Unsupportive Spouses/Partners/Family Members

[Wolfman]

I made the switch to Archevore/Primal/Paleo-esque eating several months ago, and I'm really responding well to it. I added weight training back into my life two months ago and, once again, I'm really responding well/loving it. I'm gaining some muscle, losing some fat, and still able stuff my face when I want to (Can I get a "Woot! Woot!" for intermittent fasting?!?!). All awesome.

Not-so-awesome is having to deal with a wife who is completely hung up on dieting and training according to common wisdom (low fat, high carb, spot training, too much weight lifting makes you "bulky", etc.). She's not making great gains, but doesn't want to hear any advice from me because I'm so easily swayed by fads (in reference to my new eating and training habits). Meanwhile, I'm making great progress and can't (a) talk about it with her because it makes her feel bad, and ( any improvements she notices she chalks up to my being male and it being easier for me.

I'm frustrated on two levels: (1) I'm working really hard and am feeling like that's not being acknowledged at all, and (2) she's not happy or healthy or succeeding and I hurt for her.

Any advice on dealing with a not-so-supportive spouse?

[theanne]

I can't give advice as far as being in the same situation but here's some of my thoughts...

Patience will probably play a huge role for this. If you can stick to your "fad" and continue seeing results she will hopefully see that it's not just a stupid craze.

Another thought to help her see where you're coming from is this: tell her you've heard her concerns about your "fad", and while you still believe in it you will feel better if she can do some research on it and do the reading to see what she thinks of it and give you a well-researched opinion. Let her know you'd like to be able to take her input but until she is open enough to do the proper dues in research and such that you won't be able to take her ideas seriously. It's always rude to "knock it before you try it" (or even properly learn about it)!

The thing that worked for me to try paleo/primal out was "just do it for a month" and then decide from there whether it's for me. Putting aside conventional wisdom is hard! But you can't argue with health and results when you're the one experiencing it.

Ask her to meet you halfway: experiment with your methods as close as possible for one month and if she hates it then she can keep hating it. Express that you'd like to be a support for her and also are hoping for her support as well and this would be a great way to do that because even if she DOESN'T like it, she will have shown she is willing to open up to your new ideas and at least can understand what you're doing as you continue to follow your new habits.

[Kain]

As you know, you being "right" isn't worth the fight. Instead, wait till you catch her appreciating your hard work (ala touch, gawking, etc) and maybe make a remark about how you wish you would have started on the primal path a long time ago.

Honestly though, just like wearing vibrams, the last step before turning is sheer ridicule. Try showing her all the success stories on Mark's Daily Apple. I know seeing some of those and associating with them even further my mentality.

Here is another fun thing to do, next time you are at the store, noticed who is buying what and what the people look like who are buying them. You know, the huge family where their 10 year old kid looks like he has diabetes? Well, they have 3 cases of soda and huge boxes of cereal in their cart, etc. etc.

Good luck, don't get too upset with yourself as you can't control how she thinks or feels, even if she is "wrong".

[Gowaduv]

I had a rant from one "married guy who is on paleo while the wife is on any other program" to another, but deleted it because it started to sound a little misogynistic. Frankly, if your wife was not supportive, you would not be eating paleo-esque, she'd be berating you to eat whateverthehell she put in front of you. Suffice to say, men have complained about their wives not listening to them since the dawn of time. Get a friend of hers to try paleo- the friend will lose a dress size in two weeks, and next thing you know you're wife will buy a chest freezer and half a cow- and you're only eating red meat from now on Buster!

In essence you have to do this for you, and can't feel guilty because she's not following along. Bear in mind you made a conscious decision to look outside of the mainstream for dieting information. It's like the Matrix- not everyone is ready to be detached from the machine. There is an enormous propaganda machine at work designed to keep us eating the foods that our gov't subsidizes, grains in particular. The newest incarnation should be released today, further reinforcing grains and veggies, demonizing fat and protein, and hinting that too much fruit and dairy are probably not good for us.

