LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Deidara]

That seems rather defensive. I was responding to a comment about someone wanting to use testosterone to modify their voice - nothing more.

You were responding in what I hope was a jokey manner, considering you're talking about someone who wants a permanent change, and you gave an irresponsibly dangerous temporary "solution." Whether you intended it to be or not, it's dismissive and kind of mocks the transitioning process - a process that's difficult and painful for most of the people who go through it.

 

It also legitimately is equivalent to what Amazon said. Making that joke is the same as joking that a trans woman should just use helium as a voice modification. Both of these are awful, unsustainable suggestions.

[Jett]

Maybe in future, people who are joking around should make some indication of that in their post? Like at least a or something. It seems like most of these misunderstandings are coming from the difficulty of trying to make a joke without tone of voice or facial expression to show that it wasn't serious.

[Reluctant Amazon]

For what it wasn't the post itself that bothered me, it was my sorta sitting on it. It's a perspective thing, and I was just pointing out my position. In terms of injustice, this is small potatoes.

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[Ahyar Dreamspark]

I don't know if this makes me an asshole, but...I joke about the transitioning process all the time. I'm not sure if this is because humor helps me deal with stressful things, or because I like to joke around in general. I don't say anything purposely offensive, but an example of a comment I'd make would be something like "WTF these steroids aren't working as advertized!" if I happen to fail at lifting before all the reps in the last set are done. Or, when it comes to the comment made above about someone only wanting a deeper voice from testosterone use because he likes to sing, the comment that immediately came to my mind was "HOW COME I'M STILL SHIT AT KARAOKE THEN?"

 

I also have a knack for telling awkward transitioning stories/events in a funny manner. In fact, I might have one for you all tomorrow because it'll be my first time seeing the dentist in 6 months and the last time they saw me I still had boobs and a higher pitched voice lol. The martial arts club I used to go to is also about to re-open in a new location, and I'd like to start up again but the owner is in his 60s and religious/conservative, so that should be interesting. The last time he saw me was in 2010. If I ever get back into sparring, at least I won't need boob guards anymore?

 

I find that people generally like to laugh, and if I can add some humor to awkward situations and some aspects of the transitioning process, then people tend to react a little better. I MEAN COME ON, NOBODY CAN HATE ME IF I'M FUNNY, RIGHT

 

Also, some of the non-PC and twisted humor I put in my coming-out letter that I gave my dad last January probably helped my case, because I know that my dad likes that type of stuff.

 

Which types of comments would be crossing the line, though?

[Deidara]

I think it's not that certain types of comments are crossing the line, but more how they're presented. Without proper context, it's easy to make things seem like a mockery instead of like using humor to get through something hard. So it's more about how you frame it than anything else. I do also frequently use jokes and humor about my stuff, but I frame it in a way that makes it really clear that "hey hi I'm trans and joking about my actual personal situation this isn't some dig at trans people for bein weird."

 

In other news.... BOOB GUARDS ARE A THING? I have some old sensei to go yell at for never telling me about those because I could've used those a couple of times when I was doing karate.

[Reluctant Amazon]

Fwiw in more trans focused environments I make terrible transition jokes. Which is kinda bad cause aside from a tiny bit of presenting as female temporarily, I haven't really actually done much transitioning physically. Mentally, though, that's been happening.

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[Hit]

 

 

WTF these steroids aren't working as advertized!" if I happen to fail at lifting before all the reps in the last set are done.

These example jokes seem to be focused around your self and your experiences with transitioning, I feel like thats different from making jokes about others transitions. There's a difference between "making a joke" and "making someone a joke". 

 

 

 

I MEAN COME ON, NOBODY CAN HATE ME IF I'M FUNNY, RIGHT

Personally I find this to be a very fine line - some people will just think you're a normal person, other people will use it to justify their own shit behaviour (think white kids who call each other niggas). 

End of the day though, in real life you can do whatever you please and talk about your (or others) transitions however. In safe spaces theres less leniency for questionable jokes. 

[SolitaryOrchid]

Which types of comments would be crossing the line, though?

 

I'm with Hit on this one. Joking about yourself is completely natural and I know I do it all the time, but joking at another's expense is problematic. Really context is key.

 

It sounds like there is a corner of reddit you would enjoy. It's a subreddit called /r/transgendercirclejerk and is a complete parody of all things transition. Definitely not for the weak of heart or easily triggered but I find it pretty hilarious when I'm in the mood for some self reflective humor. But that being said, that kind of humor would definitely NOT be the kind for a safe space.

[Artinum]

I don't know if this makes me an asshole, but...I joke about the transitioning process all the time. I'm not sure if this is because humor helps me deal with stressful things, or because I like to joke around in general.

