Girl problem(looking for mostly guy opinions but other girls are welcome.)

[Mrgso]

Sorry if this sounds super middle school but it's a serious self-esteem related issue and you guys are my trusted community of choice. xP

So I'm a 20 year old girl, 21 in April and I have never had a boyfriend. Never kissed, never held hands, DEFINITELY never had sex. Dating just seems so unrealistic for me and I don't understand what I'm doing wrong.  All I've ever done is be myself but in all this time noone has even noticed me for anything more than a friend, never mind got up the courage to act on it. Should I put myself out there more or just wait.(kindof sick of waiting.) Anywhere, here's a sort of bio type thing to give you all an idea of who I am. What I'm asking is if you ran into me, what would you think? I would never change who I am personally but maybe I do need to dress up a little more/put myself out there if I'm going to get anywhere. 

 

I'm 20 years old. I'm a music education major, I love music and I love kids. But I'm all nerdy and I prefer classical music. Like I honestly don't know most of the pop artists. I occasionally enjoy jazzy stuff but wouldn't be able to name anything. I also love christian music. Not like hymns and stuff(though they are often pretty.) But the newer stuff, songs of encouragement that are much needed in the stress of life. Christianity's a huge part of my life but I generally don't advertise it do to the rep.Christians have right now. Honestly I don't even really relate to "Christians" but rather to the original idea of what it meant to be Christian or "Christ-like." Basically, I believe everyone is important and has a purpose in life. No matter how bad stuff is there's some hope somewhere and we should all love and encourage each other. Everyone deserves love, don't care who you are or what you've done. But yeah, that part of me doesn't get out much.

 

Another aspect of my personality that is kindof hidden is that I LOVE adventure! I wish I could participate in things like ninja warrior, parkour, larping, etc. but am not yet at a point where my body can physically handle it. People actually were shocked when they found out I played and loved humans vs. zombies. The action was fantastic but it was apparently out of character for me.(huh, whatda they know.) I also love hiking and really want to travel the world someday too. 

 

For the people that don't know me too well...

I'm pretty shy around people I'm not fully 100% comfortable with. I basically don't talk unless I feel the need to include my input. I often hear the question "Hey where's Meghan?" and I'm just like...guys...seriously? I'm right here! D: (In my head of course.) When I do talk I'd consider myself a pretty nice/easygoing person. I like helping. Making others happy makes me happy. Most of the time if I'm upset I'll just say something like "Nah it's ok." Or just ignore the situation. It takes A LOT to actually get me angry. Every once in a while I'll throw in my 2cents in random conversation but most of the time I'm more of a listener. I'm honestly not really sure how much people notice me. This is all I know about the outside perspective. 

 

For the few that I am close to...

Yeah I'm freakin insane. xP We've decided together(my friends and I) that I'm actually a 5 year old. I find joy in coloring, playing in playgrounds, new things(especially shiny ones) oh and whining. But not any whining. I mean I feel the need to tell my roommate that I'm hungry,tired, "have to potty", want a pony, whatever else that comes to mind whenever it does. (It's ok she loves me. )

 

Personal interests include Facebook, Tumblr, reading adventure style books(the whole real life/coming of age theme isn't really my thing.), minecraft, WoW(trial edition cuz im poor),Lord of the Rings, Sherlock(BBC), Avengers...all of them...especially captain america, and lots of other things I'm forgetting. Oh, I play mellophone in the marching band and french horn for my major.

 

Appearance: Generally I don't care much about my appearance or at least that's what I tell myself. I do enjoy looking pretty but it just doesn't seem worth the time/effort/pain. I'm a t-shirt and jeans kinda gal. I'm also not super fit(working on it.) and just happen to have tiny boobs for my size but honestly in my opinion that shouldn't have to matter. I personally feel good about myself, why change? The easiest way to describe my appearance would be to just show you. So here, have some pics.

