Compound 5x5 Change up

[blindasutsutsu]

Hi there so a little background on me. 6'1 207 ~15% BF

I recently (the beginning of the previous six week challenge) switched from isolation workouts 4 days a week to compound 5x5 workouts 3 days a week. This cut my daily gym trip from a 2 hour marathon to a 45 minute sprint of awesome, however at this point I wonder if I am doing the right things at the right times for my compound workouts.

Currently my MWF routine is Bench (varies from normal to dumbbell to decline), Military press both dumbbell and bar bell, Back Squats, Dead lifts, and a rotating 5th exercise, (i.e. dips, pull-ups, rows, basically some compound excercise)

The main 4 I do each trip into the gym and I only rotate that 5th excercise (though i will be honest sometimes a 6th exercise gets thrown in) I always hear things about muscle confusion that sort of thing (and for a while was a big fan of muscle isolation) now am wondering if perhaps i should stick to the 3 day a week plan but instead of doing the big four as i will now call them forever for each trip switch up to doing and upper body day, and then a lower body day. I.e. Monday do bench and military press and deadlift and two other compound upper body work outs. And then on wednesday do squat, deadlift, lunges, and two others. Then Friday going back to upper. (The following week lower would be done twice upper once).

I know there is a wealth of knowledge specifically on these types of lifts and was wondering what peoples thoughts were.

Thanks for the help in advance!!

[bigm141414]

Workout A

Squat 5x5

OHP 5x5

Deadlift 5x5

Workout B

Squat 5x5

Bench 5x5

Rows/Power Cleans 5x5

StrongLifts 5x5. Pretty good and simple novice routince for fully body. Alternate ABABA every other day Try not to do the Big Four (squat, bench, press, DL) every time because that'll lead to not being able to recover. Specially with Deadlifts.

[chairohkey]

If you're going to do 5x5 do it as Reg Park initially intended,the first two sets are warm-ups, and the last three are the primary work sets. For example, if you're using 200 pounds for the primary sets on the bench press, it would look like this: 160 x 5, 180 x 5, 200 x 3 x 5. When you can use 200 pounds for the last three sets of five, increase the poundage by five pounds on all five sets to take it to 165 x 5, 185 x 5, 205 x 3x5

[Razor]

Deadlifts are probably the most taxing exercise you've been doing. If you're doing them properly, you should not be able to do them 3 times a week and make good progress. If you are, holy crap, good job. Your body is defying most weightlifting advice.

Since you're not a beginner and have been working out a while, any SS based program might not give you a lot of results. Try it, and if you start to plateu first make sure you're eating and resting well. If not, then definitely do an upper/lower or push/pull split.

[This is Seth]

Its pretty hard to tell if he'll plateau with any sort of linear progression plan until we know his numbers. SS has carried me, and either Warriors, well over 300 lbs for working weights on squat/dead lifts.

[blindasutsutsu]

Sorry i knew i forgot to post something!! Numbers may help eh? Here are my 5x5 numbers from my most recent work out. (Last night actually)

Bench currently 175lbs

Dead Lift Currently 225lbs

Squat Currently 245lbs

Overhead Press 110lbs

Where I started 8 weeks ago:

Bench: 145lbs

Deadlift: 155lbs

Squat 165lbs

Overhead Press 80lbs

As far as recovery time. I used to use the mantra of 3days rest minimum but since going to compound I have gone to the one solid day of rest in between. My deadlift is currently inhibited more by grip strength than anything else. I would like to avoid using straps if possible mainly because they aren't my favorite and why not just increase my grip strength??

That being said after about 8 weeks i do feel like my body is starting to tell me hey you gotta rest me up more!! So there in lies the initial question of should I be alternating upper to lower on an AB like schedule.

Thanks for all the help so far!

[msuroo]

If your grip is failing you, use a mixed on your working sets. I mean, definitely work on your grip (use double overhand for warmup sets, do farmers walks, etc) - but don't rob the rest of your body of that progression because your grip is lagging.

[blindasutsutsu]

If your grip is failing you, use a mixed on your working sets. I mean, definitely work on your grip (use double overhand for warmup sets, do farmers walks, etc) - but don't rob the rest of your body of that progression because your grip is lagging.

I just started going to a mixed grip for working sets. (I was double overhanding until about 205 lbs) but thanks for the advice, My progression up has sped up since i switched to that grip but i still feel like it inhibits it a bit maybe i should use straps for working sets and an overhand grip for warmups??

