All Things Discipline

[basscrack]

So, it was suggested on my challenge thread that a thread be created completely devoted to discipline! How to have it, how to expand it, how to get better at it, etc.

 

 

From Merriam-Webster.com (I only used the definitions that applied... I don't think we are trying to get better at punishment. Although I see how that could work....)

dis·ci·pline noun \ˈdi-sə-plən\

4

: training that corrects, molds, or perfects the mental faculties or moral character

5

a : control gained by enforcing obedience or order

 

b : orderly or prescribed conduct or pattern of behavior

 

c : self-control

 

 

A few people made good suggestions already, which I would just like to quote here:

 

I'll start off: Self control (or discipline, or whatever you want to call it) is a limited resource in a human. (theres a study about it with turnips and cookies) It is limited, therefore it can be increased, or trained like a muscle. Just gotta start somewhere

 

 

By habitualizing things, you reduce the self control cost of things significantly.

For example, if you stop snacking every day right after getting home from work, the first couple days and weeks will be self control expensive. But this becomes a habit soon enough, and it will take very little self control to say no to a snack attack at that time.

Exercise can be very much like that. Get in the habit of exercising every day at the exact same time, and it takes zero self control to do. Exercising at that time is what you normally do. This why I think that in general it is easier to stick to a 7 day a week or 5 day a week (weekday) exercise schedule than trying to do it a few times a week, simply because it becomes a much stronger habit and takes no self control or willpower to do.

 

For me, discipline is about making myself do things I don't want to, like go to class, eat properly, clean up my house, do homework, work out, etc. It is also about completing these things in a timely manner, as procrastination is a big problem for me. I will put off getting ready for work until 10 minutes before I have to leave then rush getting ready. Lastly, it's about not making excuses. I am an emotional rationalizer, and I make excuses for everything.

 

How about you? What does discipline mean to you? Any helpful tips/tricks/advice you could share on becoming more disciplined? Any great resources you've come across? Let the discussion begin!

[sumdawgtwigg]

I like this thread already, it has Arnold's crazy face on it. 

[I-Jo]

oh irony....

my friend and I were having a very deep conversation about the emotional connection people have with food/eating and the issues I personally have with discipline and how it affects my diet, training and personal life.  

 

has meeting- more later!

[cn3wton]

I have found the 20 second whatever post on here really helps.  Don't think about doing something just start doing it.  I generally do this with certain projects I don't want to do.  The longer you wait around the more excuses you will have and the longer it takes.

[Jakob Kopfeld]

Since I heard more about the study I'm referring to in the op (short summary of said study to follow below) I've been training my selfcontrol at every opportunity that I get. For example: When I have a smallish quantity of consumable items that I really enjoy (used to be cookies, cigarettes anything like that) I'd leave one, or some times more. And then test myself on how long I could hold off on eating it. It's important here that you keep in mind that you have it, want it, but CHOSE to not eat it. If you put it out of sight and forget about it the exercise is pointless. 

I like to think it helps, but I have no way of proving or testing my hypothesis.

 

 

The aforementioned study works like this (this is all from memory so I aplogize for minor mistakes)

 

There is a room with a table in it. On the Table there's 2 bowls. One is filled with cookies and the other is filled with turnips/horseradish/something else that tastes not as good as cookies. You split your test persons into two groups. Group 1 gets to eat whatever they want, group two may only have the horse radishes. Both groups may eat as much as they want. After about 30 minutes in the room with the bowls you take your subjects to the next room, where they are confronted with an easy to understand but insoluable problem. A set of numbered points where the proband is suppsed to join the points with a straigth line that may not cross another line. 

The study shows that people who got to eat cookies would devote waay more time (think 4-5 times longer) to the puzzle before giving up. 

[Irish Oisin]

I find that talking to myself helps and it's usually something like this

 

"Go to the fucking gym Oisin, do you want fat Oisin to come back? That guy? Go to the gym and lift heavy things"

 

It works for me, and even in the gym "Come on Oisin, one more, one more" 

 

All muttered under my breath like a perfectly sane person.

