I don't know how to run :(

[ETFnerd]

Hey Bro, we didn't forget about you. We're just testing your t'jack filter and your ability to focus on what's important amid the clutter of life. This is an important life lesson. Don't let the bullsh!t derail you from where you want to go... and have some fun along the way...

[WizardTrip]

This thread made my day!

[Bro]

Lol. I just don't even know what goes on here half the time, but maybe if I just close my eyes it'll go away?

This thread is not about Crossfit.

To the OP - If you don't feel as if you're getting enough out of your runs, lets first look at what you're doing.

You say you're running 35 minutes - but at what speed? Same speed? Intervals? How far?

Well, according to MapMyRun, I typically average 5.1-5.5 mph. I don't do any intentional interval training, and usually my distance is around 2-3 miles.

[161803398874989]

Hate to break it to you, but that's pretty slow for a young guy (if that's you in the picture). Start doing intervals. Time yourself and try to hit the same time every interval. Adapt if you started too fast or too slow, but don't underestimate yourself. If you're not gassed after doing interval training, you're doing it wrong. A few ideas to get you started:

12x200m with 150m rest in between.

4x800m with 200m rest.

200-400-800-400-200 with 200m rest, maybe take 100m after the first run.

6x400 with 200m rest.

200-300-500-600 with 100m or 200m rest. Add a 200m finisher, running at maximum speed.

15x100 with 50m rest.

It's not just the distance you're running and the rest you're taking, though. A big part of running is about self-discipline, mind over matter. Your body will scream "I can't go any faster! I really can't!" and you'll be like "IF I WANT TO GO FASTER I'LL GO FASTER, DAMMIT!" and then your body will scream and ache and then your lungs will start protesting and then you get this AMAZING high and then you run a PR.

Afterwards you'll be like: "Did I just do that?". The answer is: "Yes, you just did that." And then it starts all over again. Next training, at the soonest, although going all out every training just isn't doable.

I think I just told you why I run.

[Bro]

Hate to break it to you, but that's pretty slow for a young guy (if that's you in the picture).

That's the point. I had intentionally went into a program doing slow, long runs because that's what my research had shown me to be the best path for what I was looking for. When I was in track and field during high school, I was always told that sprints or any kind of quick running would create bigger leg muscles, which was something I was always trying to avoid.

[chairohkey]

I was always told that sprints or any kind of quick running would create bigger leg muscles, which was something I was always trying to avoid.

[spezzy]

if you're trying to do nothing but waste away your muscles and fat, you just need to go longer to burn more calories then.

[Bro]

That's what I thought. Does speed matter in that case? Would it be better to run longer faster or run longer slower?

[catspaw]

As someone who has run several half and full marathons, I want to warn you that as you run further, you're going to get hungrier.

If all you want to do is waste away fat and muscle, just eat a lot less. Once you're at your "ideal" weight, running isn't going to help you very much in losing more weight.

[Knightwatch]

You said your diet was this:

1 1/4 Cup Frosted Flakes + 2/3 Cup 2% Reduced Fat Milk

Deli Ham & Deli Cheese on Whole Wheat Bread

Peperoni Hot Pocket

Cookies

There's your problem.

If the goal is to lose weight and gain no muscle, then you should eat cleaner foods and walk long distances. Take up hiking or something, but beware, you might develop calves.

Mostly though, I'd talk to people you trust about why exactly you value being under 130 or whatever. Training for aesthetics is fine, whatever, a lot more people do it than are willing to admit. But you seem to have a body type image in your mind that very nearly borders unhealthy. This isn't to be mean or to make you "feel bad" or whatever, like you asked us not to do in your first post. But, I think it would irresponsible of me to offer any kind of advise without asking that you also look inside and see what your motives really are. To not want to be a hulking beast in one thing, to fear muscle that might come with swifter jogging is an al together different animal.

Best of luck with all of it.

-KW

[chairohkey]

Mostly though, I'd talk to people you trust about why exactly you value being under 130 or whatever. Training for aesthetics is fine, whatever, a lot more people do it than are willing to admit. But you seem to have a body type image in your mind that very nearly borders unhealthy. This isn't to be mean or to make you "feel bad" or whatever, like you asked us not to do in your first post. But, I think it would irresponsible of me to offer any kind of advise without asking that you also look inside and see what your motives really are. To not want to be a hulking beast in one thing, to fear muscle that might come with swifter jogging is an al together different animal.

+1 for truth. Well said.

[Bro]

You said your diet was this:

There's your problem.

-KW

Of course! My food is terrible, and I've been working to reduce the amount of unhealthy sugar on my diet. Strangely, it's been a lot easier than I imagined. I'm currently working now to put more fruits (apples, bananas, grapes, oranges, raspberries) on my list so I can snack healthily. Also, I'm trying to find some decent meal plans, which I'm terrible at since I never actually cooked my own food long-term. Right now, I'm thinking of grilled chicken (skinless) and salads with minimal dressing.