It might help to take periodic "progress pictures" so in a few months you can have the folder open on your computer, show them to your wife and say "wow, I'm really impressed with how far I've come on this paleo diet." Maybe you can momopolize the TV for a couple of hours- The documentary "Fat Head" does a really good job of discussing how we metabolize fats, and why carbs should be eaten sparingly. It was streaming on Netflix for a while, and is available on DVD.

[EDIT] To springboard off of Kain: mark's daily apple is probably one of the more accessible and has a lot of success stories, so does freetheanimal.com (strong language) with pictures for most of the stories, and googling "paleo blog success stories" will bring up a lot of hits.

Last thought: we're all here as your cheering section. Not everyone here is paleo, but we all root for successes and offer support during difficulties. Heck, I think vegetarianism is tantamount to voluntarily knocking yourself down a link on the food chain, but I still give props to the vegans (yes, vegans!) who come here to post their successes, and I've offered encouragement when they're not doing as well as they like. I know I'm not the only one because I've seen the support from the folks around here.

Hang in there!

[Wolfman]

@theanne Having her do some research is a great idea. I think she thinks I'm making up a lot of what I say, so having her look into it herself and make her own decisions sounds perfect. I'm not sure that she'll actually be that motivated, BUT at least that gives me a rebuttal when she starts talking about my "fads"!

@kain Showing her results pages is such a great idea! I'll have to dig up some good examples of women who've succeeded by eating primal and lifting heavy! That nips the "You're just getting good results because you're a dude" argument right in the bud!

@gowaduv Thank you for calling it like you see it. It's true. If my wife were truly unsupportive, I'd still be eating pasta and skipping the gym in the mornings. I needed to hear that. My first round of progress pictures are done (unfortunately I didn't take them at the beginning of my journey, but better late than never!), I can't wait to show 'em off in 6 weeks. Thanks, Dude.

[Gowaduv]

If you're gonna show your wife pics of hot chicks who probably eat paleo, I would like to suggest wildgorillaman.blogspot.com (Team Gorilla Crossfit). Not a lot of before and after pics, but yowza!

[Crooked]

I was incredibly excited to see this topic, as I've been having a similar issue. I live at home (saving rent for law school, woo!). My dad, one (of two) younger brother and I are paleo/primal (brother is strict paleo due to Crohn's, but Dad and I eat Greek yogurt and he eats cheese). Brother does BJJ, Dad does some basic strength training, and I'm newly into Crossfit. My mom is incredibly resistant to pretty much everything that we're enthusiastic about when it comes to diet and exercise. She is overweight and spends probably an hour on the elliptical per day, but her issue is diet and she knows it. Yet she's totally against doing things that might be uncomfortable for her. She doesn't cook and won't learn; she gets mad that paleo foods that she "can't eat" fill up the fridge, even though she mostly eats take-out and snack food that goes in the pantry, not the fridge; and there are a limited number of non-crappy foods that she is willing to eat. She is unhappy with her size (among other things) and wants to lose weight, but I think she sees our methods as too extreme or not worth the effort. I honestly think she would be a million times happier if she could drop fat, and I think her diet of hundred-calorie packs, Pirate's Booty, cereal and occasional salads is not going to get her there. Any suggestions?

[Brometheus]

I agree with @Gowaduv, the success stories are the thing that usually convince people. This one is huge for women.

What's crazy about that story is that's just 5 weeks...damn.

But in the meantime, we'll be here to commiserate about drinking heavy whipping cream and eating steak.

[Wolfman]

Not to sound like a total "dude" BUT side benefit of finding success stories for my wife... a lot of pics of fit women to check out. Solely for research, of course...

[Wolfman]

One thing that I've discovered, through my own experience and watching my wife, food is a drug. Like any drug, some people get addicted. Like any addiction, it often takes a person "hitting rock bottom" before they are willing to tackle their addiction. Sometimes that rock bottom is as simple as embarrassment (I got schooled by my sister-in-law in a climbing contest and decided enough was enough), sometimes it takes something a lot more drastic (heart attack, diabetes, death of a family member), and sometimes a person never finds that thing that makes it all "click" for them. It's unfortunate, but we can't fix other peoples problems no matter how much we want to. I think the only thing we can do is encourage good behaviors, discourage bad ones, offer advice and support, and sit back and let them make their own choices.

