"What’s wrong with females having muscular bodies?"

[rtalencar]

I like the direction this goes in. But I'd take it to the extent that for most men, we want a woman smaller than us, we want her arms less muscular, her legs less muscular, etc. So for less in shape guys, like a huge portion of america that is specifically advertised to with such photoshopped photos, seeing a powerful woman is more likely to be intimidating. Thats part of the reason so many guys here find athletic and muscular women attractive. Because we are in shape enough (or getting there) to be confident enough to not be intimidated by it. And I've heard from many women it goes the other way too, they want their man to be bigger (preferably with muscles) than them. I constantly hear from tall women that they have to find men that are taller than them and have never heard of a short woman asking for a guy shorter than her. What I'm getting at here is this; there are certain expectations of each sex that define attractiveness, and when such a large population is in a position that distorts attractiveness away from being healthy (unfit guys desiring weak women in order to feel strong) we will see marketing strategies steer towards that direction as well. I don't think the media makes it attractive, I think they just feed into what their market finds as attractive.

Also, on the issue of being toned; I am a personal trainer at la fitness (I know i know, globo gym. Its a job doing what I like ok?) and I hear the term "toned" A LOT from clients, usually women. What tends to be the case is that the women are not sure how to describe what they want because muscular makes them think body builder, and the only other option is twig. They mean it as inbetween those two options. They want visible muscles, but not muscles that pop out like crazy. Others tend to use it as a means to say "I want to look good without having to work hard" (don't worry, I tell all my clients right off the bat that isn't going to happen). Just thought I'd share some perspective from the front lines.

This is a very good point. To provide a counter point though, I think the responsibility sometimes lies with the partner (obviously this can't be helped with respect to height). I'm getting married soon to a third degree black belt. She's an instructor at the dojo I train at. Due to my deep seated sexism...ahem* "chivalry"...I made darn sure that I was better at fighting than her. Call me old fashioned but if we get mugged I want to be the person fighting off the assailant and not her. Did that mean I had to work a bit harder and clean up my striking (I was already better at grappling and judo from previous styles)? Yeah, but I'm better for it. If she was stronger than me, I'd work to get stronger (there is one exception, she has freakishly strong thumbs and beats me on the regular at thumb war, I've given up on that though I did try). To use the specific example mentioned by GRG, if you don't want to have bigger arms than your partner...your partner should do some damn curls. And to use your example, those unfit guys should, frankly, get off their butts and get to the gym.

[PrincessHeather]

I like the direction this goes in. But I'd take it to the extent that for most men, we want a woman smaller than us, we want her arms less muscular, her legs less muscular, etc. So for less in shape guys, like a huge portion of america that is specifically advertised to with such photoshopped photos, seeing a powerful woman is more likely to be intimidating. Thats part of the reason so many guys here find athletic and muscular women attractive. Because we are in shape enough (or getting there) to be confident enough to not be intimidated by it. And I've heard from many women it goes the other way too, they want their man to be bigger (preferably with muscles) than them. I constantly hear from tall women that they have to find men that are taller than them and have never heard of a short woman asking for a guy shorter than her. What I'm getting at here is this; there are certain expectations of each sex that define attractiveness, and when such a large population is in a position that distorts attractiveness away from being healthy (unfit guys desiring weak women in order to feel strong) we will see marketing strategies steer towards that direction as well. I don't think the media makes it attractive, I think they just feed into what their market finds as attractive.

Also, on the issue of being toned; I am a personal trainer at la fitness (I know i know, globo gym. Its a job doing what I like ok?) and I hear the term "toned" A LOT from clients, usually women. What tends to be the case is that the women are not sure how to describe what they want because muscular makes them think body builder, and the only other option is twig. They mean it as inbetween those two options. They want visible muscles, but not muscles that pop out like crazy. Others tend to use it as a means to say "I want to look good without having to work hard" (don't worry, I tell all my clients right off the bat that isn't going to happen). Just thought I'd share some perspective from the front lines.

I think you're defining more clearly what the other poster was saying about lines blurring between men's and women's bodies... It's a lot easier for that to happen when you're talking about a flabby guy and a fit gal. I'm pretty small, an entire foot shorter than my husband, so in my case the fact that I'm far fitter/stronger proportionately won't ever make me bigger than him, but even so I've asked him if he'd like to lift with me and he's intimidated. I think you're certainly right that for the large portion of the population who is not bothering with fitness, the baselines continue to get more and more skewed.

As for the term toned, in my opinion the word give the connotation of an aesthetic only. Before I decided to be strong, I wanted to be "toned" for vanity's sake only. I wasn't particularly interested in health or actual physical fitness, only in being happy with how I looked. That may not be how everyone views that word, but for a lot of people I interact with, this is where our goals diverge. Today, my workouts are in the interest of longevity and functionality, not just in achieving a look that I can't get based on my genetics anyway.