[Pyth]

Muttering under your breath is a perfectly acceptable way to manage your own mind. I also find myself doing it...I repeat a mantra that has become a favorite of mine. It's corny as hell, and spoken by Arnold himself. "Who do you want to be pyth? Not what, but who?" That reminds me, either take the steps to be who I want, or fail. I don't like failing, and so I carry on winning.

[Red1263]

I find that talking to myself helps and it's usually something like this

 

"Go to the fucking gym Oisin, do you want fat Oisin to come back? That guy? Go to the gym and lift heavy things"

 

It works for me, and even in the gym "Come on Oisin, one more, one more" 

 

All muttered under my breath like a perfectly sane person.

I do the same thing to help bring myself to do things, it sounds more enforcing when it's spoken out loud, or at the least outside of one's head.

 

Hey Oisin, if someone asks why are you talking to yourself you should say, "Because I need expert advice!"

[BiosDude]

Love this post! I find with my ADD that it is a gift and a curse. If I find something interesting, I can spend hours/days focusing on it to the exclusion of everything else. If I find it boring, it is very hard to get motivated to do anything. It's like that it has a super Teflon coating!

 

Gotta run. More on this later. :-)

[sumdawgtwigg]

I find that talking to myself helps and it's usually something like this

 

"Go to the fucking gym Oisin, do you want fat Oisin to come back? That guy? Go to the gym and lift heavy things"

 

It works for me, and even in the gym "Come on Oisin, one more, one more" 

 

All muttered under my breath like a perfectly sane person.

 

I do the same thing, it really does help me get motivated to go get it done. If nothing else to get myself to shut up.

[ZachAcid]

Whenever I question my self-control discipline I like to read the first chapter of The Art of War by Sun Tzu; it is filled with amazing wisdom and strong encouraging statements that macromanage your micromanagable faculties.

My Favorite Excerpt:

 

Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State.

 

It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin.  Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.

 

The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

 

These are: The Moral Law; Heaven; Earth; The Commander; Method and Discipline

 

My personal translation of these faculties are

 

The Moral Law: What am I obliged to do for myself to stay healthy?

Heaven:  Weather conditions; Job constraints

Earth: Distances, Heights, Obstacles, Terrain

Commander: Self (Sun Tzu said this perfectly, "The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerity, benevolence, courage and strictness.")

Method and Discipline: Troubleshooting Problems, Problem Solving, Planning, Execution, Results

 

Hope this helps somebody else!

[Irish Oisin]

I read Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography recently and it's possibly the most inspiring thing I've ever read. He came from nothing and though his drive and focus he achieved everything he achieved. I have passed the book on to a few people since and everyone raves about it, it's a wonderful read.

 

If Arnold can sculpt his body into what he did, then I can go to the gym 3 times a week as well as my other physical activities.

 

On what I said earlier about talking to yourself, standing over a loaded barbell, out of breath saying "One more, come on, one more!" Love it!

[I-Jo]

I am discovering I believe I have self discipline issues.  I find many of my decisions are based on forced self discipline to simple "see if I can do it"  and this extends well outside the realm of food and fitness.  Those are probably the two most easily understood of mine. 

 

I dislike being out of control.  I struggled with depression for many years- through many seasons of life- and I hate feeling depressed and out of control.  So I often force control into my life.  If I was really on the downhill- I would binge drink to the point of black out.  I would lose almost all control of everything I had.

 

So it's constantly in my waking hours- proving to myself that I can absolutely- without fail- do something. There is no try- I refuse to fail.  I have a strange relationship with my current 2+ year long boyfriend.  And I beginning to think even myself control issues have tremendously impacted it.  

 

Self discipline is not to be questioned in my world.  If you commit to something- you do it.  I haven't spent a tremendous amount of time pondering this- but I suspect if I were to delve deeper- I'd say TOO much self control is more of an issue for me than a lack there of... but like I tell everyone else- if looking this fabulous was easy- everyone would do it.   It takes sacrifice and dedication- hard work and discipline.  Some people simple don't want to work that hard for it. 

