LGBTQA and Ally Safe Space

[Hrunter]

This thread has made me all kinds of happy!

Wish I'd jumped in on the conversation sooner, mind you. Thank you for posting it, Maggerson~!

[As some of you know, I'm horribly wordy on the topic. Feel free to skip to the TL:DNR, cause I'm catching up for all these pages!]

High fives, hugs and 'the more you know!'s for all the coming out as LGBT*Q+ SOFFAs!

Total super queer, here. Dating a lovely two-spirited lady for a little over a month and a half <3

Secretary Treasurer for my local LGBT*Q+ group, though I tend to look more like a chicken missing its head.

I have a slight obsession with learning about issues affecting queer folks, queer theory, becoming a better ally, etc.

Apologies in advance if I come off as a queer-pedia typed twerp.

Relatedly, I had started compiling some stuff about Health & Fitness during (various types of) transition, but would love perspective from others - I'm still horribly clueless about the variety out there (having only every talked about it with 2-3 other trans*/GQ people). I mean, a resource for (not only) other NFers could help people, right?

And in terms of on the NF boards, its hard sometimes for me to tell whether or not its appropriate to jump in on the Mens/Womens threads, unless there's already some distinct gender variety present.

@ Erawka:

I agree, its nice to have people be civil if not positive - definitely have not run into any bashing on the boards, personally!

Also, there's a hearty lol about the birkenstocks.

@ Staci: There're definitely people who've been careful with whom they disclose. If opening up will help any fellow Nerds, then I definitely hope this helps! <3

Thoughts on definition of queer:

Despite its ambiguity, Queer is quite a succinct identity label for some people. In a lot of LGBTQ (or QUILTBAG, for those that prefer~!) contexts, Queer is often a "Positive, Affirming, Catch-all for gender and sexual minorities". Some groups use it to include Bears, Twinks, Cougars, Silver foxes (and the whole host of animal named demographics and their related chasers) and/or kink/leather groups, both casual or lifestylers. One that is becoming more common (in my province at least) is support for various "non-traditional" relationship orientations.

Its use is kinda double edged in some places. I know one conference I attended handled it really well by opening up with 'when using the word queer at this event, please use it in the context of positive catch all, etc.' Probably the best I've seen it managed overall, though there's still bound to be hurt feelings somewhere out there. Over all, it seems to be a regional thing. Some people have reclaimed it, others haven't.

Example:

Hrunter:

A FAABulous, frequently dysphoric, fluid, possibly intersex though yet to be kerotyped, primarily masculine Genderqueer, who is a poly-flexible though serially monogamous, pan-romantic, sapio-androphillic & pan- sexual WHO LOVES ALL THE CUDDLES!

The A in LGBTQA and QUILTBAG:

Asexual (partially or wholly absent of sexual attraction, non-pathological and distinct from hypo-sexual.) Wonderful resource: http://www.asexuality.org/home/

but could also refer to

Agender (partially or wholly non-gender[ed], in feeling and/or identity) I don't have a resource that's exclusive to agender topics, but genderqueerid.com has some (limited) information on it and does provide Q&A on Tuesdays and Saturdays, should you not immediately find an answer to any related questions.

I'm sure there could be a few others, but those are the first two that come to mind <3

@Realbrickwall: You've definitely hit a big one on the head - even within the LGBTQ+ community there are restrictive groups or perspectives. A common one I've seen is cisgender lesbian groups denying access to lesbian trans*women. One of the recent foods for thought in my group is 'what really constitutes a safe space? If any one person is discriminated against, is it still a safe space?" it takes a lot of work to maintain them for sure. Super happy that there's so much positive response on this thread for keeping things a safe space.

About Bi-phobia: I had identified as bisexual a while back, I've had some similar (and often very irritating) run ins with the stigma. "You're really this." "It's a phase." "How's that different from X?" and more than enough shaming comments. And questions about cooking tools, when I came out as Pan-. ._. That gets old, fast. I've found that finding and hanging out with other poly-sexual people is a good relief :3

Robyn Ochs has an interesting essay on their website about Bi-phobia within the community. If I remember right, 'e breaks it down to a 'some people are afraid of the fluidity that can accompany poly-sexual orientations.' Thoughts?