 

Me just on any random given day:

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1150347_10201342020606884_1338558391_n.jpg

 

At my best: (Senior pic. high school)https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/157007_1664014074362_866346_n.jpg

 

 

Aaand what could probably considered my worst allowed in public.(This was taken at the NYC wax museum. I had just finished marching in the Macy's thanksgiving day parade AND I was pretty sick too(being out in 30 degree weather at 3am was not helpful.)

 https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1426559_10202061868162393_1286168832_n.jpg
NO i did not meet Nick Fury(I wish) it's wax. We're supposed to be doing the same thing but I kinda just look like I'm gonna cry or something. ><

 

 

This one's just for funzies: (taken yesterday 12/6/13 Right before the Merry Maple Holiday parade. Yes I look ridiculous but it's all in good fun. xP) https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1471827_543495382407396_1751451268_n.jpg

 

I honestly don't think I'm that bad looking that it's a major turn-off. (I actually feel cocky/self absorbed even saying that. :/) What may be an issue is my quietness but that's something I don't really know how to change. 

So what do you all think? Opinions first then advice if you have any. Please/thank you.

 

 

[Mrgso]

In other news...facebook advertisements keep trying to tell me that I'll be skinny in 4 weeks if I eat a green coffee bean every day just like all the other college students that it apparently worked for. -eyeroll-

[MetalNinja]

I'd recommend reading Captain Awkward.

http://captainawkward.com/

 

I think this post has some advice you might appreciate (the comments are also good)

http://captainawkward.com/2012/01/16/question-174-dating-secrets-of-the-terrifyingly-amazing/

 

I really like Captain Awkward as a resource for all sort of awkward social situation advice, although your mileage may vary.

[shortstuff]

Subbing because I am interesting in hearing the replys, I have no advice though, I like you, am 20 and will be 21 early next year, have never had a boyfriend or anything close to it, unless you count the time one guy asked me out as a joke in high school

[FalseAesop]

First off don't feel pressured to be rushed or anything.  21 and a virgin isn't anything to be upset about.  While the average age in the US is 17 you're not alone.

 

You sound like a fine girl, and with your write up I'd say you should join on online dating site, like OKCupid.  You can put your interests right out there, be honest about you want, and you can be picky.   Just answer plenty of the questions on the site so that it'll sort matches better.  Sounds to me like you're just an introvert who feels awkward in social situations, to let the internets do the heavy lifting for you.

[Schmopey]

You need to figure out what it is you want. It sounds to me like you don't want a casual relationship, but something much more meaningful. If that is the case, you need to stay the course and be yourself. If Christ is important to you, spend time with Him.

 

I was pretty much in the men's size of your shoes nearly 20 years ago.

 

I have only been intimate with one person; she has been my wife for 20 days shy of 12 years at this point. We have three awesome children together. If it meant choosing between the two, I am happy to have forgone "experience" for what I have now.

 

Have the courage and patience to hold out for what is in store for you.

 

You will eventually find someone who loves you for exactly who you are but will help and push you to be the best you you can be. It is most definitely worth the wait!

 

God bless.

[wildross]

I'll echo Sh

 

You need to figure out what it is you want. It sounds to me like you don't want a casual relationship, but something much more meaningful. If that is the case, you need to stay the course and be yourself. If Christ is important to you, spend time with Him.

 

I was pretty much in the men's size of your shoes nearly 20 years ago.

 

I have only been intimate with one person; she has been my wife for 20 days shy of 12 years at this point. We have three awesome children together. If it meant choosing between the two, I am happy to have forgone "experience" for what I have now.

 

Have the courage and patience to hold out for what is in store for you.

 

You will eventually find someone who loves you for exactly who you are but will help and push you to be the best you you can be. It is most definitely worth the wait!

 

God bless.

I'll echo this, though it seems I was born in a different country morally speaking.  I've had sex with exactly 1 person (though I dated quite a bit in high school).  We've been married since 1980.  

[I-Jo]

You need to figure out what it is you want. It sounds to me like you don't want a casual relationship, but something much more meaningful. If that is the case, you need to stay the course and be yourself. If Christ is important to you, spend time with Him.

 

I was pretty much in the men's size of your shoes nearly 20 years ago.

 

I have only been intimate with one person; she has been my wife for 20 days shy of 12 years at this point. We have three awesome children together. If it meant choosing between the two, I am happy to have forgone "experience" for what I have now.

 

Have the courage and patience to hold out for what is in store for you.

 

You will eventually find someone who loves you for exactly who you are but will help and push you to be the best you you can be. It is most definitely worth the wait!

 

God bless.

This. Very much this.