[This is Seth]

No. No straps. No gloves. Just do more grip work.

Static holds kick my ass and are definitely paying off. When you're warming up with like 60-80% of your working weight, just kind of chill at the top for a while. See if you can't hold that bar in over hand for 5-10 seconds each rep.

[blindasutsutsu]

No. No straps. No gloves. Just do more grip work.

Static holds kick my ass and are definitely paying off. When you're warming up with like 60-80% of your working weight, just kind of chill at the top for a while. See if you can't hold that bar in over hand for 5-10 seconds each rep.

That has always been my mantra the no staps thing. I will start doing static holds though on my warm up weight though. I think if I start doing that my grip strength will increase quickly. Thanks!

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Its pretty hard to tell if he'll plateau with any sort of linear progression plan until we know his numbers. SS has carried me, and either Warriors, well over 300 lbs for working weights on squat/dead lifts.

Yep 335/385 and still going. Though I only do deadlifts 1x5, and do them every workout.

No. No straps. No gloves. Just do more grip work.

Static holds kick my ass and are definitely paying off. When you're warming up with like 60-80% of your working weight, just kind of chill at the top for a while. See if you can't hold that bar in over hand for 5-10 seconds each rep.

This is a point of preference. Once you get to pretty high dead lift numbers, straps may be needed as there's a limit to grip strength. I personally am going strapless until I hit 500 lb 1RM on the dead lifts then may start using them above that. If you do use straps, don't use them as a crutch, don't use them unless you're working on weights where you absolutely can't hold it without them. I personally don't like the holds during my warm ups because by the time I get to my working weights my grip is pretty fatigued, and since I don't use straps, I need all the grip strength I can get.

[blindasutsutsu]

Yep 335/385 and still going. Though I only do deadlifts 1x5, and do them every workout.

This is a point of preference. Once you get to pretty high dead lift numbers, straps may be needed as there's a limit to grip strength. I personally am going strapless until I hit 500 lb 1RM on the dead lifts then may start using them above that. If you do use straps, don't use them as a crutch, don't use them unless you're working on weights where you absolutely can't hold it without them. I personally don't like the holds during my warm ups because by the time I get to my working weights my grip is pretty fatigued, and since I don't use straps, I need all the grip strength I can get.

I bought straps as a just in case kind of thing. Right now since my weight is relatively low I am going to hold off on doing any sort of strap and just build my grip strength up. (May rethink that when i get to the 350 type of weight) At the beginning the 185 weight was real rough for me and now it isn't at all so i figure I will get to the point where my current weight is like that as well. I appreciate all the input though, I think starting next week I am going to go to a A/B push pull workout as follows.

Push A:

Bench Press (of one sort or another)

Standing Overhead Press

Squats

Dips

Pull B:

Dead Lifts

Pull Ups/Lat Pull Downs

Preacher Curls

Rows

What do you guys think? I am open to switch it up or changing to different exercises.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I bought straps as a just in case kind of thing. Right now since my weight is relatively low I am going to hold off on doing any sort of strap and just build my grip strength up. (May rethink that when i get to the 350 type of weight) At the beginning the 185 weight was real rough for me and now it isn't at all so i figure I will get to the point where my current weight is like that as well. I appreciate all the input though, I think starting next week I am going to go to a A/B push pull workout as follows.

Push A:

Bench Press (of one sort or another)

Standing Overhead Press

Squats

Dips

Pull B:

Dead Lifts

Pull Ups/Lat Pull Downs

Preacher Curls

Rows

What do you guys think? I am open to switch it up or changing to different exercises.

That'll give you some good results I'm guessing. The only thing I would change is to switch the lat pulls with the overhead press. After benching, your tricepts are going to be very tired and your press will suffer, I know I can't do them on the same day and when I try I can only complete sets ata a good 15 lb lighter than usual. The dead lifts also seriously work your lats and all parts of you back and would have the same fatigue effect on your lat pulls. If you do lat pulls and dead lifts on the same day, do the lat pulls first.

[rtalencar]

I bought straps as a just in case kind of thing. Right now since my weight is relatively low I am going to hold off on doing any sort of strap and just build my grip strength up. (May rethink that when i get to the 350 type of weight) At the beginning the 185 weight was real rough for me and now it isn't at all so i figure I will get to the point where my current weight is like that as well. I appreciate all the input though, I think starting next week I am going to go to a A/B push pull workout as follows.