[Burizado]

I find that talking to myself helps and it's usually something like this

 

"Go to the fucking gym Oisin, do you want fat Oisin to come back? That guy? Go to the gym and lift heavy things"

 

It works for me, and even in the gym "Come on Oisin, one more, one more" 

 

All muttered under my breath like a perfectly sane person.

 

 

YES!  I do this in the gym as well.  Look in the mirror, right in my eyes, and say under my breath, "I'm gonna show YOU how great I am."

 

Did this after watching this video about a year ago. 

[MariahSnow]

I read Arnold Schwarzenegger's autobiography recently and it's possibly the most inspiring thing I've ever read. He came from nothing and though his drive and focus he achieved everything he achieved. I have passed the book on to a few people since and everyone raves about it, it's a wonderful read.

 

If Arnold can sculpt his body into what he did, then I can go to the gym 3 times a week as well as my other physical activities.

 

On what I said earlier about talking to yourself, standing over a loaded barbell, out of breath saying "One more, come on, one more!" Love it!

 

Which one? The "Total Recall" one or the bodybuilding one? I just bought the bodybuilding one after watching an ESPN video about Arnold's first competition. It was so inspiring and I remember my brother reading Arnold's bodybuilding book (not the encyclopedia one).

 

Also, a friend posted an article on facebook recently about how awful you feel after hitting the snooze button. I have been known to snooze for 3 hours. Literally. It was insane. Last year for Lent, I gave up the snooze button. I just stopped touching it. And for whatever reason, it worked. And it continues to work. So my friend asked me about it, asked me how I stopped snoozing, and asked me what I did and I basically told him that nothing works - putting the alarm across the room, setting multiple alarms, etc. I just made a conscious effort to get to sleep at a decent time (I was waking up at 4:30 to do bootcamp-style workouts with an ex-Navy SEAL), and I knew that if I didn't wake up, there was no snooze safety net. I felt kind of lame just telling my friend to, "just do it" but sometimes that's what it takes.

 

It's the same for me with diet, just do it. I put all the rationalization out of my head and ask myself, "is this healthy?" I'm not talking about like, "well I can eat this donut now and just have a salad for dinner" No. Is it healthy? And if the answer is no, then I don't eat it. You have to take your brain out of the equation because you can rationalize your way to eating a dozen donuts and you brain will tell you it's cool. I learned this, like I-Jo, from dealing with years of depression. My brain is sometimes my biggest enemy, the biggest trickster, and the creator of illusions. Break it down to a yes or no question.

 

I just made myself sound like a super badass, but it should be noted that I still oversleep, I miss workouts, I eat stuff that's bad for me. Discipline is limited and you just do the best you can. These are only two instances where it has worked for me most of the time.

[Burizado]

Since I heard more about the study I'm referring to in the op (short summary of said study to follow below) I've been training my selfcontrol at every opportunity that I get. For example: When I have a smallish quantity of consumable items that I really enjoy (used to be cookies, cigarettes anything like that) I'd leave one, or some times more. And then test myself on how long I could hold off on eating it. It's important here that you keep in mind that you have it, want it, but CHOSE to not eat it. If you put it out of sight and forget about it the exercise is pointless. 

I like to think it helps, but I have no way of proving or testing my hypothesis.

 

 

The aforementioned study works like this (this is all from memory so I aplogize for minor mistakes)

 

There is a room with a table in it. On the Table there's 2 bowls. One is filled with cookies and the other is filled with turnips/horseradish/something else that tastes not as good as cookies. You split your test persons into two groups. Group 1 gets to eat whatever they want, group two may only have the horse radishes. Both groups may eat as much as they want. After about 30 minutes in the room with the bowls you take your subjects to the next room, where they are confronted with an easy to understand but insoluable problem. A set of numbered points where the proband is suppsed to join the points with a straigth line that may not cross another line. 

The study shows that people who got to eat cookies would devote waay more time (think 4-5 times longer) to the puzzle before giving up. 

