For the Serious Athletes: What's everyone's take on supplements?

[Pat G]

While playing rugby, i used a creatine supplement during pre season training, Without any hard numbers, it improved my strength gains and recovery after training.

At the moment i'm just taking a multivitamin daily. No disposable income for anything else.

@AJ Rock. more info on creatine would be great.

[aj_rock]

I thought the recent research basically busts the creatine "loading" myth, or maybe that's not what you mean. Yes you need to take it regularly for it to really do its thang, but you don't need to take a crap ton of it to "load" or whatever like people thought in the old days. We may not be arguing on this one.

However, the strength via increased cross sectional area point doesn't sit well with me. The only thing that affects strength in that context are the number of contractile proteins in a given cross section sooo... allowing one to better utilize existing myofibrils by packing tons of easily accessible energy next to them, sure. Positive strength effects via increased CSA without a corresponding increase in myofibrils.. not so much. See also: sarcoplasmic vs myofibrilar hypertrohpy.

Without going too much into it, the load that I'm referring to is much reduced from the amounts some people used to take. It also takes a bit more finesse to make it work. First the muscles must already be depleted of glycogen. This ensures that any insulin spikes drive available glucose into muscle glycogen stores. Thus, a 20g load, combined with previous glycogen depletion and an adequate supply of carbs and water, can drive excess glycogen into the muscle, creating 'supercompensation'. That sounds like a good thing, right? But absolutely, if you take 30-40g of creatine in a day, you won't lift heavier things; you'll just get massive stomach aches and unfortunate bowel movements.

As for the CSA thing, I know it's counter-intuitive, but you're right in that it's an increase in ACTUAL strength per say. Larger CSA gives you a mechanical advantage to exerting force, much the same way bone-tendon insertion and lever length does. In the name of progressive muscle overload, it could potentially help one get over a plateau by temporarily increasing that mechanical advantage. The idea is that, you lift beyond your capabilities, then stop taking the creatine, and some of the protein synthesis that occured while lifting heavier weights remains active.

Lachy: BCAA's = branch-chain amino acids. Basically just a small group of protein AA's that have been shown to be very important in muscle maintanence and building. While an adequate supply of protein usually supplements enough BCAAs to do what they need to do, some people choose to supplement them because either their protein sources aren't getting them an adequate amount, or they wish to perform exercise while fasted, in which case BCAA's can contribute to maintaining an anti-catabolic state, at least until the first meal of the day is consumed. If you have trouble gaining muscle mass, I've seen some people in the same position who started taking BCAA's along with a good training program and diet and see better results.

Deficiencies are best left discussed with your doctor, but the most common ones are w-3 (the fish oil), vitamin D (in winter months), and iron (in women).

chairohkey; kudos for being the first to mention the EC stack! Not my cup of joe (had a bad experience with it), but if it works for you then all the power to yah buddy!

Pat G: YAY another rugby guy!

[jdanger]

As I thought, we weren't really disagreeing on the creatine point.

As for the CSA thing, I know it's counter-intuitive, but you're right in that it's an increase in ACTUAL strength per say. Larger CSA gives you a mechanical advantage to exerting force, much the same way bone-tendon insertion and lever length does. In the name of progressive muscle overload, it could potentially help one get over a plateau by temporarily increasing that mechanical advantage. The idea is that, you lift beyond your capabilities, then stop taking the creatine, and some of the protein synthesis that occured while lifting heavier weights remains active.

This is exactly what I was pedantically fishing for. It now passes my hey not so fast detector.

[GoToTheGround]

Standard stuff every morning:

Multi-vit

5000iU Vit D

2g Fish Oil

ZMA (evening)

I then add this most days (all mixed as a single drink in the morning - have some time off it after every big 5/6 week competition/deadline):

Caffeine

Aceytl L Carnitine

Taurine

L Tyrosine

EAA Blend

Have also recently started adding Creatine Monohydrate (I have not done a loading phase, just 5g/day) & Beta Alanine.

[spatzcat]

VITAMIN D!!!!

[ETFnerd]

yeah VD is cool...

[Oz.]