Push A:

Bench Press (of one sort or another)

Standing Overhead Press

Squats

Dips

Pull B:

Dead Lifts

Pull Ups/Lat Pull Downs

Preacher Curls

Rows

What do you guys think? I am open to switch it up or changing to different exercises.

You said you rotate bench. Going between barbell and dumbbell (particularly right now while the weight is still relatively light) can be a very good thing to prevent imbalances. However instead of declined bench I'd suggest incline. You can also try out close grip bench as well.

Do squats first. If you're doing three days a week there's also something to be said for squatting every session.

I'm actually going to disagree with Corey here, I think you should swap pulldowns with bench. I also think you should do tricep work along with curls

A: Squats, Overhead Press, Pulldowns, Dips

B: Deadlift, Bench, Rows, Pushdowns, Curls

[blindasutsutsu]

You said you rotate bench. Going between barbell and dumbbell (particularly right now while the weight is still relatively light) can be a very good thing to prevent imbalances. However instead of declined bench I'd suggest incline. You can also try out close grip bench as well.

Do squats first. If you're doing three days a week there's also something to be said for squatting every session.

I'm actually going to disagree with Corey here, I think you should swap pulldowns with bench. I also think you should do tricep work along with curls

A: Squats, Overhead Press, Pulldowns, Dips

B: Deadlift, Bench, Rows, Pushdowns, Curls

I did debate a couple of things that you are recommending here actually. I agree i should get some tricep work in with my curls I have a whole number of things i can do for this but I think pushdowns is a good one to start with. And i agree that squats each day is a good idea as it promotes overall strength so I think I will try to do that as well. As for my rotation of benches i currently do inclines, declines, dumbbell and barbell and I think if I move to this schedule I will just stick with just dumbbell and barbell and maybe not worry about incline decline for now. So maybe this is it then:

A:

Squats

Overhead Press

Pulldowns/Pull Ups

Dips

B:

Squat

Bench

Rows

Deadlift

Push Downs ( I will probably do these with a rope)

Curls

The B day seems kind of rough/long due to doing squats both days. I could rotate rows back to work out A. I will be doing 3 days a week but would like to alternate which day is done twice a week. i.e. Week 1 would go ABA. Week to would be BAB.

What do you think of moving rows to work out A?

[rtalencar]

I did debate a couple of things that you are recommending here actually. I agree i should get some tricep work in with my curls I have a whole number of things i can do for this but I think pushdowns is a good one to start with. And i agree that squats each day is a good idea as it promotes overall strength so I think I will try to do that as well. As for my rotation of benches i currently do inclines, declines, dumbbell and barbell and I think if I move to this schedule I will just stick with just dumbbell and barbell and maybe not worry about incline decline for now. So maybe this is it then:

A:

Squats

Overhead Press

Pulldowns/Pull Ups

Dips

B:

Squat

Bench

Rows

Deadlift

Push Downs ( I will probably do these with a rope)

Curls

The B day seems kind of rough/long due to doing squats both days. I could rotate rows back to work out A. I will be doing 3 days a week but would like to alternate which day is done twice a week. i.e. Week 1 would go ABA. Week to would be BAB.

What do you think of moving rows to work out A?

Rows before deadlifts is, in my opinion, a bad idea. Moving it to your A workout is far better.

[blindasutsutsu]

Rows before deadlifts is, in my opinion, a bad idea. Moving it to your A workout is far better.

That's what I was thinking too. Though i don't know that the order I posted will be the exact order things get done in, but I will be moving rows to my A day. Starting this new routine this week. Thanks everyone for the advice and help! It is much appreciated!

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Try it both ways and see what works for you. I do squats after the others because that's what works for me even though it's not what people typically do.

[mgage]

Have you thought about doing cleans? It's one of the recommended compound lifts in Starting Strength. I've been avoiding it due to what seems like a lot of technical complexity, but one of these days I plan on working up the courage to replace my rows with cleans.

[blindasutsutsu]

Have you thought about doing cleans? It's one of the recommended compound lifts in Starting Strength. I've been avoiding it due to what seems like a lot of technical complexity, but one of these days I plan on working up the courage to replace my rows with cleans.

I have considered cleans but want to get proper instruction on them first they are the only one of the base strength exercises i have never done and its mainly out of fear of having garbage technique. I am looking for someone near me to give me the proper technique and work through it with me before i start doing them. (I do have a friend that says he knows how to do them...but i have my reservations haha)