Dealing with alcoholics

[marionette]

For the most part I really lucked out in the In-Law lottery. I love my in-laws and enjoy their company. They quickly got over their initial judgement of me and have been nothing but accepting and encouraging since.

 

Except one for one thing. One major thing. They drink. A lot. As the child of an abusive alcoholic this is not okay.

 

So I try to limit it when I can. Obviously drink water, got to places/do activities where alcohol isn't a part of the landscape, only get limited quantities of alcohol for good dinners. It doesn't seem to help.

 

This weekend they came down. We had a bottle of white among the 4 of us when they got in. I had a couple bottles for nice dinners through the weekend that were on the counter but put aside. After my husband and I went to bed they opened one of the bottles, and drank the whole thing. They also finished 1/2 a bottle of whiskey.

 

Fast forward to the next day. We go out and have a great day wandering around an arboretum. Nice lunch out. They ask to stop at a liquor store on the way back. Being foolish I thought it was just to grab another bottle of white, since they drank the last bottle the night before. I should have known better. Vodka and tequila.

 

As soon as we got home the bottles were opened (6pm-ish) and they started drinking. I had a gin and tonic, minus the gin. Mother-in-Law had a vodka and tonic, minus the tonic. I cook dinner and the husband opens a bottle of the nice red wine to go with. The four of us drink that like civilized human beings. After, the M-i-L goes back to the vodka and the F-i-L goes to the tequila with ice. The total damage? 1/2 a bottle of vodka, 1/3rd a bottle of tequila.

 

I've talked to my husband about this in the past. He knows it really bothers me, but is non-confrontational about it. My sister-in-law is on the other coast and a bit preoccupied with toddler to really be able to help. I'm left feeling like this isn't my place to say anything but screaming inside that someone needs to do something. At this point I feel like I can only refuse to drink around them and hide all the adult beverages when they come visit. Start skipping family events (a major issue as they live 4 hours away so it isn't like not popping over for Sunday dinner, but would involve skipping holidays) and I don't know what. It feels very passive aggressive.

 

They don't know about my alcoholic parent (who has now been dry for 17 years) out of my respecting said parent's wishes in keeping quiet about it.

 

I'm just at my wit's end. This is clearly not okay behaviour and my hands are pretty tied. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm not going to end up spending the holidays alone on a beach in the Caribbean to make a point.

[stevembk]

I feel like they are going to do what they want to do. You cant stop them from drinking at their home. They should respect you for not drinking because of your reason but they have to want to stop. All you can do is be the rational one and make sure they arent driving drunk or getting themselves hurt. You really are causing more stress for yourself by getting upset at someone who doesnt want to change. Be the Designated Relative. Inform them why you dont get plastered, educate them on the affects of alcohol, warn them about the dangers of intoxications, but you cant stress over things that you cant control.

[Gilfren]

This is similar to making diet decisions. Your friends may gorge themselves on pizza and have it right in front of you, even if they know you're trying to limit it. As Steve said, you've gotta find a way to just say "that ain't me" and carry on. Granted, if they were destroying your place, or causing direct harm to you, that's a whole different story. Unfortunately, in this case, it's a situation of 'my in-laws drive me crazy' and that's kind of it.

 

You can confront them, but I'll tell you it'll be a can of worms. Particularly if they had "judgements" about you before as you mentioned.

These are the choices they make and frankly you aren't going to change that in them. :/

[maeggieakamegan]

I understand your take on the matter, but it's hard to say "don't get drunk at my house" while having alcohol in said house. Kinda like saying "don't have 5 cookies" while having a whole plate full of them.

 

Of course you should be concerned about their health and safety, but like you said, they live hours away and there was already past tension between you and them. The best you can do is show concern to your husband which you already have. 

 

And who knows, they may have just been wanting to blow off steam because they were on vacation.

 

And if you want there to more tension, skipping holidays due to "this behavior" will do the trick. All that's gonna do is put more pressure on your husband to chose between his wife and his parents. Don't do that to him, he doesn't deserve it.