That's not to say, however, that you can't sneakily throw out the Pirate's Booty when she's not looking...

Also, one thing I'm pondering trying with my wife is offering to cook meals for a month with the condition that she has to eat what I've scheduled/made and nothing else. If I take out the work component, the attractiveness of a free month of no cooking might be enough to get her out of her lifestyle box a bit. I have no doubt that once I get her eating right she'll be hooked by her results (or at least a little more willing to accept that maybe I do know what I'm talking about!). The problem being, of course, that I'm a new cook (literally... I learned so that I could eat primal) and I'm a little worried that my lack of skill will translate to less than acceptable food (I'm not picky and will eat my failed experiments in the kitchen... her, not so much!).

I was incredibly excited to see this topic, as I've been having a similar issue. I live at home (saving rent for law school, woo!). My dad, one (of two) younger brother and I are paleo/primal (brother is strict paleo due to Crohn's, but Dad and I eat Greek yogurt and he eats cheese). Brother does BJJ, Dad does some basic strength training, and I'm newly into Crossfit. My mom is incredibly resistant to pretty much everything that we're enthusiastic about when it comes to diet and exercise. She is overweight and spends probably an hour on the elliptical per day, but her issue is diet and she knows it. Yet she's totally against doing things that might be uncomfortable for her. She doesn't cook and won't learn; she gets mad that paleo foods that she "can't eat" fill up the fridge, even though she mostly eats take-out and snack food that goes in the pantry, not the fridge; and there are a limited number of non-crappy foods that she is willing to eat. She is unhappy with her size (among other things) and wants to lose weight, but I think she sees our methods as too extreme or not worth the effort. I honestly think she would be a million times happier if she could drop fat, and I think her diet of hundred-calorie packs, Pirate's Booty, cereal and occasional salads is not going to get her there. Any suggestions?

[lyranedara]

As a woman, I can say I'd probably be willing to do anything for my husband if he offered to cook for me for a whole month, lol. My husband is also not particularly supportive of my recent diet change, or my weight-loss efforts at all. I gave up talking to him about it a while ago, other than to occasionally mention how much weight I've lost. I recently hit 40lbs gone, and he responded flatly with, "That's good." That was the extent of the conversation. He's also not particularly happy about the workouts that I do either. He's of the mindset that chronic cardio is all that people need to do to get in shape, and that calories are calories. He's currently training for a triathlon without incorporating any strength training and eating a cupful of chocolate chips after dinner every night and donuts on the weekends. Meanwhile, I've been doing mostly bodyweight training while jumping rope as my cardio, and I'm constantly seeing strength gains. He thinks I'm going to look like some kind of bodybuilder or something. I've tried to tell him it's impossible, considering I don't take drugs, and only get my protein from real food. I've even showed him videos of Neghar Fonooni, who's about my height, and she's super strong, without looking like a man.

Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your post. I guess I've just been needing to vent about this for a few months, lol. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully your wife will be open to listening to you soon. I know I appreciate direct, and honest conversations with my husband when he comes to me.

[Gowaduv]

Not to sound like a total "dude" BUT side benefit of finding success stories for my wife... a lot of pics of fit women to check out. Solely for research, of course...

Research is key!!!

Also: I have a friend whose husband had a heart attack about a year ago, and my sis-in-law runs the diabetes center at the hospital she works at. I'm constantly amazed how resistant people are to changing their diets. Let's not even go so far as to say these folks should go paleo or anything radical like that, but how about just cutting out soda (regular and diet). I think 99% of them would rather give me an arm or leg (which with diabetes is sometimes the choice they're actually making- give up the sugared shit, or lose a limb).

Cooking isn't rocket surgery (baking however is a whole 'nother story). At first I would recommend staying away from steaks that have the bone in because the bone acts as a heat sink, and the meat will get progressively more raw as you move toward the bone. Porkchops tend to have bones that are less dense, so I don't usually run into doneness problems with chops. For all meat: let it come to room temp before cooking. Salt and pepper (generously with both, or use a rub that you like) before cooking. Take it off just a little before you think it's done becasue it will continue to cook toward the middle for a few minutes. If you're not sure about your cook times, invest in a digital meat thermometer and learn the different donenesses for each temp. Keep the skinny parts away from the heat source, as much as possible.