Also, I appreciate the way you can show concern without being hostile about it, but it's honestly nothing serious. It's mainly a style thing, but it's also the annoyance of having to buy pants that can go over my calves and thighs, rather than what I think looks good/fits best as the waist. My leg muscles are already on the big side, so I feel the fear is justified because I'm trying not to make the problem worse.

[Guest Carjack]

If your legs are big without resistance training, it's not from running fast. It's just your genetic blueprint, or the Gods in the Heavens Above as Tink's trainer would say.

This is why you need spandex tights. They'll look good on you if you wear a green tunic with them, and maybe a bow and arrow quiver.

[ETFnerd]

A lot of people disrespect marathon runners but let's look at what they are able to do.

A top marathon runner can run a marathon in 2 hrs and 10 minutes.

The current marathon record holder is Patrick Makau of Kenya. He ran the Berlin Marathon in this year on 9/25 at 2:03:38.

A marathon can be thought of as a series of 100-meter segments. A marathon is 421.95 100-meter segments.

Mr. Makau ran every 100-meter segment at an average of 17.74 seconds. On 9/25 he did this almost 422 times without any rest in between. I invite you to try to run 100 meters in 17.74 seconds and invite you to imagine doing it 422 times in a row without rest.

Usain Bolt, the current 100-meter sprint world recordholder runs this distance once at 9.58 seconds. He couldn't do it twice.

There a a handful of humans on Earth who can run a marathon under 2:10.

These are super-elite athletes at a level that you cannot train to get to without the right genetics and a lifetime of commitment.

Training consistently will add speed. Go a little faster than what feels comfortable. That pace will naturally get faster as you train as long as you are consistent.

Big muscles are neither necessary nor efficient in all cases. Martial arts, gymnastics, break-dancing, boxing are all examples of sports where big muscles do not translate directly into better performance. I would imagine that even crossfit competition would be hindered by big muscles.

Listen to the different views and make up your own mind about what you want for yourself. You should never have to apologize for what makes you happy. (unless it's illegal or if you're an assistant coach named Sandusky at Penn State)

[ebm1224]

bro, we talked last night but these folks seem to be touching a bit on what i was getting at. there's a really fine line between what you want to look like and what, maybe, you should look like. one thing that hasn't been mentioned here that might give these folks some more insight is that you're only 18 so, guys, take that into consideration (though, bro, you did mention that you don't think you're growing anymore).

i struggled with my body image for a long time (as i know many others have) and i still do at times. i've mentioned this before but i have a relatively pear-shaped body, meaning that when i gain weight it goes straight to the hips/thighs/butt region but my upper body tends to stay small. it sounds like you deal with something similar in that you don't feel like your legs quite match the rest of you. the truth is, very few people are "perfectly proportioned" - most everyone has something about their body they would like to change but can't because of genetics. we are all different and i think it might be good to start thinking of your body in terms of "what's the best and healthiest version of myself that i can be?" instead of "how do i get to a certain 'look'?" most everyone works out at least in part to look a certain way so i'm not saying it's vain or anything but i think it might be good (and mature) of you to start thinking about what your body can do as the end itself and not so much the means to an end.

perhaps a change in thinking: "i want to run for an hour without stopping because that would be a great accomplishment" as opposed to "i want to run as much as it takes to fit into x outfit."

[ETFnerd]

^^^Listen to her. She's a college grad and smart in spite of it... ;-)

[andygates]

Of course, you could make the outfit the prize for achieving the athletic goal.

Aesthetics schmaesthetics, but it's a grand motivator.

As for improving running, push yourself. Running apps like Runkeeper and Nike+ will give you shout-outs as you go. A treadmill is a very effective (if very samey) way to boost speed: just increase the speed a notch each time you run on it (a friend who is very well adapted to level-grinding did this to ace a half-marathon). Me, I'm a plodgrinder with slow half-marathons and one marathon DNF in my past, but the same sort of not-quite-newbie level of awesomeness. Run harder, run regularly. Set goals.

[Guest Carjack]

bro, we talked last night but these folks seem to be touching a bit on what i was getting at. there's a really fine line between what you want to look like and what, maybe, you should look like.

This is why spandex is the way to go. Jeans are inflexible and force you to be a certain size even if your body should grow out of them.

Tights are stylish when worn by stylish people.

[ETFnerd]

I think most powerlifters wear a unitard... spandex?

[Bro]

the truth is, very few people are "perfectly proportioned" - most everyone has something about their body they would like to change but can't because of genetics. we are all different and i think it might be good to start thinking of your body in terms of "what's the best and healthiest version of myself that i can be?" instead of "how do i get to a certain 'look'?"

I kinda agree, but at this point I don't necessarily feel like I have to make any compromises. I still have a lot of things left to try before I can actually make the decision as to whether or not I need to just accept anything in move on. I feel the Paelo diet will help me reach this point.

I want to thank everyone for responding to the thread. I appreciate all the advice and input and I'll take it all in over the next few weeks before I start coming up with my challenge plan!

[ebm1224]

now i'm starting to agree with bro that maybe if i close my eyes it'll all go away.

