What do you believe?

[RisenPhoenix]

Agnostic athiest with a smattering of Taoist principles.

 

I'm apparently a "mean" atheist because I will call people out on bullshit if it's presented to me.  I won't start it, but I will most certainly finish it (it may stem from being slapped, insulted, and generally harrassed by my semi-Catholic family for DARING to claim myself as an athiest.  I think my mother had an easier time admitting my brother was gay than I was an atheist).  Given I do this also in politics, it makes me giggle how people seem to not care there but get all angry when a simple contrary statment is made about *insert prefered deity here* is made.

 

My baseline is believe what you want, but don't pester me with it.  Besides, even if you are "divinely inspiried," (which I find suspect to begin with.  Ron L Hubbard claimed to be divinely inspired) you're likely going to communicate it wrong anyway.  Anyway, if you need an ancient bunch of texts to be told murdering someone isn't really cool and that you should try to be nice to people (whilst claiming it's the only one to do so, to boot), please go away.  I don't want you near me or anyone I care about.

[FyreFlies]

I guess I made up for it by being the one with the good grades???

 

You mean you're the nerd. Explains why you're here and working in such a high-ranking place. lol. I'm glad, success stories like your brother's are wonderful. I've always been around people who use every excuse in the book NOT to do something. I like to point out people like your brother to those people and be like.. uh huuh.. if they can do it, so can you homie. lol.

 

Given I do this also in politics, it makes me giggle how people seem to not care there but get all angry when a simple contrary statment is made about *insert prefered deity here* is made. 

 

I don't have a problem with people saying stuff about my beliefs - heck, Muslims are the black sheep of of the world since 9/11 worldwide. It doesn't faze me. I do, however, always find it interesting when someone who is an atheist (I have close friends who are) who go OUT OF THEIR WAY to point out the faults of other beliefs. It's almost as if they're turned it into a belief itself. Because isn't believing something to the point of carrying out rituals or actively reacting to it also a sort of religion?

 

My Religious Philosophy professor said it best when he said - the guy that goes to a NY Giants game with his face painted, hollering at the players, then proceeding to get in a fight with a dude that supports the other team - can be called "religious." 

[Timmy M]

My Religious Philosophy professor said it best when he said - the guy that goes to a NY Giants game with his face painted, hollering at the players, then proceeding to get in a fight with a dude that supports the other team - can be called "religious." 

 

would you call the 'disciples' of mark ripptoe and crossfit religious then? (some are definitely zealots) *stir*

[guest439437484421]

I'm... not sure.  Somewhere between athiest and agnostic, with a hint of some christian in there (i kinda believe in a sort of heaven and hell?).

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

would you call the 'disciples' of mark ripptoe and crossfit religious then? (some are definitely zealots) *stir*

I wonder about this when people who don't go to church get bent out of shape when there is no prayer before a high school football game.

[FyreFlies]

Timmy. Yep. I mean we spend ridiculous amounts of money feeding the habit don't we? Like buying special weight-lifting shoes, gloves, chalk etc. We have a set time we go and "practice." We get obsessive on how deep we squat *groan*.

 

I can speak only for myself - but my workout rituals on a daily basis can be seen as a neurotic religious practice. It's even gotten to the point that the one day I DON'T work out, I feel like something is missing and am usually in a bad mood that I have to relax. lol.

[Irish Oisin]

I'd tend to call someone on what I would consider bullshit as well when they just abandon all logic and reason in the face of blind faith.

 

When someone refuses to question the world and universe, I don't want to know because it's a closed conversation and it can never go beyond "god(s) made everything"

[Irish Oisin]

I hope this doesn't degrade into an internet argument where there can be no possible winner, ever.

 

We all have different beliefs, but right here, on an internet forum, is not the place to express some pointless anger!

 

We're all people, descended from space tacos.

[FyreFlies]

Am I being argumentative? O_o

 

Sorry if I am - don't mean to. Just pointing out that being religious doesn't necessarily mean a set idea or whatever. Like Synyster said. Anyways, to each there own. I'm gonna go do some more practicing (my uphill mid-day jog). lol.

[Tanktimus the Encourager]

I hope this doesn't degrade into an internet argument where there can be no possible winner, ever.

 

We all have different beliefs, but right here, on an internet forum, is not the place to express some pointless anger!

 

We're all people, descended from space tacos.

Yes, but what kind of space tacos? Crunchy, soft, beef, chicken, fajita?  What kind of hot sauce, if any?