[marionette]

Sadly it isn't isolated behaviour, but the normal. As in if we want to talk to them in the evening we have to call pretty much as soon as they get home or they won't remember it. I've been watching it get worse for over a decade now. Alcoholism isn't like a diet decision where you just get over it when someone stuffs their face with pizza, alcoholism is a disease.

 

As for tension, of course there was tension in the beginning. To be honest I was probably more than half crazy back then. When isn't there parental tension in the beginning?

 

Maybe I should have hid all the alcohol in my house when they were down instead of trying to plan for moderation and ways to not be in the house and around alcohol all day, but it is still avoidance of the issue.

 

I want to force the issue. I've never met an alcoholic that changed because they woke up one day with an epic hangover and suddenly were self aware. I just know that it is bad manners to do so, and that all my pleading with my husband over the years to say something has come to nothing. Its to the point where I can't be around them without my blood pressure spiking, and I've already told my husband that.

[I-Jo]

Having had to deal with an alkie best friend- I know it can be VERY taxing.

 

I agree with the above posters - you cannot make them do anything at their own home.  And really unless YOU are struggling with drinking issues- side stepping a family function because of alcohol being present isn't going to help or make a statement- it's just going to come off as holier than though judgmental and cause bad blood- esp if they know you drink.

 

Just keep doing what you do in moderation- I wouldn't have them over and keep alcohol in the house.  

 

They may have been drinking "on vacation" and not drink like that regularly.  Unless you are there for the daily drowning- you just don't know.

 

 

alcoholism is a disease.

 

 

 

ooohhh I"m not sure I can get on board with that- you aren't born with it- it isn't genetic.  There is no shot to cure it.  

It's a decision and an addiction- but I can't agree that it's a disease. 

 

I want to force the issue. I've never met an alcoholic that changed because they woke up one day with an epic hangover and suddenly were self aware. I just know that it is bad manners to do so

 

forcing the issue won't solve anything.  It happens- usually when they hit rock bottom.  You cannot make someone change.  My best friend I finally told- look- when you fix yourself- come back and talk to me- but I can't do it any more.  And I completely cut her off.  I read her emails- never responded- never answered a call.  And sure enough- she moved on- took a new job with the military after she got stationed somewhere else- and finally had to change.  

 

YOU CANNOT FIX THEM.   If it bothers you that much- then you need to tell them- then back out- knowing you could cause a giant riff between your husband and yourself... or him and his family.   which will lead to tension between you two. 

[UberTumbleweed]

Maybe I should have hid all the alcohol in my house when they were down instead of trying to plan for moderation and ways to not be in the house and around alcohol all day, but it is still avoidance of the issue.

If you don't want people to drink in your house, then absolutely: the ONLY reasonable decision is to not have alcohol in your house. If you don't want them drinking, then don't give them alcohol. If you believe alcoholism is a disease, then you must understand that an active alcoholic can't hang around booze and drink a little. Active alcoholics act like active alcoholics: they drink till they get drunk.

You offered them alcohol and you supported their quest to get more alcohol. If you don't like the result of your choices, make different choices next time. You're an independent adult.

 

I want to force the issue. I've never met an alcoholic that changed because they woke up one day with an epic hangover and suddenly were self aware. I just know that it is bad manners to do so, and that all my pleading with my husband over the years to say something has come to nothing. Its to the point where I can't be around them without my blood pressure spiking, and I've already told my husband that.

 

You want to force the issue.  Why?  What is your desired outcome?  What do you expect you'll get out of this?

 

Are you expecting they will magically change?  That won't happen.  You can't change them.  Forcing the issue is an action you take for you and it only changes YOU.

 

If you need to force the issue FOR YOU and your own mental health, then it's worth considering.  But you have to go into it with the knowledge that you are not forcing the issue for THEM.  That you will not be improving their lives or health by forcing the issue -- it's an action you take for you and you alone.

 

I forced the issue with an alcoholic aunt by cutting communication.  That was an action I took for me.  It changed nothing about her drinking, but that wasn't my purpose.  I am literally powerless to change her drinking.  That hurts more than I can put into words, but it's true.  I couldn't keep my mental health strong while interacting with her alcoholism, and there was no way to change her alcoholism -- just me and my actions towards it.

 

Alcoholic adults are still adults.  We cannot control them.  It might be the most painful truth I've ever faced.