@ Lizifer: Thanks for the article <3 Might share it on my group's facebook page. Also the whole media-projected image of lesbians? You're not alone in that. I read somewhere that the majority of lesbian porn is made by straight men. That could be a source of that label to image association?

@Andygates: Love for Dax. Was a hero of mine, tbh, while growing up. Hmm. Definitely going to have to rewatch some good 'ol DS9.

QUILT GAB or QUILT BAG

I've not read it as GAB before! I've also seen the U as "Unassigned at birth".

DADT/Military service in the US

I'll admit, being Canadian (and too young to remember when our equivalent was in effect) I don't have much perspective of DADT. I agree that it is a horrid practice and am glad that its been removed. Also glad that the de-listing of Gender Identity Disorder as an 'illness' from the DSM *may* mean Trans* people can serve openly, in the future! Anyone have experiences/thoughts/perspectives/guesses of what's next to share?

Labels

I'm pretty big on 'if it works for you, use 'em.'. Going through that 'what am I?' identity process, I can see a touch of both aspects. Having words/labels can be relieving and empowering, providing a sense of direction towards community and support. They can also be used by others to tear a person down, on the disheartening end of things.

+1 for opening the dialogue on what words to use/not use here on the boards and overall. (starting below!)

Discussing the "I"

@Raikas, definitely curious about the shifting in terminology. I'm from a medical background, so for me, its always been intersex. Is there a more appropriate/polite/preferred term at this point?

I know that there has been a big concern that in societies with dyadic sex assignment, Intersex persons face a lot of stigma due to the listing of 'disorders of sex development'. (I know of no reason it should be considered disorder, personally. I'll admit to knowing very little, other than possibly having had [whatever the proper terminology would be for] neo-natal sex assignment alterations. Something that I'm quite disappointed in the medical community for delving into.)

*will return to expand post~!*

[katpower]

*cough* might surreptitiously check out boobs in the changeroom even though I'm straight... What? Boobs are interesting!

[realbrickwall]

I have met few, if any, straight women who do not like breasts. I don't understand it, but hey, something we can all talk about, right?

[Avistew]

We spend so much time with them right under our noses, I get we develop some affection for them.

[realbrickwall]

By that logic, men would be enamored with moustaches.

...

Actually, in my experience, men like moustaches far more than women, so, yeah, I guess that logic shakes out. Huh.

(New mating strategy: stand below your prospective mate's nose for years. They will come to find you delightful in spite of logic)

[leadchipmunk]

(New mating strategy: stand below your prospective mate's nose for years. They will come to find you delightful in spite of logic)

Genius! Now to perfect my shrink ray... Mwahahaha...

Also, a reason men may like moustaches more than women, have you ever kissed a guy with a moustache? It really isn't the most pleasant feeling, trust me. Guys don't normally kiss other moustached guys, so they don't have to worry about the unpleasantness of it.

As a side note, I apologize to any future women I kiss, I'm keeping the moustache and attempting to grow it out to handlebar proportions.

[azsf]

Irony; suggesting guys dont kiss other guys in a gay thread

[nightlight]

Irony; suggesting guys dont kiss other guys in a gay thread

awesome.

[leadchipmunk]

Irony; suggesting guys dont kiss other guys in a gay thread

Yeah, I caught the irony when I hit send. Forgot what thread I was in for a minute.

[CyningaDena]

FWIW, I tend to assume everyone's straight unless proven otherwise, just because that's the most common.

A friend was recently asking me how on earth to find a partner in Montana, and I said the opposite -- I assume everyone is gay and fair game for flirting until they either shoot me down or punch me. It's the only way to tell, here.