I had no interest in dating in high school and then I went to a military school and dating was seriously frowned on. I was wildly inexperienced at dating or anything physical. My first interaction was when I was like 23 and it was the biggest mistake of my life. It's caused so much trauma. It's almost ruined my current relationship because of the bad memories and stress.

Wait for what you want. Don't rush it. You are young.

The only other thoughts I have are

1. Confidence is sexy. Confidence can make you stand out among a crowd. Even if you are quiet you can still be confident.

2. Looks. It doesn't take much to look like you are pulled together. You don't have to be a slob or sweats constantly but knoe how to confidently and clean be able to pull of a time shirt and jeans look. Looks aren't everything but putting a little effort on is worth the effort. Helps with the confidence thing too.

[Timmy M]

i'm in a similar boat, my excuse/reason is that i'm a shift worker, living at home until i move out in a couple of months (i've always felt weird about inviting people over, home seems boring), like most nerdy types (just a bit) i like my own space and never did much outside of my circle of friends, same still and all my mates have got girlfriends and even when they didn't we never did the whole 'getting girls' thing... i'll just lurk for now

unless you count the time one guy asked me out as a joke in high school

we're getting fairly big as a community now... don't we have the resources to organise a hit on this fucker?

 

P.S. you seem like a nice person, cautious around new people (same here) so hard to make friends (but the ones you're close to are friends... that shit's important) the only thing is confidence and putting yourself forward, then again being quiet could find you the right person, just make sure you speak up at the right time

[Zorch]

Wait for what you want. Don't rush it. You are young.

 

Going to agree with Schmopey and I-Jo here. Don't sweat your age/inexperience - it's not as uncommon as some would have you think.  Be yourself, present the best side of yourself, and in time that will give you the best chance of meeting someone who is a good match for you, and genuinely likes the person that you are.  One thing that may help your odds of meeting such a person are group activities related to something you enjoy - you may meet someone with a common interest.

 

I'm also in the category of people that didn't start dating until I was a bit older.  My first relationship started at the age of 24, and I've been single(dated a few folks, but didn't go anywhere) for most of the past few years prior to my current relationship.  Compared to the average man my age(31), I certainly am low on the "experience" scale in by many measures.  However I'm in a relationship now that's absolutely fantastic, and while there were times in the past when I(as well as some third parties) questioned whether patience was the correct strategy, I know for sure now that it was.

 

the only thing is confidence and putting yourself forward, then again being quiet could find you the right person, just make sure you speak up at the right time

And yes, when the right opportunity is there, you absolutely have to go for it and make your wishes/intentions known.  If someone genuinely likes you, they're not going to care whether or not you're perfectly smooth or a little bit awkward - they'll be thrilled to find out you're interested in them. It may be scary, but it's incredibly common for someone to be interested in someone else, but nothing happens because both people are too afraid of rejection and neither makes the first move.

 

In my current relationship there were several key points where things might have fallen apart(or simply not have happened) early on, except each time one of us found the courage to take that step to communicate our feelings through our words and actions.  Early on we were BOTH nervous as heck, but each time someone managed to say or do something to communicate their interest.  Some of our early interactions were somewhat nervous/awkward, but each of us forgave the other their nervousness because - well, #1 it's totally normal, and #2 if you really like someone you don't care whether they're the smoothest person in the world, you're just happy that they like you, too.

[Robot_Monerz]

I know you want guys to offer advice here, but I just wanted to go on record to say that I didn't date until I was 23. And sometimes that's just the way it is. There is no 1 formula that works for everyone. I wasn't really sure what I wanted, and looking back, I definitely wast ready to date any earlier! I had a lot of growing up to do. I had my own self esteem issues to deal with first.

I do remember feeling very similar to how you are feeling now. So I just thought I would throw that out there.

[lbgbvb]

I have this little theory.

 

First of all I am going to assume everyone here is a nerd. But what "type" do you go for? Fellow nerds?

 

We don't get no respect, do we? I'm married now, but I have several guy-nerd friends (Gerds) who are immediately friendzoned by every single girl they come in contact with. Its like a plague for them - "Oh, you're like a brother to me!" "I only like you as a friend!" "Oh, I don't see you like that." Oh, it just kills me! They're totally my type and I love basically every aspect about them - by George, if I weren't married, I'd date them myself. Yet I'm sure my husband wouldn't approve of me telling them that for their own benefit, so I just stay quiet about it.