[RisenPhoenix]

I hope this doesn't degrade into an internet argument where there can be no possible winner, ever.

 

We all have different beliefs, but right here, on an internet forum, is not the place to express some pointless anger!

 

We're all people, descended from space tacos.

 

+1.  Honestly, this is the most mild, respectful theologically-based thread I think I've ever seen on the intarwebs.

 

Also a +1 to calling people out on Blind fatih, Irish. Drives me up a wall when people think "Because it makes me feel good/it feels right" is a completely justifiable way to try and convert someone and refuse to even grasp that emotions are not a viable reason for accepting (or dismissing) something.

 

That being said, -1 to the taco.  We are all obviously decended from space quesodillas.

[Irish Oisin]

Quesodillas?!!!

 

Are you crazy?!

 

The great space taco came down from on high and bits fell out of his crunchy exterior and we grew from that, EVERYBODY knows that!!!

[PrincessHeather]

I am so glad this continues to be a calm discussion of something that is so very personal

 

I have to say that the comments on blind faith are a little curious to me, as we have to take any number of things on faith everyday. I have faith that my husband loves me, and he displays numerous actions that can show me that he does, but I can never enter into his mind and know for absolute certain the depth or arrangment of emotions that he feels towards me. I take it on faith that he means what he says, and it makes me happy to have that faith. I don't think it makes me irrational to accept that or to let it influence the way I live my life.

 

As for evangelism, this video of

sums up something that I think is completely correct for people of faith. The TL;DR is that if someone really and truly believes we need to be saved from our sins/hell/damnation/etc, how could they NOT want to share that with as many people as they can, in the name of loving them? Granted, MANY people go about this in ways that are hurtful, unproductive, and downright arrogant, however in principle, people spreading awareness of their faith are doing exactly as they should... ensuring that everyone has had the opportunity to make that choice.

 

For the record, I grew up Catholic, converted to being Christian when I was 16, and was baptised as an adult last year. I believe whole-heartedly in a loving God, and in Christ as a redeemer.

 

I also prefer super spicy fajitas without any tortillas at all to tacos or quesodillas 

[Timmy M]

Space taco's? heathen filth! do you people know nothing! http://www.venganza.org/

[FyreFlies]

I have no clue where the heck you all decended from, but I definately did NOT decend from a taco or anything else spicey. Pfft! It's Holy Cake from whence I hail.

 

Tacos and quesadillas - TUT!

[Irish Oisin]

WHAT?!

 

Holy cake?!

 

CAKE?!

 

How DARE you ignore the obvious evidence that exists showing how space tacos created us in her crusty, meat filled image.

[RisenPhoenix]

I have to say that the comments on blind faith are a little curious to me, as we have to take any number of things on faith everyday. I have faith that my husband loves me, and he displays numerous actions that can show me that he does, but I can never enter into his mind and know for absolute certain the depth or arrangment of emotions that he feels towards me. I take it on faith that he means what he says, and it makes me happy to have that faith. I don't think it makes me irrational to accept that or to let it influence the way I live my life.

 

Heather, not to be overly argumentative... but did you notice how you started talking about having faith in your husband's love, followed immediately after with mentioning evidence for your husbands love?  Yes, you can never know, 100% that it's true, but you can never know 100% that we're not delusions in your head, either.  Yes, you might not *have* to look for it, but if you do, it's *there.*  I trust (or have faith, depending on the definition we wish to use) that the peer-reviewed publication I built my most recent experiment on was actually performed, gave the results that are published, and that if I do exactly what is said the results will be comparable.  So I go ahead and use it as a source.  If things go wonky, I can always follow the evidence back to the source and determine if that trust was warranted (and the number of times other labs have tried to replicate things and failed I feel is the one of the largest ways scientific cheaters get caught).  But there is always a trail there in case I need to track something back.

 

Blind faith, in this case, is not the same as trusting a source.  Blind faith in this context is believing in something without evidence (and no, I do not count the Bible/Torah/Qua'ran/Theogany/RLH's favorite sci fi novel as evidence, nor sunshine, puppies, or pretty rainbows.  The former were written by old dudes in power, the latter are just an awesome benefit to the universe).  Blind faith is bad, in my opinion.  Trusting those around you is not.  That definition of trust, equivalent to faith, is fine in my book.

 

 

Quesodillas?!!!

 

Are you crazy?!

 

The great space taco came down from on high and bits fell out of his crunchy exterior and we grew from that, EVERYBODY knows that!!!