Also, a reason men may like moustaches more than women, have you ever kissed a guy with a moustache? It really isn't the most pleasant feeling, trust me.

That's not a moustache issue...that's just a grooming issue. Regular trims, some shampoo/conditioner meant for facial hair, and some post-shower conditioner or oil on occasion will make your lurve partner wonder why you never brought a moustache to the game before. Might even make them ask for the full beard.

[leadchipmunk]

That's not a moustache issue...that's just a grooming issue. Regular trims, some shampoo/conditioner meant for facial hair, and some post-shower conditioner or oil on occasion will make your lurve partner wonder why you never brought a moustache to the game before. Might even make them ask for the full beard.

There's shampoo and conditioner made just for facial hair? I've never heard of that...

[Atalan]

There's shampoo and conditioner made just for facial hair? I've never heard of that...

http://www.beardcareproducts.com/

Or if you're cheap and know an equestrianist, you can probably get some horse mane shampoo and conditioner from them.

[Wolverine]

http://www.beardcareproducts.com/

Or if you're cheap and know an equestrianist, you can probably get some horse mane shampoo and conditioner from them.

Holy balls, there's a pirate themed beard shampoo and conditioner. I FREAKIN' LOVE THIS THREAD!

[kasers]

When I told my friends that I had bought some weights and was going to start working out with them their response was something along the lines of "OMG, how much of a lesbian are you?". Was just wondering if anyone else has to deal with this stereotype or if you've ever had any remarks regarding your sexuality and your workout preferences?

[nightlight]

When I told my friends that I had bought some weights and was going to start working out with them their response was something along the lines of "OMG, how much of a lesbian are you?". Was just wondering if anyone else has to deal with this stereotype or if you've ever had any remarks regarding your sexuality and your workout preferences?

honestly, i never have had to deal with this. maybe because of the way i dress and look, people just assume i'm straight until i tell them otherwise. also, my friends from crossfit are just as nuts about working out as I am, and most of them ARE straight, so...

what did you say? did you feel bad about this? how did you deal with the situation?

[CyningaDena]

There's shampoo and conditioner made just for facial hair? I've never heard of that...

Your regular Pantene will just dry out the hair so it gets all bristly, and the skin too, so then you have the added bonus of moustache dandruff. Regular face soap is worse, and never really rinses nicely. The right tool for the job, though, and you'll get all the snogging.

[AngelaTheGeek]

When I told my friends that I had bought some weights and was going to start working out with them their response was something along the lines of "OMG, how much of a lesbian are you?". Was just wondering if anyone else has to deal with this stereotype or if you've ever had any remarks regarding your sexuality and your workout preferences?

Being healthy = super lesbian? Wait... maybe that's awesome? Take it as a compliment next time, and tell them you are being the best lesbian you can be.

honestly, i never have had to deal with this. maybe because of the way i dress and look, people just assume i'm straight until i tell them otherwise. also, my friends from crossfit are just as nuts about working out as I am, and most of them ARE straight, so...

what did you say? did you feel bad about this? how did you deal with the situation?

People also assume I'm straight because I don't "look like a lesbian." The last time someone said that to me, I asked them what a lesbian actually looks like to them, they fumbled over words like butch, dyke, manly, etc., until I rolled my eyes and walked away. Maybe it's because I carry a purse? Or paint my toenails pink occasionally? Whatever it is, it completely baffles my mind when people say things like this.

[CyningaDena]

Ohhh, this just hit my Facebox -- an article from Details (well known for their cutting-edge journalism) called Why Gay Men Make the Best Bosses. I'm curious as to what other folks think.

I'm always put on my guard by anything that suggests there's some inherent characteristic attached to queer sexualities, even when it's a characteristic that's praised (like "adaptability, intuitive communications, and creative problem-solving"). I'm not certain what the article means, exactly, by saying that gay managers are a "new breed" (though I think it's fun that the writer used a reproductive metaphor to talk about gay men). And I pretty much gagged at the end with the saccharine cliche of "We throw the fiercest holiday parties."