 

There they sit. 30+ years old, everything wonderful to offer a girl, friendzoned, and none of them have a clue that I am absolutely crazy about them (in a hypothetical way). I try and try to get my own girlfriends in on such a wonderful guy (my female-nerd friends are hereby dubbed, Ferds) but they don't want them either. Not in that  way.

 

But why wouldn't a Ferd want a Gerd? It makes sense, doesn't it? What fun would they have together! Think of all those co-op games! You read the same books, you watch the same shows, listen to the same music...why not? If you're a Ferd, get yourself a Gerd! Not only do Gerds have the best personalities and taste, but you don't have to worry about "where they've been before" or if you'll be considered "the one." They appreciate you so much, its a match made in heaven!

 

But Ferds don't generally like Gerds. You know the complaint: Ferds get boyfriends who treat them like dirt, then run to their nearest friendzoned Gerd and cry on his shoulder - meanwhile, he's wondering why in the world she does that when he's sitting right there...available!

 

Not so fast, though! Ferds go through the same thing. Interested in a guy? Never mind...he is going to friendzone you as soon as he finds out you're a nerd, and it doesn't take long. You're such a cool girl, right? "Just one of the guys!" You're so funny and cool and fun to talk to....but "I don't see you...like that."

 

Why not? We're all nerds here, right? Why is there so much dissent in the ranks, here?

 

Again, I'm married now so I was able to overcome this when I finally found the right nerd. It takes so much time, but its worth it.

 

It seems to me that Gerds and Ferds both have a "type" (generally speaking) - they like the same people everybody else likes. The "obvious" people, the "hotties." My single Gerds are always complaining about how "Buffy/Tuffy/Muffy" turned him down. Buffy/Tuffy/Muffy is typically a skinny blonde bimbo who hasn't a clue who Rankin-Bass is, and one time she created a Sim at a friend's house so that makes her a "gamer."

 

Well, friend, I'm sorry Buffy/Muffy/Tuffy turned you down, but why don't you try Beth? She's standing over there wearing the Mario tee.

 

"Oh no no no," he protests. "I don't see her like that."

 

Same thing with the Ferds. Brad/Chad/Thad just broke her heart. Brad/Chad/Thad with his 2.0 GPA, notches on his bedpost, and pants hanging down by his ankles.

 

I'm sorry that Brad/Chad/That did you that way, but why don't you give Philip a shot? He's standing over there, wearing the Carl Sagan tee.

 

"Oh no no no!" she protests. "He's just a friend."

 

Sigh. I don't know why Gerds and Ferds don't just find each other and make the world a better place. Thank goodness I was able to find a Gerd who wasn't interested in the Muffy/Tuffy/Buffy type but it look a lot of searching to find him! Don't worry, you shouldn't have to, nor will you have to, change yourself to find him. Maturity has a lot to do with this as well - in the early 20s, guys are looking for a girl to have "fun times" with (if you catch my drift). Once they fully mature, they start looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with, and eventually they start searching in the wonderful world of Ferds.

 

And I don't mean to suggest that women don't mature (of course they do) but I think its easier for a female to find a mate than it is a male to find one.

 

But its all worth the wait in the end. All, and I mean all of my non-erd friends have found love, divorced, and are single again. Now Muffy/Tuffy and Brad/Chad are the lonely ones who can't get a date. After maturity sets in, pants around the ankles and being a bimbo just isn't appealing anymore.

 

All of my -erds who have finally found love are all still married....over a decade now.

 

I totally understand what you're doing through. It really frustrates me, though! I was friendzoned 1,000 times before the word was even invented. And yet I sat for hours wondering, "What is wrong with me? What am I doing wrong? I know I'm a good catch...what's up with this injustice? Why don't the geeks ever like me back?"

 

It wasn't until I was already married and dealing with my single Gerds before I realized this pattern of maturity, and watching the Ferds and Gerds avoid each other until they were ready to settle down.

 

I wish Ferds and Gerds would just get together to start with and skip all this nonsense. Don't worry, though, this has absolutely nothing to do with you - you haven't done anything wrong. Its just...you know...guys are dumb.

 

And if you were a guy I'd tell ya, "girls are dumb."