This sort of thing is common - and not just in this case. I recall a comedian with a disability of some kind walking onto the stage with crutches, grabbing the microphone, letting the crutches fall to the floor and quipping "see, they can't stand up without me." There are black comedians making borderline racist jokes about being black. There are female comedians joking about misogyny. I've met dozens of gay men that send up being gay. It's a little akin to Victor Frankl's philosophy - basically, you can choose to laugh or cry.

 

And there's something in that. People get caught up in horrific accidents and lose their legs, for instance. Some of them become miserable and practically give up on their lives. The ones that recover the fastest are those that joke about it - "what was I drinking last night? I ended up completely legless!" and so on. Are they upset? Yes. Will their lives change forever? Yes, and they know that. There may be days when they don't want to get out of bed or talk to anyone. But they're the ones that take up wheelchair basketball or climb mountains or whatever else.

 

Going through a transition? You're going to get a lot of stress. You're going to get snide comments from people. It's not the same as losing your legs, but you've got the same choice - you can accept that life is absurd and you're the butt of a cosmic joke (as we all are), or you can take it all very seriously.

 

I MEAN COME ON, NOBODY CAN HATE ME IF I'M FUNNY, RIGHT

Change "hate" to "hurt", and you're onto something. Jokes are frequently a defence mechanism. If you can make the bullies laugh, they won't want to hit you. It's a hard habit to break. I've been joking about everything for about twenty years now. Sometimes I cross a line, because I don't have many lines myself and I can't always see other people's. I'm not the only one.

 

I'm not a very good comedian. I am sorry if my jokes fall flat. But they're how I stay relatively sane in an unkind, meaningless universe.

[Polaris]

Change "hate" to "hurt", and you're onto something. Jokes are frequently a defence mechanism.

This. Being a very proud person, when I make a mistake or embarrass myself, I often joke about it so others can't. There's no point for them to call me a loser if I've already been all, "haha I'm such a loser".

 

I often joke about very serious matters because I have a dark sense of humor and, yes, it helps to deal with them. I joke about depression, suicide, eating disorders, even my own history of abuse - though, of course mostly in the company of my friends who're familiar with me and my sense of humor. I also aggressively flirt with some of my friends, and everyone's aware it's a joke. Sometimes my humor slips out around people outside of my gang and yeah.. the results are not always good. Social situations can be a little hard for me sometimes.

 

Then again, sometimes I also joke about wanting to die because I actually want to die but don't want my friends to worry, even though I really do want someone to worry but don't want to be a bother, you know? "Hahaha I want to kill myself (not really (yes really))."

 

And I joke about trans stuff in the presence of my trans friend, even though I'm cis-ish. I still watch what I say because of course I don't want to be offensive, and I've told all my friends to tell me if I cross a line. Fortunately my friends find me funny rather than offensive about 99% of the time

[SolitaryOrchid]

Then again, sometimes I also joke about wanting to die because I actually want to die but don't want my friends to worry, even though I really do want someone to worry but don't want to be a bother, you know? "Hahaha I want to kill myself (not really (yes really))."

 

I did this once and everyone flipped shit and started reacting in awful ways that actually made my depression a lot worse. Kinda cut that real short for me. Unfortunately most of the people I associate with have an awful view of mental illness and are the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and be happy" or "just snap out of it" variety. I've found that I'll get little support from the people around me no matter what I say.

 

If you have friends that would support you through your struggles it could be beneficial to let them in on what's going on. Better for them to worry and not need to than to not worry and end up losing you. Either way, going it alone with depression is an awful pastime. One I have much experience in and have learned really gets you nowhere. Try not to get so caught up in worrying about what others think that you forget to take care of yourself. Help is out there.

[Hit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SkwJk9KB2c

thoughts?

[Latsu Swagneel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SkwJk9KB2c

thoughts?

I'm excited for this movie, as it is, I think, the first film to expose the specific issues that trans teens face. I would want to see it before giving my full opinion on it, though. Thank you for sharing this with us, Hit.

Sent front phone. Any mistakes are its fault.

[SolitaryOrchid]

FtM publicity is a good thing in my eyes. A lot of people don't even know we exist. And it looks like this movie will cover a lot of defining issues. From what I've seen in the preview it looks like this will be good representation.

[Twilight]

So, everyone knows about the upcoming Stonewall movie being cis- and white-washed, right? http://www.autostraddle.com/how-dare-they-do-this-again-miss-major-on-the-stonewall-movie-301957/ I will not be seeing it.

[Latsu Swagneel]

So, everyone knows about the upcoming Stonewall movie being cis- and white-washed, right? http://www.autostraddle.com/how-dare-they-do-this-again-miss-major-on-the-stonewall-movie-301957/ I will not be seeing it.

There's a petition to boycott that travesty of a film.

Sent front phone. Any mistakes are its fault.