At the same time, the suggestion that the closeting and coming-out experiences might have common consequences is interesting to me. It's nice to think that there's some gold to be mined from that utterly shite experience.

Then again, the "closet" itself is a culturally-specific metaphor that isn't experienced by queer folk world wide. We are of so many minds about this article!

[Thrillho]

Being healthy = super lesbian? Wait...

I think they're worried that, come the zombie apocalypse, the only survivors will be superfit lesbians and trim gays, and there will be no-one to repopulate the planet.

The gay agenda involves zombies, by the way. Just FYI.

[Flex Luthor]

When I told my friends that I had bought some weights and was going to start working out with them their response was something along the lines of "OMG, how much of a lesbian are you?". Was just wondering if anyone else has to deal with this stereotype or if you've ever had any remarks regarding your sexuality and your workout preferences?

I don't know what kind of guys you hang out with but chicks that lift weight are hot and I would want them to be straight lol

[AngelaTheGeek]

I think they're worried that, come the zombie apocalypse, the only survivors will be superfit lesbians and trim gays, and there will be no-one to repopulate the planet.

The gay agenda involves zombies, by the way. Just FYI.

Yeah, I'm not repopulating anything... Ew. And thanks for the tip on the agenda... I'm trying to keep notes on it so I know what people are referring to the next time I hear about "the gay agenda."

[kasers]

Being healthy = super lesbian? Wait... maybe that's awesome? Take it as a compliment next time, and tell them you are being the best lesbian you can be. People also assume I'm straight because I don't "look like a lesbian." The last time someone said that to me, I asked them what a lesbian actually looks like to them, they fumbled over words like butch, dyke, manly, etc., until I rolled my eyes and walked away. Maybe it's because I carry a purse? Or paint my toenails pink occasionally? Whatever it is, it completely baffles my mind when people say things like this.

honestly, i never have had to deal with this. maybe because of the way i dress and look, people just assume i'm straight until i tell them otherwise. also, my friends from crossfit are just as nuts about working out as I am, and most of them ARE straight, so...

what did you say? did you feel bad about this? how did you deal with the situation?

I don't really take things to heart so i wasn't that bothered by it. I just think people assume I'm going to end up looking like a female bodybuilder or something? I don't really look that gay I don't think anyways. I even wore a dress and heels for my best mates wedding back in April. http://http://imgur.com/y8UJt (I'm the one on the right).

Anyways I'm the one who is losing weight and is hopefully going to have a lovely figure soon and when they ask how they did it I shall say I used my lesbian weights.

In reply to the gay managers in the workplace. It's obviously because they make the place more fabulous

[nightlight]

People also assume I'm straight because I don't "look like a lesbian." The last time someone said that to me, I asked them what a lesbian actually looks like to them, they fumbled over words like butch, dyke, manly, etc., until I rolled my eyes and walked away. Maybe it's because I carry a purse? Or paint my toenails pink occasionally? Whatever it is, it completely baffles my mind when people say things like this.

yeah, i think people just make assumptions because i too, carry a purse, paint my nails, blah blah blah. i think the assumption, unfortunately, is if you don't look super butch/dykey there's no way you like girls. and you're right. it's completely baffling.

[kasers]

I think they're worried that, come the zombie apocalypse, the only survivors will be superfit lesbians and trim gays, and there will be no-one to repopulate the planet.

The gay agenda involves zombies, by the way. Just FYI.

To repopulate the planet we'd either have to leave it to the bisexuals or we'd have to invest in alot of turkey basters!

[AngelaTheGeek]

yeah, i think people just make assumptions because i too, carry a purse, paint my nails, blah blah blah. i think the assumption, unfortunately, is if you don't look super butch/dykey there's no way you like girls. and you're right. it's completely baffling.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with butch women, but if I were butch, there is no way my beautiful partner would have even noticed me. In fact, I went through a small butch phase right after coming out because I thought that was how you get the pretty women!