 

Everybody's dumb!

 

But the great news is they don't stay dumb forever! Either they will mature and come to you, or you'll find that special nerd who doesn't play these silly reindeer games. Whichever comes first!

 

[Timmy M]

word... people are fucking idiots

 

[Huntress]

I know you want guys to offer advice here, but I just wanted to go on record to say that I didn't date until I was 23. And sometimes that's just the way it is. There is no 1 formula that works for everyone. I wasn't really sure what I wanted, and looking back, I definitely wast ready to date any earlier! I had a lot of growing up to do. I had my own self esteem issues to deal with first.

I do remember feeling very similar to how you are feeling now. So I just thought I would throw that out there.

 

Yeah, I didn't date until I was 24. My friends had boyfriend after boyfriend while I remained single. I don't regret it at all. In part, I needed the time to work out who I was and to work through some issues about relationships I had stemming from my childhood. And it part it just wasn't until 24 that I found someone I really clicked with.

 

I spent some time when I was younger wondering if there was something wrong with me and whether I'd always be alone. Even after that relationship ended and I was single for about a year and a half I wondered if I was only going to experience love once in my lifetime. Looking back though the way things unfolded was totally right for me and I would not change a thing. And I found love a second time too

I'm just saying this to tell you... don't worry. From what you've said you're an awesome and interesting person with a lot going for you. You have plenty of time and these things can't be forced. Just rock on being the best you can be, enjoy being young with everything before you, cultivate those secret interests people are so surprised about because they an important part of you! Love will come when the time is right, promise.

[Frost of the Gloaming]

All I can add is don't settle, yes it's harder for us to find people but that doesn't mean you have to settle just for anybody especially if you there are major red flags that you're questioning. 

[insanity]

Stuff

 

While I agree with general consensus in here, especially the Ferd and Gerd theory.

 

I would like to counter though, with maybe there's a guy there in your life, that thinks of you in that manner, but he's in the same boat you are. I know I've been the guy in that position more than once, after a few times of letting them slip by I finally got up the courage to ask a co-worker out, and while she said no, it wasn't nearly as painful as I had thought it was going to be. That one incident has made it much easier to ask other women out, I've been shot down 2 out of 3 times I tried, but the pain is short lived, and next year I'll be getting married to my third shot after 6 years of dating. :-)

 

At the same time I've had a co-worker as me out, and you want to talk about flattered?... there was no way I could say no to her asking me out. There's nothing stopping you from asking a guy out.

 

To counter Frost, you shouldn't settle, that I agree with, just don't make your checklist so immense that no guy could possibly live up to it.

[lbgbvb]

I'm pretty sure the Ferd and Gerd Theory is correct. I've experienced it far too many times - and witnessed it countless others (besides, two people here agree with me as well!) I shall now dub it a scientific theory!

 

Why do we do this to our own people? It just baffles me! If it hurts to be friendzoned, then why are you friendzoning your fellow nerds? It does not compute!

 

Why is being a nerd so tough? Are we playing life in Hard Mode or something?

 

The ones who get hurt the most, are those of us who have sense enough to love our fellow nerd. Honestly, I can't imagine being attracted to anyone else. I'm the zombie of the relationship world - I want you for your brains!!!

 

But I think it helps to understand what's going on - this Ferd and Gerd stuff. Its just a dumb phase. We Ferds have it tough - not only are we friendzoned left and right by our geeky men, but we don't exactly have much in common with our female contemporaries, either. Am I right?

 

Is it not true that Ferds have predominantly male friends....none of which who will date her!? (Think "Napoleon Dynamite." Deb should have had two Gerds fighting over her, but nooooo! They wanted Summer and Tricia!)

 

No worries. Once this dumb phase is over, there is nothing but fulfilling and successful relationships to follow.

[AlexCold]

I honestly don't think I'm that bad looking that it's a major turn-off. (I actually feel cocky/self absorbed even saying that. :/) What may be an issue is my quietness but that's something I don't really know how to change. 

So what do you all think? Opinions first then advice if you have any. Please/thank you.

 

Mrgso,

 

First of all, do not worry too much about your age / looks. These have nothing real to do with this, other than they may seem to pressure you into something but they shouldn't. 