[Gilfren]

As a person with a decorated past of  enjoyment of alcohol, I can tell you I've been on the recieving end of the person who thinks you drink too much. There was consistently 1 person who thought I drank too much. Without getting graphic, I'll tell you it didn't stay pretty. I viewed this person as jealous of a good time, a prude, and many other things that probably weren't true, but the fact that they felt the need to impose their beliefs on me really... frankly pissed me off. I never put myself in danger, or those around me, just got a bit rowdy and this wasn't their style. Which is fine. I can tell you as that person, you're best off to just remove yourself from the situation. Find a friend you can hang out with for the night to get away from it, go to your family's place, go somewhere.

 

It sounds like this is a lifestyle choice entirely and when you're in the minority, there isn't much changing the behavior, but you can very easily make your life worse by getting confrontational about a lifestyle choice

[marionette]

Maybe what this should be (other than me venting about my inlaws) is a conversation about when you should say something to someone about a substance abuse problem. We all know it sucks, and I can see from most replys that you all feel like I'm overstepping my bounds. So when does it become ok? Does it ever?

 

When someone injures themselves while under the influence?

When attempts at moderation fail?

When they become socially inaccessible due to side effects of addiction?

When they lie about or hide their addiction? When they stop bothering?

 

When their job becomes threatened by their addiction?

When that person encounters legal troubles? 

When their health begins to deteriorate?

When there are potential life threatening medical conditions due to their abuse?

 

I've lived through this before. It's awful on so many levels. 

 

When my parent was confronted they got worse before they got better. They were told to enter rehab/get clean or lose their job. For a while the abuse was worse. There were years before I could bring myself to talk to this person (even when clean) for the crap they put me through growing up. But in the long run, that confrontation - first from their friend and boss, then at home - was the best thing to ever happen to them. 

[Gilfren]

I would say that its not your family, so you stepping in probably wouldn't be well recieved and would likely get hurtful and ugly. Unless you're being direclty harmed, I think you have to let that family figure it out and remove yourself from the scenario.

[UberTumbleweed]

Telling someone with an illness that they need to change for your comfort is never okay.

 

Unless you're being harmed and you can't change the situation, I don't think it's especially helpful to butt in.  You can say, "I can't handle what is happening, and so I'm going to cut contact."  But beyond that, it's not normally helpful to involve yourself more.  If you can change the situation to something less harmful, do that and shut up until changing your own actions isn't enough anymore (eg: don't keep alcohol around alcoholics).

 

I cut contact with my aunt when she started driving drunk.  She knew most of the family didn't approve of her addiction for a very long time before that.  She knew she was hurting her liver, losing jobs, and losing friends because of it, and she knew we knew.  It didn't change anything, because that very rarely changes anything.

 

She's been in AA.  She's done inpatient rehab.  She's had two massive, nearly-fatal heart attack from her DTs.  She still drinks.  She knows we love her and want her to stop.  She still drinks.  Her behaviour was making me too anxious, so I walked away.

[I-Jo]

^^^

 

knows the things.  Fully support these statements!

 

 

I'd actually say most people actually know when they have a problem.  They won't admit it- and they will excuse it away- but most people know they have a problem.  You telling them isn't going to really help.

 

He did the same thing I did- I cut ties.  Eventually she came back around and we are bestest of friends- but it was a hard lesson- she valued drinking more than me... and it had to go.  She was killing me.  And I couldn't be around a cancer like that. 

[marionette]

If you can change the situation to something less harmful, do that and shut up until changing your own actions isn't enough anymore (eg: don't keep alcohol around alcoholics).

 

You are being awfully accusatory here, and I think that isn't quite what you are intending.

 

I acknowledged already that my attempt to at least moderate things while they were down failed. It is not as if I was waving alcohol under their noses, the liquor was all in the back of the china cabinet, the wine was put aside on the counter out of the way. When they arrived my husband and I were having a glass and that one bottle was on the island. No red solo cups, no beer pong table, no obvious "here is all the booze!" signs, everything was put away. As someone who does not open other people's cabinets or take things off their counters it didn't occur to me that anyone would do that in my house.