In fact, if you bring the steaks, I have the charcoal and I'll put on a little clinic on my patio

[theanne]

Cooking isn't rocket surgery (baking however is a whole 'nother story). At first I would recommend staying away from steaks that have the bone in because the bone acts as a heat sink, and the meat will get progressively more raw as you move toward the bone. Porkchops tend to have bones that are less dense, so I don't usually run into doneness problems with chops. For all meat: let it come to room temp before cooking. Salt and pepper (generously with both, or use a rub that you like) before cooking. Take it off just a little before you think it's done becasue it will continue to cook toward the middle for a few minutes. If you're not sure about your cook times, invest in a digital meat thermometer and learn the different donenesses for each temp. Keep the skinny parts away from the heat source, as much as possible.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-cook-the-perfect-steak/

[Seabright]

Just wanted to chime in on this one, you know, as a woman (and I do mean, double-you oh em eh en). Oh, yeah, I am strictly paleo, do body weight strength training, bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never no never let you forget you're a...well, you get it.

I concur with the offering to do all the cooking idea. I would advise, though, to make lots and lots of whatever it is you are cooking, or she will still miss the grains / dairy. The idea to help someone transition is to never let them feel hungry. Ever. Massive amounts of scrambled eggs and veges in the a.m. with bacon (or turkey or chicken-apple sausages), gigantic salads with tons and tons of roast turkey for lunch, nuts and fruit snacks for days, gigantic turkey burgers (she'll think more 'healthful' than beef) with mountains of broccoli, bell peppers and onions. These are three ideas that are really easy for the men-folk to get the hang of (my husband can now cook these with his eyes closed), and the gigantic amounts of everything will forestall the 'it's not enough' anti-paleo talk you might encounter.

Feel free to share my story with her: almost 50, and switching to paleo-eating and doing body weight workouts took me from 23.4% body fat to 19.4% in 6 weeks, along with dropping close to 2" off of my hips. Along with that, I finally shook a chronic cough I've had for a couple of years.

And I can finally wear that little black number with pride. ;-)

[67alecto]

Hey everyone - just to play the devil's advocate...paleo is not the be-all, end-all of diet. The more you force something into someone's face, the more likely they are to pull back.

Personally, I don't believe that it's simply paleo that suddenly makes people healthier....it's a sudden focus on the what the hell you are putting in your body. For whatever reason...you've been eating too much, the wrong things, missing nutrients, whatever. Any change in diet that forces you to examine what you eat is a good thing.

My advice, is to let her find her own path. Set an example, but don't shove it in her face. The fact that you are currently making good gains while she isn't making as big of ones is not a result solely of paleo. There are a hundred other factors that are playing a part. If you value your relationship, recognize that there is give and take.

[Crooked]

Seabright, thank you SO much for sharing these tips and also your story. I'm dealing with a mother, not a spouse, but I do think that her anti-cooking attitude has a LOT to do with not wanting to change her diet. I'll talk to my mom and see if my providing (tons of) healthy food would be an acceptable arrangement for her. She's a bit older than you, but only by a few years, and sometimes I think she thinks that it's too late to change anything.

[Crooked]

Hey everyone - just to play the devil's advocate...paleo is not the be-all, end-all of diet. The more you force something into someone's face, the more likely they are to pull back.

I completely agree with this assessment. Paleo is not for everyone and trying to force it on people is just going to piss said people off. I do think that a more protein- and vegetable-centered diet is the way for my mom to go, and she seems to agree with this but be unwilling to give it a shot.

[Wolfman]

Hey everyone - just to play the devil's advocate...paleo is not the be-all, end-all of diet. The more you force something into someone's face, the more likely they are to pull back.

Personally, I don't believe that it's simply paleo that suddenly makes people healthier....it's a sudden focus on the what the hell you are putting in your body. For whatever reason...you've been eating too much, the wrong things, missing nutrients, whatever. Any change in diet that forces you to examine what you eat is a good thing.