 

My advise is to focus on yourself. Make yourself the version you want to be. Do the things you want to do. Build your inner confident person into your outer physical self. I'm not even talking about weight or fitness. I'm talking about adventure and events. Meet people just randomly. Engage! In no time at all you will put yourself in situations that you enjoy and meet people that also enjoy it. This is when you may meet someone. 

 

Also, you don't need to find someone who likes the same things. You only need someone who supports your interests as you do for theirs. My wife and I have been together for 9 years (3 married). We like similar things but have very different interests/hobbies. I like cars/guns/sports and she's into music/crafts/ and a bunch of other things. We each support each other and it makes for a more interesting time. We are never bored with each other. BTW she acts like a 5 yr old all the time. 

[magi192]

-

[MetalNinja]

Okay no.  Friendzoning is bullshit.  Sex is not an exchange where you do someone enough favors and are nice to them enough that now they OWE you a romantic relationship.

 

Attraction is unfair.  We don't get to decide who we're attracted to.  You can't force yourself to have a crush on someone.

 

Having common interests doesn't mean you want a relationship with someone.  Even the best on-paper relationship can have absolutely zero chemistry in real life.

 

If you want to be friends with someone, be friends with them.  If you want to date them and they don't want to date you, don't be their "friend" until they cave in and "notice" you.

 

Or let XKCD explain it: http://xkcd.com/513/

 

F'n "friendzone" bullshit makes me want to light things on fire.  Ugh.  People get to decide FOR THEMSELVES if they want to date someone, and "I just don't feel that way about you" is pretty much THE BEST REASON EVER to not date someone.

 

Love is a mysterious and complex thing that definitely doesn't care if you both like Battlestar Galactica.

[Machete]

It's a numbers game. It's all about exposure. You have a greater chance of meeting someone who you will click with by talking to a lot of people than you will when your main strategy is hoping for your soulmate to meet you somewhere and sparks instantly fly. Even I have found people who can tolerate me when I made it a point to sign up for every dating site I could find (besides eHarmony, which could not find a match for my personality). I've had a lot of rejections and was largely ignored, but I've met a few outstanding people who I am still in contact with.

 

The only other thoughts I have are
1. Confidence is sexy. Confidence can make you stand out among a crowd. Even if you are quiet you can still be confident.
2. Looks. It doesn't take much to look like you are pulled together. You don't have to be a slob or sweats constantly but knoe how to confidently and clean be able to pull of a time shirt and jeans look. Looks aren't everything but putting a little effort on is worth the effort. Helps with the confidence thing too.

 

Seconded. I spoke with the star stripper in my area (I told her I had plans to be a male stripper). She hustled dudes for their money right under their noses, and she wasn't even that attractive when you looked at her objectively. What I noticed was her posture, her bubbly personality, and that she knew exactly what everyone wanted to hear, how they wanted to hear it. She said it was all in the eyes. That you have to really "own it".

[citizenkade]

I was in dating hell from the age of 16 to 24. I live in a state with a predominant cultural trait that I do not belong to, which made dating kind of tough. I'm also a tall, sturdy guy who hates sports and has the theme to Star Wars going through his head all the time. I always ended up in relationships with people who liked jock types, but thought Sci-fi movies and comic books were dumb. When I met my wife, it was pretty much a bolt of lightning hit me. Here was someone who liked who I was, and really didn't seem to care about the "weirdo" things I was in to.

 

Relationships are tough; you have to know when to compromise, when to accept, when to blindly follow, when to stick to your guns. But when it works, it works.

 

Be yourself, and be fearless in who that is. Someone will see that, and it will be like they were struck by lightning. Something about you is going to be captivating to someone that you find thrilling and takes your breath away. Just be who you are, be honest with who you are, and be your absolute best at being who you are.

 

And don't worry about the rest of it. If you love who you are, and what you do, that will radiate to someone. Good luck!

[Rostov]

Okay no.  Friendzoning is bullshit.  Sex is not an exchange where you do someone enough favors and are nice to them enough that now they OWE you a romantic relationship.

 

Attraction is unfair.  We don't get to decide who we're attracted to.  You can't force yourself to have a crush on someone.

 

Having common interests doesn't mean you want a relationship with someone.  Even the best on-paper relationship can have absolutely zero chemistry in real life.