[SolitaryOrchid]

Whitewashed really doesn't surprise me at all. There's a reason racial tensions in America are at an all time high. And the ciswashing isn't all that surprising either unfortunately. I know a lot of people who when you mention Stonewall their reaction is, "You mean that gay thing?" No mention of transgender people at all. I don't think it's all that well known outside of the community which leaves it very open for tampering in Hollywood.

[zeroh13]

Whitewashed really doesn't surprise me at all. There's a reason racial tensions in America are at an all time high. And the ciswashing isn't all that surprising either unfortunately. I know a lot of people who when you mention Stonewall their reaction is, "You mean that gay thing?" No mention of transgender people at all. I don't think it's all that well known outside of the community which leaves it very open for tampering in Hollywood.

 

Honestly, even inside the community there are a decent number of people who don't really know just how much trans people were involved with Stonewall. Or maybe that's more true for people closer to my age who weren't even alive at the time (and whose parents were probably still children)?

[SolitaryOrchid]

You're probably right. Honestly the only reason I know as much as I know about it is because I follow George Takei and he has posted a few things that were good for learning and a few other odds and ends I have come across. My parents weren't born then and even if they were they are incredibly conservative so this would definitely not be a topic of discussion with them.

[Flex Luthor]

Oh hi friends.

 

Haven't popped my head in here in quite some time. Hope you all are doing amazingly.

[Auntie]

I am going on 27 years old and while I am not out to everyone, I am to my husband, my mother (who took it to her grave because I feared others in my family if they were told) and a couple of extremely close friends (big crowd, right? lol). I won't go into full details of growing up because I know it'd be like writing a book... I've never had an 'aha' moment that told me I was different from traditional society. I've always known. Growing up in a rural area, following Baptist teachings... I've never had a doubt in my mind of who I was. Well that was until a few weeks ago, I discovered I am not bisexual. You see, I've always called myself bisexual since forever and when finally after 20 years I wanted to meet new friends, I found out there are so many labels beyond LGBTQ. I found out I am not bisexual but something closer to 'pan'. I think... at least it sounds the closest to what I feel. The FB page I had followed at the same time had got me all kinds of confused with everyone's definitions, labels, and there were even quarreling among people over it! Then hearing what people thought of 'bi' people made me feel awful. Then the suicide statistics. The MURDER statistics. I hurt for others who are going through it, have gone through it. No matter what I've personally gone through, I've never felt hurt for myself, the way I felt hurt for others.

 

One of the main reasons I am following this thread is, I want to learn from peoples experiences what they go through so that I may learn and become more educated on how I can make others feel safe and welcome. I want a moment to feel like I belong and not so alone. Sometimes I feel like a female, sometimes I feel like a boy, sometimes I feel like both. But all the time, I just feel like me. I've been this way as long back as I can remember.

 

I want to keep an eye on this thread because I'm looking for a friendly community to get to know others in. Beyond my weight loss struggles, my eating struggles, my motivational struggles. I'm surrounded by very conservative family and I know one would probably have no problem hurting me or my family if he ever found out about me. He has already proven himself to be psychotic so for now I am my in-laws hidden, dirty little secret. I do not want that to stop me from getting to know some amazing people and letting people get to know me and who I truly am.   If you actually took the time to read this, then thank you! It really does mean a lot.

[Latsu Swagneel]

I am going on 27 years old and while I am not out to everyone, I am to my husband, my mother (who took it to her grave because I feared others in my family if they were told) and a couple of extremely close friends (big crowd, right? lol). I won't go into full details of growing up because I know it'd be like writing a book... I've never had an 'aha' moment that told me I was different from traditional society. I've always known. Growing up in a rural area, following Baptist teachings... I've never had a doubt in my mind of who I was. Well that was until a few weeks ago, I discovered I am not bisexual. You see, I've always called myself bisexual since forever and when finally after 20 years I wanted to meet new friends, I found out there are so many labels beyond LGBTQ. I found out I am not bisexual but something closer to 'pan'. I think... at least it sounds the closest to what I feel. The FB page I had followed at the same time had got me all kinds of confused with everyone's definitions, labels, and there were even quarreling among people over it! Then hearing what people thought of 'bi' people made me feel awful. Then the suicide statistics. The MURDER statistics. I hurt for others who are going through it, have gone through it. No matter what I've personally gone through, I've never felt hurt for myself, the way I felt hurt for others.

One of the main reasons I am following this thread is, I want to learn from peoples experiences what they go through so that I may learn and become more educated on how I can make others feel safe and welcome. I want a moment to feel like I belong and not so alone. Sometimes I feel like a female, sometimes I feel like a boy, sometimes I feel like both. But all the time, I just feel like me. I've been this way as long back as I can remember.

