The Problem(s) with CrossFit Article

[smazzon1]

http://gawker.com/5928989/the-problems-with-crossfit?tag=i-of-the-tiger

I just started CrossFit and gave this a read. What do you guys think? He starts out with pros but gets into some big criticisms (one of which is money, and I basically agree with).

[ellystar]

He has some good points about the cons of CrossFit. But some of his arguments are flawed.

His first point is subjective, which doesn't make sense when he has other arguments that are fact based. I hate working out alone. I don't push myself and I have no accountability. His trademark argument makes no sense. McDonalds can't trademark hamburger patties and buns and all that stuff, but they can trademark the Big Mac. It's the sum of those exercises that makes it CrossFit. And I love socks like that.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Agree with 3, it is way too expensive considering that the space is smaller. However, the equipment isn't really all that much cheaper if they're getting quality stuff though and I'm sure the insurance is higher. Still, the price points are hard to afford unless you're hardcore into Crossfit, which is what I think leads to the cult thing. Crossfit has a much higher percentage of people who are hardcore about it because you need to be somewhat hardcore to justify paying for it.

Disagree with 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Let's take them in order.

1. Most people like that it's a group thing, you have others there to motivate you and a community to support you. I personally agree with the author in that I tend to enjoy working out alone more, but it's not a negative of Crossfit. If you want to do it alone, go for it, work out on your own and follow a WoD website.

2. It's the sport of Fitness moron, it's designed for TOTAL fitness. It shouldn't be your main training method if you’re training to be athletic in a specific way? No shit. This is like saying power lifting is crappy because it's too specific and won't get most people to their goals. Once again, not a negative.

4. Kipping pull ups are a different exercise. I do agree that it's annoying if someone tries to say they did 21 straight pull ups without adding kipping in. They're a different exercise and people should make sure they differentiate when talking about it. Does this mean it's a negative of Crossfit? No, I actually take it as a positive. They promote a pull up variant that lets you condition your back without the large back strength required of strict pull ups. Once you have that down, then move on to strict pull up then pick the form you perform depending on the situation and goals after that.

5. You'll get injured if you train hard in any sport. Running, power lifting, Olympic lifting, any of the major sports. Is it more dangerous than a bench press machine? Sure, but it is also much better for you.

6. He admits it's not really like a cult and it's the zealots that are creepy. Every sport has zealots, there's a steroid loaded woman at my gym that really freaks me out, and there's been some yoga instructors that are pretty weird as well.

7. If they're doing all the work and research to make a gym routine, sure they can, just like Insanity and P90x.

[msuroo]

I'm not a crossfitter, so take this for whatever it's worth (read: not much), but the cost comparison to commercial gyms is such an apples to oranges comparison. It's like comparing the cost of earning an online certificate with an on campus university degree - it's just not the same. You pay to join a commercial gym because they have equipment that you don't. That's not the case with crossfit - nobody pays to join crossfit because "they have the best pullup rigs." The value proposition in crossfit comes from the level of personal attention and coaching that you get. For the most part, that is only matched at commercial gyms when you pay for personal training (which in almost all cases would end up costing a lot more than crossfit for the same number of hours in a month).

I'm not saying that crossfit isn't expensive - but whether or not it's too expensive isn't for me or Hamilton Nolan or anyone else to judge. And comparing it to a commercial gym just doesn't make any sense.

[CalvinHobbes]

Agree with 3, it is way too expensive considering that the space is smaller. However, the equipment isn't really all that much cheaper if they're getting quality stuff though and I'm sure the insurance is higher. Still, the price points are hard to afford unless you're hardcore into Crossfit, which is what I think leads to the cult thing. Crossfit has a much higher percentage of people who are hardcore about it because you need to be somewhat hardcore to justify paying for it.

Disagree with 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7. Let's take them in order.

1. Most people like that it's a group thing, you have others there to motivate you and a community to support you. I personally agree with the author in that I tend to enjoy working out alone more, but it's not a negative of Crossfit. If you want to do it alone, go for it, work out on your own and follow a WoD website.

2. It's the sport of Fitness moron, it's designed for TOTAL fitness. It shouldn't be your main training method if you’re training to be athletic in a specific way? No shit. This is like saying power lifting is crappy because it's too specific and won't get most people to their goals. Once again, not a negative.