 

If you want to be friends with someone, be friends with them.  If you want to date them and they don't want to date you, don't be their "friend" until they cave in and "notice" you.

 

Or let XKCD explain it: http://xkcd.com/513/

 

F'n "friendzone" bullshit makes me want to light things on fire.  Ugh.  People get to decide FOR THEMSELVES if they want to date someone, and "I just don't feel that way about you" is pretty much THE BEST REASON EVER to not date someone.

 

Love is a mysterious and complex thing that definitely doesn't care if you both like Battlestar Galactica.

 

Yep, think I'd broadly agree with all that.  Obviously it's different in some cultures with arranged/facilitated/match-made marriages, but in the western world, we can't/don't/won't/shouldn't reason ourselves into relationships which ought to be a good idea, but which intuitively, romantically, attraction-y..... no.  The logical conclusion of that line of thinking is to start relationships with our best friend, regardless of gender/sexual orientation.  If none of that matters, then why not?

 

But I also think that there's something to lbgbvb's ferd/gerd theory, and I think most people will recognise some truth in it.  But I wonder if it's an age-dependent thing? 

 

As we grow older, do we become better at focusing our attentions and affections on attainable matches (or matches that we think are attainable)?  In other words, do we develop defence mechanisms (which would be an advantage in evolutionary terms) that allow us to screen out mates who we consider "out of our league" or "unsuitable" for some other reason?  Is it the case that our first crushes are on *the* hottest guy/girl in the room (in our subjective opinion), but as we get older we learn from experience who is and who isn't likely to be potential partner material?  When we're younger - in our teenage years - are our tastes fairly unimaginative to certain cultural stereotypes?  Do we even subconsciously select crushes who are out of reach, so as to be safe from anything actually happening?  Are we so afraid of the disapproval of others that we can only select the hottest of the hot (by common acclamation and cultural norms), or be ridiculed for our taste/choice?  You have a crush on the barbie-looking girl?  Well, of course you do, and who can blame you?  You have a crush on the slightly geeky, shy girl who spends lunchtimes in the library - yeeeucch!  Why her, and not the barbie girl?  All this is just my wild speculation, but I wonder if there's some truth in this stuff....

 

Many people in their teens and early 20s have probably met a relatively small number of people who might be potential partners, mainly because they're not long out of adolescence and mainly because many haven't travelled much or experienced much of the world.  Family friends and school friends carry the baggage of your shared past, and (childhood sweetheart stuff notwithstanding) I don't think many people find the peers they grew up from early childhood with to be particularly attractive... maybe we're just over-familiar with them.  This relative lack of opportunity (both in terms of time and number of people) might have an effect not only on opportunities, but also on tastes and imagination.  It's also obviously true that as we grow older we learn more about ourselves, the world, and what we want.

 

I think most people in their late teens and early 20s think that they've completed most of that journey of self-discovery, whereas I'd say that's continued all my life so far into my late 30s.  But when you're younger, you're programmed to think you're largely done developing and learning about yourself, so nothing I can say will make any difference on that score.

 

But I guess what I'd say to Mrgso (the original poster) and anyone else in a similar situation is that you really do have time on your side.  And during that time, you're finding out more and more about yourself, and becoming more and more comfortable in your own skin.  And - and this is important - your potential partners are too.  Given that girls typically mature faster than boys, I've always felt rather sorry for them in having to put up with us.  Others have already mentioned the importance of confidence.... if you can give off a signal that says "I'm happy, I'm awesome, I'm comfortable and confident by myself" then potential partners are likely to respond to that... they'll want to be happy, awesome, comfortable and confident together. 

[lbgbvb]

I replied earlier - I guess it disappeared!

 

I certainly don't mean to suggest that people hook up with those they don't really want, or expect others to owe them something, or marry for life just because you may like the same TV show. Surely a potential mate and yourself should have some common interests so you'll have something to talk about - but its not necessary that you date, you know, your twin.

 

I'm saying that when we're young, it would behoove us to take an introspective look into why we like the people we like. Just take Buffy, since I'm such a fan of hers...is she a good conversationalist? Does she get good grades? Do you even know if she gets good grades? Does she make you laugh? Does she have amazing values? What is it about her, exactly? Its perfectly fine if she is all of these things and more.

