N. Korea threatens preemptive nuclear strike against aggressors

[Laney]

IMO this is an extremely important issue, and all those in the Rebellion deserve to know. We need more minerals! Here is the original article, and an updated news list as the events unfold.

 

The proposed sanctions North Korea called an "act of war" (summarized from here), which the Security Council passed a few hours later:

• Ban on exporting luxury goods to North Korea (intended to target goods used by North Korea's elite)

• Freeze on all North Korean money thought to be connected to missile programs

• Ban on financial support for anything related to missile programs

• Travel sanctions that would effectively force out all expats working for North Korean ventures

• All North Korean cargo must be inspected

• 3 arms dealers and 2 international organizations have been specifically targeted and sanctioned (from here )
   

Here is an info-graph on Korea's missile inventory (from here)

 

 

[andygates]

Ech, politics.

 

Also, Norks LOL.

[tee-jay]

I'm definitely going to read these articles, but first can I PLEASE say how many times I loled at Dennis Rodman referring to Kim Jong Un as his "friend for life?"

[Laney]

Ech, politics.

 

Also, Norks LOL.

 

Haha still important

 

I'm definitely going to read these articles, but first can I PLEASE say how many times I loled at Dennis Rodman referring to Kim Jong Un as his "friend for life?"

 

Don't wanna make war... Heh

[Raincloak]

I don't do the disaffected hipster "I'm too cool to pay attention to the news" shit. 

 

But ... why is this important?  North Korea has been puffing its crest and swishing its tail for decades, and not a lot has happened.  Frankly I'm more concerned about Iran getting nukes and using them against Israel, which could really start a world war.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

I don't do the disaffected hipster "I'm too cool to pay attention to the news" shit. 

 

But ... why is this important?  North Korea has been puffing its crest and swishing its tail for decades, and not a lot has happened.  Frankly I'm more concerned about Iran getting nukes and using them against Israel, which could really start a world war.

Agreed that NK is mostly smoke and mirrors and its likely China would through them under the bus if they got too far out of line. The problem is if they did set off WMD's a lot of people would die, which is always a bad thing.

[Laney]

I don't do the disaffected hipster "I'm too cool to pay attention to the news" shit. 

 

But ... why is this important?  North Korea has been puffing its crest and swishing its tail for decades, and not a lot has happened.  Frankly I'm more concerned about Iran getting nukes and using them against Israel, which could really start a world war.

 

Agreed that NK is mostly smoke and mirrors and its likely China would through them under the bus if they got too far out of line. The problem is if they did set off WMD's a lot of people would die, which is always a bad thing.

 

 

They are master bluffers, absolutely, and as much as I would love to not take this seriously, it feels a little bit different time. New, younger leader looking to prove himself, a few test done recently, and now they are acting like they have the capability to do something, so they might actually try. "The boy who cried wolf" analogy applies here, but if something does happen it will involve several other countries and won't be some simple skirmish. North Korea is giving the rest of the world a reason to do something about them

[tee-jay]

They are master bluffers, absolutely, and as much as I would love to not take this seriously, it feels a little bit different time. New, younger leader looking to prove himself, a few test done recently, and now they are acting like they have the capability to do something, so they might actually try. "The boy who cried wolf" analogy applies here, but if something does happen it will involve several other countries and won't be some simple skirmish. North Korea is giving the rest of the world a reason to do something about them

 

This...could not have been stated any better.

[UberTumbleweed]

I don't do the disaffected hipster "I'm too cool to pay attention to the news" shit. 

 

But ... why is this important?  North Korea has been puffing its crest and swishing its tail for decades, and not a lot has happened.  Frankly I'm more concerned about Iran getting nukes and using them against Israel, which could really start a world war.

 

Fortunately, neither the British secret service nor the CIA believe that Iran's nuclear programme is aimed at anything more than power plants.  There are reports, from Israeli sources, that even Mossad doesn't believe that Iran is moving towards nuclear weapons (although they may or may not be assassinating Iranians involved in power plant development).

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

Fortunately, neither the British secret service nor the CIA believe that Iran's nuclear programme is aimed at anything more than power plants.  There are reports, from Israeli sources, that even Mossad doesn't believe that Iran is moving towards nuclear weapons (although they may or may not be assassinating Iranians involved in power plant development).

Do you have a source to back that up?  That's inconsistent with what I hear in the US national media.

[Zorch]

Do you have a source to back that up?  That's inconsistent with what I hear in the US national media.

I'm generally not one to play up conspiracy theories all that much, but it should come as little surprise that the government might put forth a position that doesn't accurately represent everything it knows in order to advance its agenda.  Just about every government, business, etc. will do this stategically, at one time or another.

 

On-topic, I think this is mostly posturing and bluffing on NK's part - mostly because they have nothing to gain.  I believe NK's leadership is more "crazy like a fox" than actually crazy, and they realize that if they launch a nuke/other WMD at ANYONE:

 

1. China won't have their back anymore.  China is a pretty strictly self-interested actor when it comes to foreign policy, and the last thing they want is a stream of North Korean refugees coming across their border.  China wants a STABLE Korea, and the minute missiles start flying that will no longer be the case.  The same holds true of Russia - they don't like the USA, but they'll be even less fond of the idea of missiles being lobbed in eastern Asia.

 

2. The US, our allies, and a host of other nations will smash their regime into oblivion.  NK knows this and isn't so blindly irrational that they want this to happen.  By all accounts their new leader is ruthless and wants to show his strength, but he's also not blind to reality.

[andygates]

Ministry of Silly Threats.