4. Kipping pull ups are a different exercise. I do agree that it's annoying if someone tries to say they did 21 straight pull ups without adding kipping in. They're a different exercise and people should make sure they differentiate when talking about it. Does this mean it's a negative of Crossfit? No, I actually take it as a positive. They promote a pull up variant that lets you condition your back without the large back strength required of strict pull ups. Once you have that down, then move on to strict pull up then pick the form you perform depending on the situation and goals after that.

5. You'll get injured if you train hard in any sport. Running, power lifting, Olympic lifting, any of the major sports. Is it more dangerous than a bench press machine? Sure, but it is also much better for you.

6. He admits it's not really like a cult and it's the zealots that are creepy. Every sport has zealots, there's a steroid loaded woman at my gym that really freaks me out, and there's been some yoga instructors that are pretty weird as well.

7. If they're doing all the work and research to make a gym routine, sure they can, just like Insanity and P90x.

Everything I wanted to say but couldn't get the words out before Corey

[Waldo]

4. Kipping pull ups are a different exercise. I do agree that it's annoying if someone tries to say they did 21 straight pull ups without adding kipping in. They're a different exercise and people should make sure they differentiate when talking about it. Does this mean it's a negative of Crossfit? No, I actually take it as a positive. They promote a pull up variant that lets you condition your back without the large back strength required of strict pull ups. Once you have that down, then move on to strict pull up then pick the form you perform depending on the situation and goals after that.

Kipping however removes a lot of the strenght aspects as you are no longer applying consistent load, you are getting a plyometric assist, progression becomes much more difficult. Especially since movements tend to get ingrained. I'm sure you would be against someone doing for example a rounded back jumping squat variation before learning with the barbell as they would learn a lot of poor movement patterns.

While yes the standard kipping pullup is no big deal it is quite annoying when someone tries to compare kipping to non-kipping. It really minimizes the difficulty of the non-kipping pullup, especailly for high reps.

On the other hand the competition kipping pullup of crossfit, butterflies, are horrible. Not only did they steal the name of one of the hardest pullups possible (a straight arm cross pull), but there is a strong potential to add a ballistic stretching element to the shoulders when doing them, that is incredibly stupid to do, putting you at very high risk for a SLAP tear. All purposeful kipping pullups have an elevated risk of a SLAP tear vs. a regular pullup, but the butterflies are especially bad.

[Absidey]

Everybody up there did a very good job of covering the real stuff, but I'm huffing about:

If your own fitness goals possess this near-absolute level of vagueness, Crossfit is perfect for you. You do a little of everything.

Wanting to do a little of everything is not vague. Especially not "I want to look like <insert actress/actor>" vague!

[Trad_Climb]

"You can't trademark working out"

This point hits home for me, I work out at a regular what ever you call it gym, I do Olympic lifts, I wear high socks when I do them so I can better protect my shins, and I wear a bandana like I'm a blood or crip because my god I sweat a lot. I have been asked SO MANY TIMES if I crossfit. Nope

Went to a free day at a local crossfit gym, did their WOD and then after played with their bumpers and did some cleans and snatches. The gym owners wife comes up and says:

"wow how long have you been a cross fitter?"

"Today is my first time..."

"But your form is so good!"

"What.....Oh you mean the OLYMPIC lifts... yeah I've been Olympic lifting for 8 months now"

The idiot actually thought that Olympic lifts = crossfit.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I read this article a good while ago. couple months at least. I did cross fit for a bit. I agree its too expensive....but we also have to say that you are basically paying for a personal trainer. and if you can afford it and want it..well there you go.

I don't need someone pushing me. Sometimes I need some additional guidance. I have a few strength questions i'd like to ask. I don't need to pay that much money for it.