[thescrawnycaveman]

This is a very good point. To provide a counter point though, I think the responsibility sometimes lies with the partner (obviously this can't be helped with respect to height). I'm getting married soon to a third degree black belt. She's an instructor at the dojo I train at. Due to my deep seated sexism...ahem* "chivalry"...I made darn sure that I was better at fighting than her. Call me old fashioned but if we get mugged I want to be the person fighting off the assailant and not her. Did that mean I had to work a bit harder and clean up my striking (I was already better at grappling and judo from previous styles)? Yeah, but I'm better for it. If she was stronger than me, I'd work to get stronger (there is one exception, she has freakishly strong thumbs and beats me on the regular at thumb war, I've given up on that though I did try). To use the specific example mentioned by GRG, if you don't want to have bigger arms than your partner...your partner should do some damn curls. And to use your example, those unfit guys should, frankly, get off their butts and get to the gym.

This is a big part of what I wanted to get at. It certainly isn't the womens' fault nor responsibility. It is the unfit men's own inabilities that makes the womens' abilities intimidating. Whats sad is that because of that, women models are created unrealistically (photo shopped) or unhealthily by the media, which will make many women strive for that unrealistic or unhealthy goal. Just because such a large portion of men are unfit and insecure.

As for men's "ideal" image in the media, I think, though not as bad as it is for women, it is still bad. Not so much because the image itself is unhealthy (though I think there are some decent arguments out there against 5% bf), but because it can be VERY unattainable. For instance, I am 5'10 155lbs with 12% body fat. I eat around 3k calories a day and don't gain a pound. If I wanted to look like Bradley Cooper who has got to be at least 220 maybe 250, not only would it take years of work, but it would also take loooaaaadddssss of money. Eating what I eat now costs quite a decent dime, but if I ate 500 more calories a day of mostly protein (each lb of muscle is about 3,500 cals), it would take me 65-95 weeks to get to his weight, not to mention the extra weight I'd have to gain before cutting back and eating far less to have that low of a bf %. All of that takes tons of work and money (meat isn't cheap) and isn't even close to a guaranteed result. For a lot of us, including myself, its just not going to happen, yet the same thing happens that happens with women. With so many of these body types glorified in the media the standards begin to get raised for men.

Not to mention the self esteem issues these types of glorification cause both men and women. That moment when we realize that we can not look like that thoughts like "I'm not good enough" or "I'll never be that fit/skinny" begin to pop up in our heads. Not to say we should feed into the unhealthy lifestyles we already live, but we should take things down a peg or two to a more realistic level. For both men and women.

[Lachy]

As for men's "ideal" image in the media, I think, though not as bad as it is for women, it is still bad. Not so much because the image itself is unhealthy (though I think there are some decent arguments out there against 5% bf), but because it can be VERY unattainable. For instance, I am 5'10 155lbs with 12% body fat. I eat around 3k calories a day and don't gain a pound. If I wanted to look like Bradley Cooper who has got to be at least 220 maybe 250, not only would it take years of work, but it would also take loooaaaadddssss of money. Eating what I eat now costs quite a decent dime, but if I ate 500 more calories a day of mostly protein (each lb of muscle is about 3,500 cals), it would take me 65-95 weeks to get to his weight, not to mention the extra weight I'd have to gain before cutting back and eating far less to have that low of a bf %. All of that takes tons of work and money (meat isn't cheap) and isn't even close to a guaranteed result. For a lot of us, including myself, its just not going to happen, yet the same thing happens that happens with women. With so many of these body types glorified in the media the standards begin to get raised for men.

No way does he weigh this.

Regardless of gender, don't aim to look like someone else. You can't, you aren't them. If image is important, then all you can strive for is to be the best possible you.

[chairohkey]

If I wanted to look like Bradley Cooper who has got to be at least 220 maybe 250

No way does he weigh this.

A quick google search shows he's 6'1" and 185-190lbs. Even at his most jacked I'd be surprised if he got 200lb+. Here's a little perspective at 6'2" Arnold was only about 235lbs at his heaviest comp weight.

[Waldo]

A quick google search shows he's 6'1" and 185-190lbs. Even at his most jacked I'd be surprised if he got 200lb+.

Either he has tiny legs or I totally underestimate how big I am....

He's bigger than me, and I'm 6'1" 190 lb.

[ETFnerd]

you look just like him too...

[thescrawnycaveman]

I apologize for that. Jesus was I off! I need to work on my estimation skills....

[andygates]

http://www.npr.org/2012/04/13/150566153/airbender-creators-reclaim-their-world-in-korra

As for Korra herself, the show's creators imagined their headstrong heroine as the kind of girl you might meet on a snowboard.

"She's muscular, and we like that," Konietzko says. "It's definitely better than being a waif about to pass out. I know, I look like a waif — who am I to judge?"

Some Nickelodeon executives were worried, says Konietzko, about backing an animated action show with a female lead character. Conventional TV wisdom has it that girls will watch shows about boys, but boys won't watch shows about girls.

During test screenings, though, boys said they didn't care that Korra was a girl. They just said she was awesome.

[ETFnerd]

nice new avatar andy...

[The Tin Man]

During test screenings, though, boys said they didn't care that Korra was a girl. They just said she was awesome.

I love this. Sometimes people don't realize how heavily the prejudices that kids have are influenced by adults and what they absorb from day-to-day observations.