My advice, is to let her find her own path. Set an example, but don't shove it in her face. The fact that you are currently making good gains while she isn't making as big of ones is not a result solely of paleo. There are a hundred other factors that are playing a part. If you value your relationship, recognize that there is give and take.

Incredibly valid points. This has actually been my strategy up until now. She's doing her thing and I'm doing mine. She was really frustrated with me in the beginning because she was still the chef in the family and the way I wanted to eat severely limited her in the kitchen. So I cook for myself now and she cooks for herself. We even have different shelves in the fridge. We have to be conscious that our schedules match up so that we still have meal time together, but it works pretty well.

She's had great success on Weight Watchers in the past (which I failed miserably at), and I'd be happy if she went back to that.

I guess my problem has been watching her fail and fail and fail. It's painful to watch. She's half of me and when she feels horrible about herself I hurt for her.

[Wolfman]

I concur with the offering to do all the cooking idea. I would advise, though, to make lots and lots of whatever it is you are cooking, or she will still miss the grains / dairy. The idea to help someone transition is to never let them feel hungry. Ever. Massive amounts of scrambled eggs and veges in the a.m. with bacon (or turkey or chicken-apple sausages), gigantic salads with tons and tons of roast turkey for lunch, nuts and fruit snacks for days, gigantic turkey burgers (she'll think more 'healthful' than beef) with mountains of broccoli, bell peppers and onions. These are three ideas that are really easy for the men-folk to get the hang of (my husband can now cook these with his eyes closed), and the gigantic amounts of everything will forestall the 'it's not enough' anti-paleo talk you might encounter.

Great advice!! Thanks!

And I can finally wear that little black number with pride. ;-)

Haha! Love it!!!

[JaysFreaky]

I think the biggest realization to her is simply going to be your results.

Back when I started my change in November, I was constantly ridiculed by my friends and family for giving up drinking and eating healthier. Now that I've lost a majority of my weight and gained some muscle, they complement me all the time and start coming to me for advice.

So my opinion is, just keep doing what you're doing and she'll eventually see for herself.

[Junglizer]

I think I'm going to go ahead and slap this in here, although it doesn't entirely relate to the topic of convincing your SO, it might shed some informative light on how to go about it.

I've always been a pretty skinny dude, so I never really put much thought into fitness/diet/exercise. But just recently I started to. I'm basically a network admin/network programmer. That was part of what got me interested, I knew that if I didn't do something I'd end up like everyone else, desk chair 8-5, the usual, not really something that's exciting or fun to look forward too. I started by reading about Steve's epic quest on Gizmodo, and then they also had excerpts of Tim Ferriss' book, the 4Hr Body. I found it quite interesting. I would say that I already had a pretty healthy diet, stemming mostly from my joy of cooking, but also my mother being very into the organic/local food movement, and my father being a celiac (i.e. allergic to gluten).

Anyways, back story aside, one of the main things that I found really gave me that "push" to get involved was knowledge/logic. Like I mentioned I am basically a programmer by trade, and boolean logic is a heavy part of that. "If you do A, B happens." etc... But this also fits my personality. I tend to research pretty much every topic before I make a decision. That's just how I work (maybe that's why I don't hate my programming job even though I never dreamed I'd be in one out of school!). One of the things that sort of naturally pulled me to both the writing of Steve & Tim is the raw honesty of both. They pretty much flat out say "This is not the end all be all. Many methods work, I have just found that (for me) this method works best." That honesty is quite refreshing, it is rare to get that sort of attitude in any industry. Just look at Steve's money back guarantee. He's trying to help you find something that works for you, not just give back your cash. This was one solid push for me. If these individuals are ready, willing, and able to stake their careers on the line with such statements, they probably have something to back it up with that isn't just talk.