 

Lies!  The Gran Quesodilla split Itself into thousands of perfectly angled segments, which planted themselves in the ground and from THERE we sprung forth.  Furthermore, the shape of the planet is an obvious sign that we were birthed from the perfectly circular Cheesiness.

[FyreFlies]

Irish - are you dissing my beliefs now? Your denial of accepting our cakeness won't win you any frosting in the hereafter. I recommend you sit and think deeply of the consequences of that.

[Red1263]

So rather than seeing Christians VS Catholics or something similar to it, I'm going to see Space Tacos VS Quesadillas and Holy Pastries!

[Timmy M]

So rather than seeing Christians VS Catholics or something similar to it, I'm going to see Space Tacos VS Quesadillas and Holy Pastries!

 

if only youtube saw fit to follow our lead

 

also CAKE? the paleo gods shall smite thee for such impudence! (hypocrisy considering i linked spaghetti monster lol but now you see me trollin')

[Rostov]

It's funny, really.  I used to have quite strong religious belief when I was much younger and am now, as I said earlier, a humanist first and an agnostic second.

 

I think this puts me in an unusual position of having experience of what it's like to have faith and of what it's like not to have it.  Reading this thread I'm far from unique in that, but what I'd say to anyone who hasn't personally experienced both states is that there's something that you just don't - and can't - fully understand.  And further, you can't make yourself experience it, and no amount of reading and researching will help you.  There's an old argument in the philosophy of mind about Mary the Super Scientist, who knows everything there is to know about optics and colour, but is herself colour bind and can only see in black and white.  If her colour blindness can be cured, will she learn anything new when she sees something that's red for the first time, even though she already knows all there is to know about red? I'd say yes, and I'd say that if your God has always been a more or less constant presence in your life then you don't fully understand atheists/agnostics and vice versa.  Further, I'd say that if you've had both experiences and you can get beyond the simplistic "I was wrong then, I'm right now" then you're in a rare position to translate between mutually incomprehensible groups who just don't understand each other.

 

So I find myself sticking up for religions and religious people against the militant atheist types, and for atheists against the less tolerant religious.  What I've learnt in all that time is that there are two great sins that people make in those debates.

 

The first is gross (and often deliberate) distortions of the views of others, to the extent that it's a straw target at best and outright slander at worst.  Whether it's the bizarre "atheists have no morals" argument or lumping everyone of the same religion together as if they all believe the same things, completely uncritically, and take the worst example of their religion as the norm.  Honesty and integrity are vital.  There's no excuse for propaganda.

 

The second is the assumption that we're accountable to each other for what we believe (which is different from being accountable for what we do), and that we've got to somehow justify to each other what we believe.  Some people set themselves up as the ultimate aribter of what's reasonable, and think they're entilted to judge others - often without any kind of insight or understanding of what it's like to have/not have religious beliefs.

[katpower]

Sometimes I dream that I'm fighting demons or ghosts or whatever (as you do) and I try to resist them with Christian prayer. Then I wake up and remember I'm agnostic. I always wonder if that means that deep inside, I'm more religious than I think I am - or if it's just my sleep brain storytelling...

[Vian]

You're all wrong. Chocolate covered bacon is the true mother of creation. Your spicy, cheesy mexican foods are but servants to her sweet-salty will. From her smokey, perfectly-cured womb erupted all life, and from her rich, sweet coating came knowledge and goodness into the world.

[FyreFlies]

also CAKE? the paleo gods shall smite thee for such impudence!

 

Oh come now! What's the meaning of religion without a lil bit of sin thrown in?

 

hehe.

 

I concur - partly - with Vian. At least with the chocolate part. Sorry.. this is supposed to be a serious thread. *points fingers at Irish for bringing in the tacos*

 

Erm, and Synyster - stop reading so much Chuang Tzu - it'll make you crazy like it did me at one point. lol.

[re-animator]

You're all wrong. Chocolate covered bacon is the true mother of creation. Your spicy, cheesy mexican foods are but servants to her sweet-salty will. From her smokey, perfectly-cured womb erupted all life, and from her rich, sweet coating came knowledge and goodness into the world.

 

I can get behind that. Praise her smokey crispness brothers and sisters; let her wrap you in her melty chocolate embrace brothers and sisters; and let her heavenly scent of woodsmoke and sugar ever fill your nostrils.

 

But in all seriousness, I'm an athiest here, but I am fascinated by all religions and as long as what a person practices doesn't hurt anyone I say believe what you want to.