 

I'm sorry that your aunt is not responding to family pressure, however it isn't "butting in" when they are my family too. It drives me nuts, I admit that. It drives me nuts because people I care about are hurting themselves, endangering others and basically committing slow suicide. If you can't tell loved ones that what they are doing is hurtful to themselves and others then what are you to do?

[Gilfren]

If you're feeling this intensely (and don't be offended, but you seem sensitive as well) about it, I think you need to keep it a conversation with you & your boyfriend, and potentially a professional 3rd. There are a lot of factors here. Not that you're offering booze, but if it's there and your boyfriend is saying "have at it" there's some hypocrisy there. It suggests maybe he doesn't see it as a problem. If you're the only one saying it's a problem, you have a big battle coming.

[UberTumbleweed]

You are being awfully accusatory here, and I think that isn't quite what you are intending.

 

I acknowledged already that my attempt to at least moderate things while they were down failed. It is not as if I was waving alcohol under their noses, the liquor was all in the back of the china cabinet, the wine was put aside on the counter out of the way. When they arrived my husband and I were having a glass and that one bottle was on the island. No red solo cups, no beer pong table, no obvious "here is all the booze!" signs, everything was put away. As someone who does not open other people's cabinets or take things off their counters it didn't occur to me that anyone would do that in my house.

 

I'm sorry that your aunt is not responding to family pressure, however it isn't "butting in" when they are my family too. It drives me nuts, I admit that. It drives me nuts because people I care about are hurting themselves, endangering others and basically committing slow suicide. If you can't tell loved ones that what they are doing is hurtful to themselves and others then what are you to do?

I'm being blunt, because I'm blunt person, but I'm not accusing you of anything.

 

Every alcoholic I've spoken to would say that openly having alcohol in the house and supporting their desire to purchase of more IS putting alcohol in the face of an active (ie, not yet sober) alcoholic.  (Even some sober alcoholics struggle or fail to stay sober in such circumstances.)  If you think they're just heavy drinkers, then they were being assfedoras by taking it.  But if you think they have an illness, it becomes a totally different story, where the only reasonable way to change the story is to not have alcohol around the alcoholics.

 

I told you about my aunt because I wanted you to know that I'm not just saying these things "cuz I can" or "because it's just the internet".  I'm telling you them because they are the hardest most painful truths I've ever had to learn, and I did learn them firsthand.

What can you do when a family member is ill and not changing that?

 

You can walk away and tell them why, and come back when they're ready to change.

 

Or you can stay and continue to deal with the same old stuff hurting you the same old ways until they're ready to change.

 

Either way, telling them it's a problem more than once just creates drama and pain, because mentioning it again won't change anything that didn't change the first time.

[I-Jo]

^^ again- agree.

 

I had a guy take a bottle out of my house when I wasn't even there. 

 

if they are alcoholics- they are going to drink it- regardless of if they have to go hunting for it- it's in the house- that means it's fair game.

 

Make a point to not have alcohol in the house at all.  or put it in your bed room.  

 

if you truly believe they are alcoholics- even having the bottle open when they arrived indicated that drinking was acceptable  they don't do "moderation"  they don't know how to leave alcohol there- or put the cork back in- they drink it till it's done. that's the way it happens. 

[Vintage]

I think you've acknowledged that past attempts to encourage moderate drinking didn't work and there's no need to say it again. Obviously you're aware now that if there's an opportunity to drink, they're going to take it.

 

So time to move on to the future... 

 

Your question of when/how to say something when a loved one is doing something that could harm themselves and others is a good one. The "you can't make them change" adage is true. They'll have to do that themselves. But that doesn't necessarily mean you have to act like everything's ok. So my suggestions would be:

 

1. Learn from this experience and don't provide any more alcohol. Next time they come to visit, put it somewhere it absolutely won't be found, give it to a friend, whatever. And I think you're absolutely within your rights to ask that no one brings any into your home. This might involve enlisting your husband's support and having a very calm, non-blaming conversation if they ask to make a stop at a liquor store or pull a bottle out of their suitcase. It's not about fixing them or anything they've done wrong, this is a choice you're making for you and your home. On the other hand, I think if you're in someone else's home, you may have to grit your teeth and deal with it, at least as long as the behavior isn't directly affecting you. This isn't a friend or extended family, this is your husband's mom and dad, he shouldn't have to choose between his parents and his wife if it's at all possible to avoid. From your description it doesn't sound like you've gotten to the point that you or he should have to make that choice. You shouldn't put up with physical or emotional abuse or anything that endangers you (refusing to get in the car with a drunk driver = absolutely reasonable), but you're also going to have to separate out their actions from your baggage. 