I agree with the kipping pullups argument...except...well...cant they be used to gain a bit more strength? like...if you can do 10 regular pullups but like 15 kipping...and you do only kipping for a week or two will you not eventually get to be able to do 11 or 12 regular? you're still hanging in there. its like an assisted pullup is it not? just a thought. but i can do like 30 kipping pullups. only 15-20 normal.

socks? yeah why are they such a big deal? see i dont care if people wear them. do what you like. awesome. fun. cool. just don't go around screaming about it. i just dont get it. but then i'm not a girl and don't get excited about socks.

i'm really 50/50 on agreement with this article. personally crossfit is...it just depends what you want. like anything. Like why do I want a 1985 Toyota Corolla GTS? well because i like that car. Others want a pick up truck. it's just your interest. nothing wrong with that. I think really the writer of this article (as well as I depending on the day) just has a bad taste in his mouth because crossfit gets crammed down our throats all the time. Anything is annoying if everyone is telling you its the greatest thing in the world. Like the jock in high school. "hey i'm the f***ing BEST EVER SO F*** YOU! JOIN ME!" that gets old. not that all cross fit goers do this. just as a whole that seems to be the mentality that is promoted.

I know this sounds like i'm bashing crossfit. I'm really not. i love it and love people that do it. many many people. It's just I can see why he would have this perspective sometimes.

[Trad_Climb]

crossfit gets crammed down our throats all the time. Anything is annoying if everyone is telling you its the greatest thing in the world. not that all cross fit goers do this. just as a whole that seems to be the mentality that is promoted.

YES this exactly, I hate that BS of "your work out is my warm up" I'm so intense and edgy!

Ok well my last work out was a front squat 3x3@295 pounds (no brag) though, you must be an elite level powerlifter if THAT is your warm up.

[Guest Snake McClain]

YES this exactly, I hate that BS of "your work out is my warm up" I'm so intense and edgy!

Ok well my last work out was a front squat 3x3@295 pounds (no brag) though, you must be an elite level powerlifter if THAT is your warm up.

I can't even back squat this. Crap I'm weak.

But seriously yes. If that's your warm up you're serious business. LOL

[Zima]

The cost factor and the fact that it's group-based are my biggest issues with it. Working out is like meditation/sacred-time-away-from-humanity for me. And I always listen to Amon Amarth when I do it. If I find a group that would want to listen to Amon Amarth while working out, and didn't charge 100 a month, I'd do it. Fyi, I always find cheap gyms that charge 20-30 a month memberships - I hate big chain gyms. And currently, I use my college gym for free. So 100 a month is a lot. If I were to pay that for any fitness-related thing, I'd spend it on martial arts. But that's not an argument against crossfit - I just happen to be interested in martial arts.

I think it's a much better type of group exercise than almost any other, though.

[rtalencar]

Fist, can anyone past in the rant? I can't access that website from work.

I used to have a huge bias against crossfit, mostly cause I met a few of the 'zealots' and thought they were tremendous asshats. I've since thought about it more and changed my perspective. Who's to say crossfit isn't worth it for other folks? There may be more efficient ways to train, but if you love it, that's going to be a whole lot better for you than doing something you hate and quitting. The elitism that stems from xfit can be kind of annoying, granted, but it's to be expected. If you didn't think what you were doing was the best for you, wouldn't you change and do something else? Waldo, sorry to call you out, but bodyweight exercises suck horribly, iron is better. I'm of course not being serious, but I guarantee you if I were he'd be putting together a detailed post about how I'm wrong and all the benefits of bodyweight and so on. I use him as an example because it's very clear from his posts that he loves doing bw work, and if that's what works for him that's fantastic and he should keep doing it. It really doesn't matter if a specific iron routine would be a little bit better, if he hates barbell work and won't do it, it doesn't matter. Some people love xfit, and if they love doing it and it'll help them get stronger and stay in shape, they should keep doing that.

The complaints about form, while valid, are also overstated. It's not like people at normal gyms don't lift with atrocious form as it is. The same argument could be made for every single other lifting style (or sport, for that matter) out there, because someone, somewhere is doing it wrong. I tore my oblique horribly earlier this year because I back squatted beyond my means. Injuries happen in other lifting styles too. Also, if you're talking about the risk of injury from kipping a pullup, doing a muscleup, or doing a box jump, why aren't you arguing about the dangers of scrumming or rucking in Rugby, or the dangers of getting ktfo in martial arts? Those are whole helluva lot worse for you, and there are obviously many other examples as well. A friend of mine in rugby finished a game with a fractured skull. I badly hyperextended my arm in a judo competition years ago and finished the tournament (two more matches) with only about 10% mobility in my right arm. Anybody who's competed at any kind of serious level I'm sure has seen folks playing to point of and beyond injury. It comes with the territory and frankly, if you're not pushing that limit, you're either not trying hard enough, or you recognize the risks and have chosen to play beneath them. If you're in the later category it's your responsibility to stay safe, and that applies whether you doing xfit, or lifting at the gym, or doing yoga.