 

But when we're young, we like Buffy because she's "hot," or we took cues from other people who already collectively agreed she was hot, therefore she is the one you're supposed to want. It doesn't matter if she's a good conversationalist, gets good grades, makes you laugh or has amazing values. Most of the time they don't even know. I still have Gerds who think this way, that they don't know Buffy at all beyond taking a class with her, or seeing her in the breakroom at work. He's never even talked to her personally - but she's cute! She's cute so he pines for her. He wants to date her...without knowing a darn thing about her.

 

I don't even think it has much to do with going "out of your league" as much as it is just letting superficiality cloud your judgment. Goodness knows it happened to me once in high school. I was head over heels for a fella until a friend of mine finally asked why.

 

You know what? I didn't know! I couldn't answer her. I learned a very valuable lesson that day. We can be so easily distracted by pretty, shiny things when we're young. So she's hot. So he makes some touchdowns. Whatever.

 

It seems the bulk of the population doesn't value maturity and intellect until the mid-to-late 20s. That's why they call us, "nerds" and not "awesome" (though you know we're totally awesome!)

 

But it seems to me that we nerds are smarter than the average bear at our own respective ages. That's why the Ferd/Gerd thing baffles me so much. We should have experienced this introspection a long time ago (like I did in high school). We should like people because they're smart, funny, cool, fun, happy, etc. Eventually we all do, as we mature. I just really thought fellow nerds would have done this a lot earlier. You know as well as I do that we're overachievers!

 

As far as friendzoning is concerned, yeah - that's a wonderful reason not to date someone. I'm not talking about any one person in particular. When you're on the receiving end of that time and time again - to the point you wonder why you even bother because you know how its going to turn out if you as much as say, "How would you like to get some coff..."  ERRRNK!!! Whammy. You lose.

 

It can be a real blow to your self esteem. Why always a friend and never a girl/boyfriend? It totally sucks. The person doing the "friending" doesn't suck, its just the principle that it appears that you have "Pal" tattooed on your forehead.

 

It doesn't last forever, though. Some of the guys who friended me way back then eventually looked me up years later after they'd seen the light. Oh well. Too late.

[I-Jo]

two things...

 

about friend zones- this on a trend line- would apply more to a man than a woman- but I think it's a good quote

 

"women aren't vending machines that you put "nice" into and sex/romance comes out- like the more you put into it- the more likely the other will come out"

 

that's just not the way it works. this is why the 'nice' wind up 'friendzoned' they think if they just keep being nice it will eventually happen- when the reality is if the girl wasn't interested- she's just going to keep using as a friend- and keep looking for her beau somewhere else. 

 

 

secondly: I agree there may be a time to ask someone to hang out- or go out.

I've done this 2x.

 

once- about 3 years ago- I struck up a conversation with someone from the audio store in the same strip mall as my dance studio.  We had a fun conversation- guy seemed nice- good looking- had a job. So a week later - I got there 5 minutes early- and grabbed my sharpie and walked in and said Hi Josh (or whatever his name was)... may I see your hand?

 

grabbed his hand- scrawled my my number on the back and walked out- tossing over my shoulder- "I'm free Friday- give me a call."

 

he never called- i only ever saw him once again. 

 

But let me tell you what- it gave me the balls of a bull.  I was liberated- knowing I didnt' have to wait to be asked- if I wanted to ask- I would- and if I got shot down- SO FUCKING WHAT. I DID IT- I asked. he clearly wasn't ready for all this so what- who says I have to wait around to be asked??

 

second time- not so dramatic- my current BF- I was working a double shift- but was going from a job up north- to a job back my way... but going all the way home would have taken me PAST the job site- by 25 miles- so a 50 mile round trip waste- with bad traffic.

 

So I called up my new found friend- we met via the internet on a sport bike forum trying to sell gear- and I said- hey I have nothing to do between 3 and 8.. you want to come have dinner so I don't have to sit here by myself?  And he agreed- came down- we played with my dog that I pretty much took everywhere at that point and just had fun hanging out and having dinner.  I actually at the time had no romantic interest in him what so ever at the time.  but lucky me- 3 years later- I'm still with him and I'm grateful for him.  We would have still hung out- sure- because that had always been the plan (he had training I wanted to mooch off of)  but this was definitely my invite first.

 

Shrug don't' be afraid to ask.