[Timmy M]

Ministry of Silly Threats.

ahaaa indeedy

 

but lets not forget the sort of things we hear about in North Korean news, a lot of people in charge a grade A mentalists and completely obscure the publics eyes to the truth (people actually BELIEVE this shit) there'll be people in NK, possibly some in high command who believe all the bullshit about how great/powerful/supernatural etc the Kims are.

i hope it is all posturing but there's nothing worse than a group of madheads with something to prove and some nasties to back them up (despite the fact that they'd get obliterated the second something's launched)

[andygates]

The way to get a bit of power (if you don't have much) is to scare people with what you might do.

 

Considering them anything more than Pythonesque figures ("Harro, I want a war." "Certainly sir, the full conflict or a course?") just empowers 'em.

 

Stiff upper lip chaps.  America gets dangerous when it's frightened.

[Timmy M]

The way to get a bit of power (if you don't have much) is to scare people with what you might do.

 

Considering them anything more than Pythonesque figures ("Harro, I want a war." "Certainly sir, the full conflict or a course?") just empowers 'em.

 

Stiff upper lip chaps.  America gets dangerous when it's frightened.

 

oh please let that be a python sketch and yeah i can't really help but see most scaremongering terroristy types like that guess that's a combination of never experiencing anything like it and my complete belief in my own immortality 

[UberTumbleweed]

Do you have a source to back that up?  That's inconsistent with what I hear in the US national media.

 

I don't have my best sources on this computer, but here's a quicky from Israeli media, Haaretz, and one from the NY Times.  Basically, although there is evidence of an increase in nuclear programs, there's no reason to assume it has to do with weapons.  The country struggles to provide enough steady power to its citizens, so without evidence to say "weapons", I am perfectly happy to accept their assertions that they are only interested in providing power and jobs.

 

I'll save my worrying for countries that actually have nuclear weapons and a proven desire to use them.

[WordSmith]

I don't have my best sources on this computer, but here's a quicky from Israeli media, Haaretz, and one from the NY Times.  Basically, although there is evidence of an increase in nuclear programs, there's no reason to assume it has to do with weapons.  The country struggles to provide enough steady power to its citizens, so without evidence to say "weapons", I am perfectly happy to accept their assertions that they are only interested in providing power and jobs.

 

I'll save my worrying for countries that actually have nuclear weapons and a proven desire to use them.

I have to agree with that. I mean Iran actually wants to stabilize their country. Having said that if/when this does occur then it wouldn't surprise me if the research switched to weaponizing. 

As far is N. Korea is concerned...well I'm a little concerned for S. Korea but mostly I'm concerned for the people of N. Korea who are starving in their homes, which is a majority. N. Korea's actual threat to the US, negligible. 

[UberTumbleweed]

I don't feel especially threatened by the thought of Iran having nuclear weapons, not any more than I feel about other countries having them.  The majority of people on the ground are less radical than their government and surprisingly pro-American.

 

And for North Korea, I too am more worried about the people there who are in absolutely desperate conditions.  I understand the threat of a nuclear strike is stronger now than it used to be -- but I don't feel it's particularly worse than when Pakistan and India were at war recently, and they didn't come to nuclear blows then either.

[KAllen]

Why does Iran need nuclear energy???  they are sitting on an ocean oil.  Iran is trying to make nukes and we should send them a few for them to study...up close and personal. 

 

N.Korea is a total joke.  ANYTHING they have we could shoot down long before it gets here.  Plus the retaliation would be "a bitch" for them since EVERY nuke we would send them would hit it's target.  Well...maybe, I mean, this is Pres. Hussein we're dealing with and he loves him come commies!!!

[UberTumbleweed]

Why does Iran need nuclear energy???  they are sitting on an ocean oil.  Iran is trying to make nukes and we should send them a few for them to study...up close and personal. 

 

Minimal refinery capabilities, fields in shared-border zones, only a partial recovery from damage done during the war with Iraq, a high rate of natural decline in the oil fields, and an inability to get the tech to do enhanced recovery techniques due to lack of finances (which is partly due to sanctions).  It's not so easy for a money-poor state to get their resources without foreign investment to bring in new technologies.  A lot of Iran's oil simply isn't accessible, largely because of sanctions, whereas they do have the ability to study nuclear power.

 

I will admit a bias in preferring an increase in nuclear power to an increase gasoline-based power, however.  Also, I'm not a citizen of whatever country Pres. Hussein rules.

[WordSmith]

YEAH!!! NUKE EVERYONE!!! IRAN, N. KOREA, IRAQ, EVERYONE!!!! If we just nuke every other country before they nuke us then we will be absolutely safe and never have to worry about anything every again...*

 

*Disclaimer: This comment is dripping with sarcasm.

[Timmy M]

YEAH!!! NUKE EVERYONE!!! IRAN, N. KOREA, IRAQ, EVERYONE!!!! If we just nuke every other country before they nuke us then we will be absolutely safe and never have to worry about anything every again...*

 

*Disclaimer: This comment is dripping with sarcasm.

 

yet soaked in logic

[KAllen]

Since when has Iran cared about sanctions.  They are in cahoots w/ Russia and China and N. Korea and can and do trade oil w/ them.  Mid-East oil is relatively shallow so it's not difficult to get it out of the ground, and they still have oil drilling equipment.  Also, if they are so "money poor" how can they afford the nuke testing/procesing/and the Uranium to make nukes???  Oh yeah, I almost forgot about their gun/weapons running for terrorists like the Hamasistinians(to use on Israel) al-Queda (to use on US, GB, and other Western countries).