As for the theft/bastardization of moves from gymnastics and oly lifting: that's EXACTLY what MMA did to traditional styles. And people love MMA and argue all the time about how great a style it is. A crossfit kipping pullup or muscleup or oly lift may never be what their 'purer' original form intended, but that doesn't really matter. They were never supposed to be. If you want pure gymnastics or oly lifting, you'd do gymnastics or formal oly lifts. Arguing that they stole from the thing you love is just getting upset that something else is potentially more popular. It doesn't really benefit anyone.

Also, lots of hot chicks do xfit, and who doesn't love hot chicks?

[aj_rock]

Also, lots of hot CRAZY chicks do xfit, and who doesn't love hot chicks?

FTFY.

Ok, not every hot girl doing xfit is crazy. But a pretty good portion of them are

[rtalencar]

FTFY.

Ok, not every hot girl doing xfit is crazy. But a pretty good portion of them are

This conversation could go many places that would probably insult a lot of people lol, so I'll just leave my response at 'most people who are dedicated to a sport at any kind of serious level are pretty crazy'. I wish I had youtube access from work, linking Cap'n Kirks 'I WANT TO HOLD IT!!!' video seems oddly appropriate right now.

[bigm141414]

FTFY.

Ok, not every hot girl doing xfit is crazy. But a pretty good portion of them are

*...ducks before NF Females pounce on AJ....*

[nightlight]

well. yeah, he's got some points.

but it's GAWKER, people. they are not a serious news outlet. i take everything i read there with a major dose of sarcasm and realize they don't have very much objectivity.

[chairohkey]

[internal Debate] CrossFit thread...trying not to post.[/internal Debate]

When it comes to CF I'm of the same opinion as Paul Carter, CrossFit is basically adult gym class, but it gets people off their asses. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2012/10/my-crossfit-rant.html

[rtalencar]

[internal Debate] CrossFit thread...trying not to post.[/internal Debate]

When it comes to CF I'm of the same opinion as Paul Carter, CrossFit is basically adult gym class, but it gets people off their asses. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2012/10/my-crossfit-rant.html

Fully agreed.

[UberMoM]

I do the WOD that has been scaled for us who are new to the fitness thing. The reason that I like it is because it takes the thinking out of "what am I going to do at the gym today". I don't go to a crossfit gym, because I am cheap and can use the post gym for free. I also prefer to work out alone. It is my moment of zen and listening to other people whine or cheer ruins that zen.

With that being said, I happen to really like that it is so general. I don't want to train for something specific as I don't have any hard core goals.

I think their pull ups look neat. Especially from someone who can't even do one assisted pull up. They just look cool.

I think that crossfit has just organized circuit training. It really reminds me of metabolic circuits in a lot of the ways that it is set up. In that aspect I think their method of organization could be trademarked.

I don't wear socks when I work out. o.O

[chairohkey]

I think that crossfit has just organized circuit training. It really reminds me of metabolic circuits in a lot of the ways that it is set up. In that aspect I think their method of organization could be trademarked.

I disagree. If you look at the mainsite WOD you'd see there's really no method to their madness. How does HQ program? I imagine its similar to South Park’s depiction of the Family Guy writer’s room (which consisted of a team of manatees that would choose five random “idea balls” and push them into a compartment that formed their next scene).

[UberMoM]

I disagree. If you look at the mainsite WOD you'd see there's really no method to their madness. How does HQ program? I imagine its similar to South Park’s depiction of the Family Guy writer’s room (which consisted of a team of manatees that would choose five random “idea balls” and push them into a compartment that formed their next scene).

Snicker, you may be right. Perhaps they are on the same programming. I also don't use the main site because I can't complete 1/3 of the exercises called for in a standard WOD so I could be wrong.