Doping, pro sports, and Lance Armstrong

[Raincloak]

In case you've been living under a rock, Lance Armstrong finally "came clean" if such a term can be used for such a dirty, dirty cheater.  He admitted on Oprah that he'd doped in a variety of ways for all his Tour de France victories, and used his wealth and power (eg lawsuits) to silence those who hinted at the truth.  Hormones, drugs, blood transplants, you name it.

 

I am so, so disappointed.  I wasn't a huge cycling fan or Lance devotee, but I wanted to believe he was for real.  A lot of folks did.

 

Pro sports is kind of a weird phenomenon.  We pick these people who are genetically gifted, pay them millions of dollars to perform stunts, and then legislate which "performance enhancers" are okay and which are not.  I suspect in another 50 years (or less), gene therapy and maybe even designer athletes will be on the table.  They might be better athletes (and therefore better to watch), but ethics dictates they be barred from the games.

 

thoughts?

[Zorch]

The part to me that bothers me the most is not that Lance doped(cycling was a filthy, filthy sport for a long time, and makes players baseball's steroid squad look like a bunch of choir boys), and not the fact that he denied it, but the fact that he went out of the way to attack and go after the reputations of his accusers.  That, to me is inexcusable.

 

It's still hard to give a 100% verdict on Lance one way or another - he's done good work related to cancer awareness through his foundation, he obviously put in a ton of work(most of the field was doping, and he smoked them) and had phenomenal genetic ability, buthe was flawed as a person - as witnessed both by his lying about doping, and by some of his behavior/treatment of people outside the sport.

[Pyth]

More despicable then Tiger Woods.

[Namednoname]

I'm the same, so so disappointed. I'm not a huge cycling fan either but I still admired him for dominating cycling so much, as I do with other athletes who have become 'Great' at a sport. 

 

Nowadays it feels like you can never really be 100% sure that someone isn't cheating. At least that's the way I feel lol.

[Raikas]

The part to me that bothers me the most is not that Lance doped(cycling was a filthy, filthy sport for a long time, and makes players baseball's steroid squad look like a bunch of choir boys), and not the fact that he denied it, but the fact that he went out of the way to attack and go after the reputations of his accusers.  That, to me is inexcusable.

 

^This.  Cycling is known for the doping.  Every year there would be a list of stage winners on the Tour (and other races) who tested positive, so I've always assumed that they're all doping (and I think most people who follow cycling have thought so too).  If he'd just admitted to it I think most cycling fans would have just shrugged and said "Yeah, they all do it".

 

Although maybe not the people who were fans of him specially rather than the sport, so that must have made it more complicated.  But even so.

[Book]

My feelings about him have always been complicated at best, and I know I could write forever about it, because a lot of what I feel comes from my personal experience.

 

In terms of athletics, I always assumed that he was doping, but I still respected his achievements, because the field was pretty level. In other words, in a world without doping, I think he would have been just as dominant.

 

However, I lost my respect for most high-level athletes a long time ago. This is partly because I've met enough of them to know that they are, in general, really unpleasant, selfish people. For Lance in particular, I was never really all that impressed with the Livestrong stuff, because I questioned his motives. I think that his personal wealth, power and fame were greatly enhanced by his Livestrong activities, and I think, given his disregard for most people, it's likely that he was never doing it for the right reasons.

 

However I have an extra reason to dislike people like Lance because of the fact that I figured he was doping. I'm one of those people who had a pretty good athletic career, but who chose not to use PEDs, and is left to wonder how I would have done if *my* field had been level. Could I have made an Olympic team? I came kinda close in '94, and one of the people who *was* selected was later caught for steroids.

 

In terms of how he treated the people who tried to out him, I'm honestly not sure what to think. He engaged in what is very typical corporate behavior, to go on the attack when accused, even when the accusations are true. *Particularly* when they are true, and what did Lance Armstrong become if not a pretty major corporation? Hundreds of millions of dollars were at stake, both for him personally and for Livestrong. I'm sure he had huge legal teams advising him to go on the attack. So, if I hate him for this, then don't I have to hate Microsoft and Apple and DuPont and Viacom, etc, etc, etc? Oh, by the way, I work for a multinational corporation. Yes, it's despicable. And then... who did he hurt? Other riders who were dopers themselves? Don't care. Greg LeMond? He was probably dirty too, and the main thing he lost was a few million dollars from bike deals. Not a tragedy. Sports journalists? From what I could see, their efforts toward this story were about a half-step up from TMZ. I don't have a lot of sympathy, and besides, now that they've been vindicated, their stature is bigger than ever. Someone like the masseuse is a different story. Not that I know many of the details, but here's someone who probably has no significant resources and was probably just in a bad position at a bad time. The attacks against her didn't need to be so vicious.

 

In short, Lance was never my hero, so his fall didn't surprise or matter much to me. I don't think this is going to make sport any cleaner, or make people treat anyone any differently. I think he was a pretty typical ass athlete, he just happened to be on a really big stage.

[guest439437484421]

This is from someone that doesn't really follow sports.

 

Did he cheat?  Yes.  Did he lie?  Yes.  Did he pay the consequences?  Yes.  Did he start a cancer awareness foundation and then step down from it after allegations and final admission?  Yes.

 

 

So yeah, basically a dick, but there have been much worse in the past and he's paying for his choices.

[sylph]

...snip...

Aside from the "almost making the Olympic team" part (that's awesome, by the way) I'd say you pretty well hit the nail on the head regarding my feelings about the subject.

[Nomad Jay]

While he was never a personal hero of mine, he did have a different public image about 10 years ago. I remember him being held up as a role-model for "clean living and hard work" in Texas (his home state) and did some appearances in different areas of the state encouraging kids to get out and exercise. My disappointment is that the kids who did grow up admiring this guy just found out their hero was a fraud.

[sumdawgtwigg]

Really disappointing but the sport is full of dopers. He's done a lot of good in cancer awareness, so still props for that. 

[andygates]

There's a big clearout been going on in the last few years.  Back when Lance was dominating, it was basically a tainted field.  Now, the whole field is riding slower - a sure sign they've got less of the good shit turning their blood to jam and making hair grow on their eyeballs.

 

Oh hey, it's Superb Owl day.  I'm a bike fan and a Brit, so I get to make a Snark Mary pass.  How's the testing regime among all those huge, hulking sonsabitches? 

[Book]

That was awesome. You're my hero, Andy.

Yeah, the American media is so incredibly hypocritical, and perhaps no more so than on the issue of PEDs. The *contined* large-scale use of PEDs in all major American sports with the knowledge of the media is a joke.

One 'Journalist' has taken a small step outside the box. Not far, but it made for interesting reading:

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8904906/daring-ask-ped-question