I take daily:

Multi-Vitamin (Hehe it makes my wee wee fluro!)

Green Tea (I actually forgot the reason why, but its a habit now)

Fish Oil

Creatine Mono (No loading, just 5g a day)

Im thinking of quitting the Creatine as started it up again a week ago and suffer from dry throat, from not drinking enough, and my sleep seems disturbed.

Cant say im seeing any worthwhile gains on it, but i am doing Stronglifts, so add 2.5kg anyway. Go figure.

Oz.

[ZenGwen]

Wow, I feel positively spartan. I take...

Fish oil

Multivitamin with extra Iron (recommended to me by my gynecologist due to dysmennorhea, has worked a treat in conjunction with BC pill)

Calcium & VitD pill (Lotsa osteoporosis in my family)

I tend to have a protein shake after a heavy lifting workout, but I've stopped at the moment - need to look around for a good brand now that I've gone paleo.

[K Po]

Seems like I'm on the same page as a lot of other people here.

-Vitamin D because I'm inside all day

-Multivitamin to shore up any deficiencies in my diet

-Fish oil for Omega 3's

-Protein powder (mixture)

[scott82962]

Hmm. I'm quite surprised that so many are using supplements. I tried creatine last year when I was trying for some significant strength gains. I think I looked like I puffed up a bit but it's hard to say what actually worked - the creatine or the amped up work outs. I did take whey protein last year when I was trying to gain back 25 pounds I lost during some emotional trauma. But for months now I've just been eating really clean (can "really clean" include he occasional over indulgence in IPA's?). I've been focusing on Paleo for 5 weeks and that has made a tremendous difference in how I feel.

I don't want to try to hijack the thread but is there a general consensus on the top 3 supplements to take? (I'm 49 so my needs might be different than others.)

[jdanger]

I don't want to try to hijack the thread but is there a general consensus on the top 3 supplements to take? (I'm 49 so my needs might be different than others.)

Depends on if you have any special conditions but generally fish oil, vit D and a maybe a multi would be the main things. After that, probably some level of protein/amino acid supplementation.

[SuperVitali]

Hmm. I'm quite surprised that so many are using supplements. I tried creatine last year when I was trying for some significant strength gains. I think I looked like I puffed up a bit but it's hard to say what actually worked - the creatine or the amped up work outs. I did take whey protein last year when I was trying to gain back 25 pounds I lost during some emotional trauma. But for months now I've just been eating really clean (can "really clean" include he occasional over indulgence in IPA's?). I've been focusing on Paleo for 5 weeks and that has made a tremendous difference in how I feel.

I don't want to try to hijack the thread but is there a general consensus on the top 3 supplements to take? (I'm 49 so my needs might be different than others.)

IMO:

Fish oil

multi vitamin

vitamin D

Whey as an honorable mention, if you cant get enough protein from food.

[aj_rock]

Scott: jdanger and vitali have the right of it. Those three are vitamins everyone should probably take.

At the same time, there's a reason I pre-faced with 'for serious athletes'. most supplements are meant to take you above and beyond what you can achieve without them. General fitness that results in a prolonged life span and increased quality of life is easily accomplished through proper diet and training, so if you're not heading toward the goal of performing in some athletic event, be it a tough mudder, record setting mountain climb, or the next weekend-warrior get away.

As always, 80/20 rule still applies. First 20% = proper diet will get you 80% there. Next 20% = training will get you 95% of the way. Supplements, used correctly, will get you 99%.

[andygates]

So what's the deal on the extra D?

[WizardTrip]

So what's the deal on the extra D?

Curious about this too. People are saying its because they don't get enough sun, but how little sun is not enough?

[ETFnerd]

i'd say you don't need VD unless you spend 24hrs under fluorescent lights... leave the house/office for walk, unless you live in Canada... then get the heck outta there for winter...

having said that SV lives in florida... not enough sun there...? milk not irradiated...?

[aj_rock]

I live in Canada and between working indoors during daylight hours and having overcast skies 24/7, I require vit D. It's definitely improved my winter mood vastly.

[andygates]

Ah, okay.