I want to keep an eye on this thread because I'm looking for a friendly community to get to know others in. Beyond my weight loss struggles, my eating struggles, my motivational struggles. I'm surrounded by very conservative family and I know one would probably have no problem hurting me or my family if he ever found out about me. He has already proven himself to be psychotic so for now I am my in-laws hidden, dirty little secret. I do not want that to stop me from getting to know some amazing people and letting people get to know me and who I truly am. If you actually took the time to read this, then thank you! It really does mean a lot.

First off, welcome to our nice and friendly place! We hope you enjoy the comfort of this safe space for us.

Second, what are your pronouns?

Now, as to your point regarding labels, especially the bisexual label, one major reason there is no real consensus on the label is because of the position that it take on the Kinsey Scale. With bisexuality not falling on either extreme end of the scale, it is more open to interpretation than strictly het or homo.

Sadly, misunderstandings about it are much more frequent and tend to be a lot more damaging than the ones regarding homosexuality (I can, very easily, list many of them, many of which have been said to me). Remember, only you can define yourself. And, with that in mind, only you can determine with which label you identify, if any, as nobody should ever be able to force any label on you.

On the topic of your story with regards to your family, I can somewhat identify with a few aspects of it. I too come from a very conservative (the only thing my father watches is Fox News) and religious family (Orthodox Jewish, with Hasidic Jews on my father's side), and am, aside from my immediate family and one family friend (she happens to be closer to me than my parents), I am forced to remain closeted in the community where I live, making me my family's secret. To make things even more fun, because of my brightly dyed hair and my piercings, I am forced by my parents to wear a hat or hood to cover up my head whenever I leave the house. Otherwise, outside of that community, I am totally out and proud. In fact, for Pride, I dyed my hair to the Bi Pride flag.

As always, I speak from my own experiences. Please don't take what I said as disregarding any aspect of your experiences.

Here is a picture of a Rainbow Unicorn Butterfly Cat, as cats, butterflies, unocorns, and rainbows are absolutely awesome.

[Auntie]

I couldn't imagine having to live sheltered in a community like that. Though I have to imagine if I lived closer to the larger concentration of my family or my in-laws I would. While I may look like a typical mother/wife, I have to still stay careful on the topics I talk about and show that I am for rather than against. I identify as female so 'she' is fine. Can I ask you, when is it an ok time to ask someone their pronouns? While I heard of asking for pronouns, I was never told when it was ok to ask? I don't like making people feel awkward. living with my conservative father who is stuck in the olden days makes me feel awkward enough I'd rather no one else have to feel that way when talking to me! Also thank you for sharing aspects of your experiences with me. I feel better when others share their experiences. Makes it easier talking about our lives and what we endure just to live it knowing others live almost the same if not the same. By the way love the name and the awesome rainbow, unicorn, butterfly kitty!!

[Hit]

 

 

Now, as to your point regarding labels, especially the bisexual label, one major reason there is no real consensus on the label is because of the position that it take on the Kinsey Scale

 

I read a decent explanation of the bi/pan argument recently, which compared it to how rectangles/squares work. So every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. In the same way, pan people are bi in a loose sense, but using pan as a label provides more specificity. I feel this description works better if you imagine bisexuality as an umbrella term which emcompasses many polysexual identities under it. 

 

 

 

an I ask you, when is it an ok time to ask someone their pronouns?

the activist in me wants to say "always!" because people should be chill about being asked to identify their gender the same way people are chill about being asked their name. id say to wait until you have a private moment or to only ask when you need to be specific about their gender. "they/them" is a safe bet for when you don't know and don't feel comfortable asking. 

[Latsu Swagneel]

I read a decent explanation of the bi/pan argument recently, which compared it to how rectangles/squares work. So every square is a rectangle, but not every rectangle is a square. In the same way, pan people are bi in a loose sense, but using pan as a label provides more specificity. I feel this description works better if you imagine bisexuality as an umbrella term which emcompasses many polysexual identities under it.

Where did you read that?

I have also read posts where people use Bi as, "more than one," as opposed to strictly monosexual. Lately, I've been using the way Robyn Ochs defines bisexuality:

“I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one sex and/or gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.â€

the activist in me wants to say "always!" because people should be chill about being asked to identify their gender the same way people are chill about being asked their name. id say to wait until you have a private moment or to only ask when you need to be specific about their gender. "they/them" is a safe bet for when you don't know and don't feel comfortable asking.

I've started to make it a point to ask all my friends for their pronouns, as it then, if they don't understand what/why I'm asking, allows me to educate them about the importance of never assuming how any other person identifies.

Then again, I am a paid activist, doing grassroots outreach on an environmental protection campaign, so activism is what I live and breathe. It doesn't help that, aside from the issues I'm paid to get people to give money to, I end up talking about LGBTQIA+ issues, particularly Bi erasure/phobia, as well, usually after I've already gotten a contribution.

Sent front phone. Any mistakes are its fault.