 

2. As far as speaking up about the problem, I think you're within your rights to do it if you're doing it because you're worried about them. Be loving and supportive, tell them what you've seen (state facts in a neutral way) and why it concerns you, and gently let them know that you care about them and you're there if they ever want to make a change. I'm sure you know this being the child of a recovering alcoholic, but don't let yourself get absorbed into fixing them, know what you're willing and not willing to do to help, and look out for your own well-being. Do your best to get your husband in on this. He may just not want to be the one to speak up, but if he's actively against you saying anything, you'll need to reconsider I think.

 

Good luck.

[CharlieBoston]

I hear you on this. I've got a similar background/situation to this. My FIL drinks basically all the time. He is never without a can of beer during the week and he ups his intake on the weekends. This became an issue when my wife and I had a baby and he volunteered to retire from his job so he could babysit for us when my wife went back to work.

 

The first thing I said to my wife when we were alone after he volunteered was that if he wants to do this for us, he absolutely canNOT drink when he's taking care of our kid (now kids). She knows how I feel about alcoholism, and she recognizes that her dad as being one. Fortunately she absolutely agreed and my MIL also agreed and she has a degree of influence over him, so we were fortunate in that respect and he doesn't drink while the kids are in his care. I'm generally easy going, but I don't want to find out how I'd react if I ever found out he drank while "on the job," especially as he likes to take them for car rides from time to time.

 

For your situation, I believe honesty is the best policy. They should know that overdoing it with the drinking really bothers you. Staying silent about it and letting it fester will only make you resent them, and it's not fair to resent them if they don't know their excessive drinking is bothering you.

[Cr33g]

That sounds very difficult... sorry to hear about that, marionette. :/

 

I have a friend who drinks... a lot. He drinks several nights throughout the week, he drinks to the point where he passes out and he won't remember anything. He goes through stages of being drunk. Friendly tipsy, hilariously funny drunk, moody drunk, aggressive drunk and then he'll try to get into a fight with anything that moves.

 

I've known him for about seven years now and because of all that drinking he has put on a seriously alarming amount of weight. My friends and I have all tried talking to him, not at the same time, not making an intervention but we have tried to have serious conversations with him about what he's doing, what he could do etc. He's actually very talented at art stuff, especially wood work (he made a WICKED Buster Sword replica for my mate) but he doesn't care, or he claims not to anyway. He won't listen to us. Some of my friends have given up on him.

 

marionette as people have already suggested - and I know it's easier said than done, but maybe you should talk to your husband's family about their drinking and that it bothers you. If you remain silent about it, it could just build up and up and up, bottled up inside you, which may cause you to really resent your in-law's and maybe even have an outburst at them. It does sound difficult but all you can do is try.

[Sleepy]

Hey there. A couple of things I want to clarify in general (I skimmed the thread so may be repeating stuff). First off, alcoholism IS a disease, just like a heroin or other drug addiction. It is classified as a disease because it *litterally and physically* changes the way the brain works. Once you get addicted to any substance, it is impossible to quit (those who do "quit" their drug of choice without a proper program will either return to it in X months or years, or use something else to regulate their brains, such as another drug, abusive relationships, etc.

So what can YOU do to protect yourself? When dealing with ANY kind of addiction, YOU need a support group who can preserve your mental wellbeing. It is impossible to get an addict to stop their behavior on your own, as you will get 'sucked up' in their dance.
Solution: Go to al-anon. Get a sponsor and he/she will tell you what you need to do to 1)protect yourself, 2)the things that may help the addicted to seek sobriety.

I can explain more if you like, but this advice is the kind you will get from top doctors who deal with addiction. I sincerely hope you get the support you need to deal with this.