 

I do this during the holidays when candy is in bowls around the house.  I make it into a game.  Can I not have any peanut m&ms until they are gone?  Everyday I have to look at them, they sit right next to the couch when I watch TV or play games.  It would be so easy to just reach over and grab a handful and stuff in my face, but it is the challenge of seeing if I can win the "game".

[Irish Oisin]

Total Recall: My Unbelievably True Life Story. He glosses over his workout routines and just talks about his ambitions and reasons for doing what he did, and it's an amazing read! I gave it to my friend's wife and before it her attitude was "He's a womaniser, such a pig...blah blah blah" and after it she liked him because of his drive and unrelenting can-do attitude!

 

You must not rack-a de disiprine! (Sorry guys, its all I can hear when I see this thread)

[MariahSnow]

All I can think of is: "No more, Mr Kimble, I have to go to the bathroom. THERE IS NO BATHROOM!"

 

http://youtu.be/zY-qy-iuXU8

[I-Jo]

baw ha ha ha ha

 

IT"S NOT A TUMAAAAAAAAAA

 

love that movie

[Irish Oisin]

I'm a CAAP YOU IDEE-AT!!

[Vector]

The most basic help I have is this:

Do not punish yourself with choices.

What does that sentence mean to you? Time to feed the animals, but I'll be back...

[Elder]

Do not punish yourself with choices.

.

 

I am terrible for giving myself too many choices and it usually turns out like a punishment in the end because I hate myself for not getting things done.  If I give my self too many decisions I spend all my time trying to make one decision. Sometimes I even overload my brain with too many decisions.  If I keep it simple with either a "do it" or "don't do it" attitude I will usually "do it" because it is the most rewarding and positive choice.  If I have a bunch of variations in between ("do half now and half later", "do it this way", "do it that way", "A", "B","C", "P", "Z") I will get overwhelmed and won't do anything.

 

I definitely have to work on my self discipline, I am such a procrastinator!  But the more self-discipline I practice the better things get.  It's a work in progress.

[Vector]

About the punishment of choices.

 

I've looked at a bunch of different things, books, articles, etc., and the focus is on how will power of a limited resource. I think most of us try to use will power where self discipline is the more useful tool.

 

Self discipline is, I think, the skill of building positive habits, behaviours, and attitudes.

 

If I can create the habit that I floss before I brush every single time, soon I don't think about it. What used to be a choice (which makes it a question-should I floss tonight???) has become routine, so it takes no thought or willpower to execute. 

 

So the question becomes "how best do I make what were choices into habits?"

 

Simply put: if we know we 'should' and we also theoretically 'want to' or even possibly 'need to', why do we waste our resources revisiting these options?

[00000]

^^ that is some sage advice!

I've found with the not smoking, that 'just don't do it' can be as effective as it sounds stupid. Because really, that's all there is to giving up smoking: you just don't do it anymore.

With other things I tend to make all kinds of deals with myself, rationalising, bargaining, etc. but keeping it simple is really the way to go!

[Vector]

Here's a game to help with discipline and understanding habits. 

 

"Small Change Is Poison"

 

This one is like 'The floor is Hot Lava' with coins. It assumes you are paying cash for all purchases made in person, and if you don't then starting with "my Credit Cards are Poison" needs to be be step 1!

 

It's really simple. You are not allowed to keep coins. You can't have them in your pocket, purse, car, anywhere. So if you buy something and it costs $10.03 you are going to leave the 97 cents that comes back to you on the counter. Don't say anything, just leave it. It's OK to try and shop to minimize coins coming back, but one the transaction is rung up, you are done. So you will be 'losing' some money in this game. If you find coins in your pocket later (because you forgot and took them, or they were in your purse) drop them where you are. No exceptions. If your cashier tries to force you to take them, do it, but keep them in your hand and dump them as soon as you get outside, unless you actually at that moment see someone you can give them to who looks like they need them. But no hoarding till you see someone! That shit is toxic, keep away from it!

 

Assuming you are making several to many cash transactions a day on average, this should be continued for several weeks, until you realize that you are doing it automatically. Congratulations, you have created a habit! If you used to use you credit/debit card for everything, you have created two habits.