[beets]

Sorry if it has already been mentioned. I just skimmed the thread as there was a lot of other discussion going on.

Your running technique may also be contributing to why you're not feeling what you are expecting to feel. I don't have a reference for this as I read it in a book at a sports store I used to work at. The basic gist was... An effective running technique is one where your body moves you forward. Many runners put addition and unnecessary strain on muscles and joints because they slam/stomp hard onto the ground. By co-ordinating your legs a bit better, you can reduce the stomping and it should feel more like a spring to move you forward. I have never been a stomper, so I'm not sure what difference it makes to be 'springier'. Hope that's maybe a lead on something.

[161803398874989]

This isn't going to sound nice, but I think it needs to be said.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE WEAK?

I used to be weak. When a big tent had to be set up (not camping), I was better off doing nothing, since I needed help constantly. Nobody ever asked me if I could help them with this or that task if it involved lifting anything even remotely heavy. When playing sports, if I got tired, I quit. It was pathetic. Until, one day, I decided I wasn't going to be weak anymore. I started doing the best I could. I practiced and worked and just went through the pain because I said: "I'm not that person any more." That was when I stopped being weak, mentally.

Now? Now I'm the guy who can comfortably watch other people struggling on pushups, correct their form (for shits and giggles), while knocking out a number of them twice as high, chin to deck. I'm not at all muscley, but I've got a higher skill level than others. Being strong isn't about having a lot of muscle. Sure, it helps, but what makes people strong is the ability to recruit a high number of motor units in a muscle.

People are trying to make you feel bad about your goal because they think it's a bad goal and to be honest, I'm with them. Nobody should be weak just because they want to look skinny. I have a friend who's 1.90m and weighs around 60kg. That guy is one skinny bastard, yet he's strong as hell. He's able to perform all kinds of pushup, pullup and other maneuvers most people only dream of. He has judo practice three times a week and it shows in his strength. Just not his body. Nobody should be weak. You can look weak, but you can't BE weak.

[Bro]

This isn't going to sound nice, but I think it needs to be said.

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BE WEAK?

I used to be weak. When a big tent had to be set up (not camping), I was better off doing nothing, since I needed help constantly. Nobody ever asked me if I could help them with this or that task if it involved lifting anything even remotely heavy. When playing sports, if I got tired, I quit. It was pathetic. Until, one day, I decided I wasn't going to be weak anymore. I started doing the best I could. I practiced and worked and just went through the pain because I said: "I'm not that person any more." That was when I stopped being weak, mentally.

Now? Now I'm the guy who can comfortably watch other people struggling on pushups, correct their form (for shits and giggles), while knocking out a number of them twice as high, chin to deck. I'm not at all muscley, but I've got a higher skill level than others. Being strong isn't about having a lot of muscle. Sure, it helps, but what makes people strong is the ability to recruit a high number of motor units in a muscle.

People are trying to make you feel bad about your goal because they think it's a bad goal and to be honest, I'm with them. Nobody should be weak just because they want to look skinny. I have a friend who's 1.90m and weighs around 60kg. That guy is one skinny bastard, yet he's strong as hell. He's able to perform all kinds of pushup, pullup and other maneuvers most people only dream of. He has judo practice three times a week and it shows in his strength. Just not his body. Nobody should be weak. You can look weak, but you can't BE weak.

My decision to willingly be weak is a personal one, and I can't exactly find the words to explain it. I feel like it's a part of the identity I wish to represent. I understand that it probably doesn't make sense to most people, especially on a site encouraging weightlifting and becoming stronger, but your lack of understanding does not give you the right to try to make me feel bad about anything just because you do not agree. I am not attempting to achieve my goal in any unhealthy way, so therefore you do not even have the grounds to argue that I should feel bad. I'm all for hearing feedback from the community, whether or be supportive or not supportive, but I feel it needs to be in the form of constructive suggestions. It is my choice and I will not be told what I can and cannot do.

[161803398874989]

My decision to willingly be weak is a personal one, and I can't exactly find the words to explain it. I feel like it's a part of the identity I wish to represent. I understand that it probably doesn't make sense to most people, especially on a site encouraging weightlifting and becoming stronger, but your lack of understanding does not give you the right to try to make me feel bad about anything just because you do not agree. I am not attempting to achieve my goal in any unhealthy way, so therefore you do not even have the grounds to argue that I should feel bad. I'm all for hearing feedback from the community, whether or be supportive or not supportive, but I feel it needs to be in the form of constructive suggestions. It is my choice and I will not be told what I can and cannot do.

It's not a lack of understanding. It's just that being weak is bad for you. You'll get injured. You'll have less energy. You'll be more prone to sickness. You'll have to rely on someone else to do certain tasks.

And, no, you're not going towards your goal by unhealthy means (nothing wrong with running a 5K), but the goal in itself is unhealthy. I get that you want the skinny look. Apparently, it's fashionable. Just don't detoriate your quality of life if you don't have to.

And this is as constructive as negative feedback gets.