The second, like I mentioned was logic. This really where I got my momentum, the 4 hour body. I will continue to push it as an interesting book and a solid read even if you do not do ANYTHING that he mentions in it. It's plain and simple, it's the science of HOW YOUR BODY WORKS. "Knowledge is power!" right? and/or "Knowing is half the battle!" This just make sense. The more you know, the more you can make an informed decision. The more I learned and understood about the human body, and how it processes food and turns carbs into sugars which it uses for energy (which in excess gets quickly turned into fat), the more some simple changes (like the Paleo diet) just made sense. Likewise, this is why strength training is so beneficial. Just lifting the weights (or yourself in my case) is burning energy, but also rebuilding the muscles does the same. Eat tons of calories and protein while doing this, or you'll never increase in size. You'll have a deficit of intake vs. loss from training b/c your body requires energy and protein just to rebuild the muscle mass and you need more than breaking even to make gains. Understanding how the body reacts to strength training, versus cardio, versus, HIIT. Very interesting, although I would hardly call myself an expert.

I really find that Steve hits home the points about strength/weight training. Go to a gym. Look for the free weights (if you can find them.) We are being sold a lifestyle, and it's like every other diet/fad/workout/total gym. It's a cop out. It's easy. Bring up weight to absolutely anyone, and I'm sure you'll be quoted that "muscle weighs more than fat." Yes. It does. This is a known scientific fact. So why are you using the lb/kgs on your scale as your sole measurement system to track your weight loss? That's completely crazy! (Unless you're doing diet only, or no strength workouts). Likewise, why are there TVs in fitness centers. I speak with my friends and they're like "Yeah I like to ride the bike or use the elpitical. Watched the newest episode of Top Gear." What!? This coming from my friend that discounted strength training for weight loss. It blows my mind, I have a pull up bar, and a floor mat in my apartment. Yet during my 4 set body weight workout I can push my body so far that I cannot focus on anything other than counting the number of reps, and yet I feel amazing when I'm done. If you can focus on anything other than your workout. You. Are. Doing. It. Wrong.

So... That got a bit off topic with my ranting and raving. But in summary, I guess, all I can really say is to research it and look at the big picture. There are plenty of fad diets and workouts (P90X and Atkins come to mind), but you cannot sustain them.

There is no finish line. This is about living your life.

[bananandrea]

Ok. At first I wasn't sure what to say here... But as a previously unsupportive significant other that got talked into it... well I thought I should say SOMETHING... And well. Junglizer kind of opened the door for me. Literally. He is the one that got me started with this. He bought me the 4-hour body for Christmas. And I didn't read it. For a long time. But he started changing his diet, and since I was spending so much time with him and eating meals with him... I started eating healthier. And he told me all the information that he mentioned up here.

BUT! I think the most important thing, is that I wasn't willing to change. Even though I knew all the information. But when shit went down and we separated... I realized that I needed to do things different. And that's when I took to heart all that he told me... started to apply it and changed my life. I had to realize that it was the best path and that it would be good for ME.

I think what I am trying to say is right now all you can do is be patient with her. Show her the results. Tell her the information. Keep talking to her about it... but it's something she is going to have to do/want on her own. And she probably will once she sees how much it's working for you!

.

I hope that helps and I didn't just ramble... I tend to do that :/

[Wolfman]

You didn't just ramble, bananandrea! Your response is very helpful, thank you!

[Timmy M]

i understand what you all mean, at first my parents wondered what the hell i was doing (was always the sugar junkie of the family till about 17) my mums gon on the 'Dukan Diet' which is kinda half atkins half paleo and has worked pretty good for her (alternate days of protein only and protein and veg only) and my dad was really annoyed with me not eating things like pasta and rice because he used to put masses of it on everyones plate but now that he's got used to me doing it and my mums started (and probably noticed the results) he's not too fussed about it, it might eventually rub off on him and he has said he needs to do some sort of exercise (desk job) but we'll have to see hopefully he'll come round

[Oogiem]

Cooking isn't rocket surgery (baking however is a whole 'nother story).

Might I suggest 3 investments: 1. a kick ass Thermopen digital Termometer, love the tech and yes I know they are a huge $ investment but oh so worth it ;-) 2. America's Test Kitchen cookbooks. You may disagree with what they are aiming for, but if you follow their recipes exactly you will get results that are almost exactly the same as theirs and then you can use that as a springboard to branch off to what you like. 3. Penzey's spices. Mail order high quality good prices and always fresh. Best spices in the world!

I only learned to cook about 12 years ago and I'm a bit older than Seabright.