But those cases are rare.

Note I said "obese", ie. at a really unhealthy weight. Some extra flab doesn't hurt if you're fit.

[ETFnerd]

Of course, those statements are barring hypothyrodism and medication. In that case, there is a reason. But those cases are rare.

Note I said "obese", ie. at a really unhealthy weight. Some extra flab doesn't hurt if you're fit.

what about people who were physically or otherwise abused... who deal with their daily torment inflicted by others by over-eating? these people aren't particularly rare... food is cheaper than therapy... so more people can afford the former...

[msuroo]

taking willpower arguments to their logical conclusion... is everyone who doesn't stand on the gold medal podium platform at the olympics lazy and unmotivated?

I get what you are trying to say (and agree with the premise), but this is a poor comparison. By definition, there is only one gold medalist. In theory, everyone could maintain perfect willpower (however you define that) 100% of the time.

Obviously, this isn't the case for anybody - which is what I think you were trying to say.

[ETFnerd]

i think people who received the same top scores/times/distance can share a gold medal... so everyone could have had the same winning time and everyone could theoretically win... ;-)

[msuroo]

There is a lot of good to it, however the many hide behind the few. Yes you can be overweight and in great shape. Heck look at every NFL lineman. But way too many people are identify with the few that actually are overweight and in great shape, and try to hide among them, lying to themselves even.

Agree with this too - the statistics link in the OP was a great example. It immediately tried to throw BMI out the window because "the average member of the NBA would be obese". Well, that's not really fair to BMI - it was only ever designed to analyze total populations - it was never designed to analyze a single individual. It especially wasn't designed to analyze a subset of the population with markedly different physical makeup than the whole.

[msuroo]

i think people who received the same top scores/times/distance can share a gold medal... so everyone could have had the same winning time and everyone could theoretically win... ;-)

Meh, still doesn't work for me. I could have 110% dedication and not beat Michael Phelps in a swimming race. That would never be a question of willpower.

[ETFnerd]

exactly what i was trying to say...

[msuroo]

Sorry, I'm with you - it's just that what I got out of this:

you can take a utilitarian approach and say that your fitness should reside where your marginal health benefit or utility intersects with your marginal cost of achieving that incremental level of fitness. it would seem to me that where that point is would be personal and highly specific from person to person...

was that none of us have perfect willpower. We all fall into an equilibrium where the opportunity cost of "more fitness" is just too high. For some of us, that point is higher than others, and who are we to judge where that falls for someone else.

That doesn't really jive with the Olympics comparison for me because even if all of those barriers were removed, someone would still be the gold medalist.

Edit to add: I guess the part that I really disagree with is that the gold medal comparison is the "logical conclusion of the willpower argument" - I don't see them as related as all.

[ETFnerd]

yeah the first was a response to the willingness to change thought noted in the post by 1618...

the second part was one approach that made sense to me based on what little i know about decision theory in economics...

so they were separate thoughts... gotta get more organized and write more clearly like you...

[LRB]

Some of them may have good points, but I feel the majority of them are just people making excuses.

....

There is not a single reason to be obese. If you are, it's because you let yourself go. If you're not willing to change that, you're not worth my time.

Ugh. That sounds roughly equivalent to telling someone who is anorexic that they're that way because they don't eat enough -- for most people, if they could change it, they would.

"Be kind; everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." -unknown (http://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/06/29/be-kind/) I don't always know what battle that is, but I do my utmost not to judge.

[LizOh]

I follow a few (self-described) fat-bloggers, as well as a few recovering anorexics (medicinalmarzipan.com is amazing!). Being in neither extreme, I find a lot of value in the message that it isn't about weight - it isn't even really about appearance - it's about health and about feeling good and about taking care of myself.

I've never gotten the message from any of those types of bloggers that it's okay not to exercise or eat right. Most of the ones I read seem to be saying that you should tune in and listen to what your body is saying it needs. I hear a lot of the messages Steve puts forward, albeit with less practical knowledge. Like, only count calories if it works for you; when you work out, do something you actually enjoy; and that mainstream beliefs are often wrong (like you don't have run to lose weight).

[Raikas]

Of course, those statements are barring hypothyrodism and medication. In that case, there is a reason.

And yet you were comfortable starting with "There is not a single reason to be obese. If you are, it's because you let yourself go. If you're not willing to change that, you're not worth my time". And even beyond that, even if their reason is 100% willpower, you have no idea if that 300lb person used to be a 450lb person. And even if they weren't, they may be kind people, clever people, creative people, but because they look a certain way they're not worth your time?

That kind of judgemental attitude is exactly what that fat acceptance movement is a reaction to - people being told that they're not worthy just because of their body type.

[Lachy]

There is a distinction between being overweight and being unhealthy. Plenty of people are at a normal weight, or underweight and are unhealthy, but there are also many overweight unhealthy people. And it seems that the overweight unhealthy population is growing faster than other unhealthy groups (this is could well be incorrect and I welcome any statistics/information people have).

People stereotype. And the stereotype is that fat people are unhealthy. And a lot of the time this is true. A lot of the fat people I see are eating badly, and are fat because they eat badly, combined with a lack of exercise. Should they be vilified? No. Should it be accepted? I don't think so. Eating well, being healthy and exercising should be encouraged!

But this encouragement shouldn't be focused only on overweight people, it should be a general message to everyone! Being healthy doesn't mean crash dieting, doesn't mean turning to paleo, or joining your local Cross Fit. It means eating less McDonnalds, it means going for a walk in the park, it means eating a good variety of natural foods, in suitable portions. And it should be encouraged!

[Moxie Hart]

I see no reason why people shouldn't be able to love themselves and be loved in return no matter their size or health. Everyone is worthy of that.

Yes, I didn't start making positive changes until I decided I was worth it and that I wasn't a horrible shameful person for having to do it.

Also, I'm still probably 45 lbs overweight, making me obese by most standards. Yet I worked out 5-6 days a week, can run a 5K, and have phenomenally healthy blood work. I used to be 70 lbs more. But you wouldn't necessarily know that and would probably judge me based upon my current looks... just not an accurate gauge of my health. The only thing my weight may have caused me is a bad gallbladder, but even that is iffy. It could be birth control or diets that did it.