Lifting when you're still pretty overweight?

[purplekelly]

I'm working on designing a new lifting routine. I've been lifting for a few weeks now with adjustable dumbbells, but it's pretty much been all isolation exercises. Reading this site has convinced me that I need to do more compound moves. My bench was just delivered the other day, and I'll be getting that set up tonight. I've got a barbell (not Olympic) with 100 lbs of weight, plus two 25lb adjustable dumbbells.

So, my backstory: I've lost over 160 lbs, but I still weigh about 240 (female, 31 years old, 5'6"). Some of the compound lifts scare me because my knees and ankles are already pretty bad from when I used to weigh over 400 lbs. I read the article about squats and how if your form is correct, you shouldn't hurt you knees, but I'm still nervous. I'm curious to hear from anyone else who started doing serious lifting while still significantly overweight, and if there's anything you'd reccommend.

Right now I'm using the How to Build Your Strength Training Routine post as my guide, which basically says to pick one exercise for each body part using this list.

Quads – squats, lunges, one legged squats, box jumps.

Butt and Hamstrings – hip raises, deadlifts, straight leg deadlifts, good mornings, step ups.

Push (chest, shoulders, and triceps) - overhead press, bench press, incline dumbbell press, push ups, dips.

Pull (back, biceps, and forearms) – chin ups, pull ups, inverse body weight rows, dumbbell rows.

Core (abs and lower back) – planks, side planks, exercise ball crunches, mountain climbers, jumping knee tucks, hanging leg raises.

There's quite a few things on this list that I just can't do. For example, proper form push-ups, dips, chin-ups, pull-ups...all not possible for me at my current size and fitness level. Right now I'm thinking squats (with dumbbells, because I don't have the right kind of rack for barbell squats), deadlifts, bench presses, rows (barbell or dumbbell), and planks (if I can do a plank).

Thoughts? Words of caution or encouragement? Personal experiences?

[bigm141414]

What you've chosen to do is what I've been doing for, oh, 6-7 months and let me tell you, it's great. Granted there is nothing wrong with variety but starting out keep it simple and work on compound lifts. For me this is what I do:

Squats

Dead lift

Presses (either bench or overhead)

Pullups (you can start with inverted bodyweight rows, work up to negatives, and then go for a dead hang or band assisted)

push ups (start with wall pushups and work your way to the floor)

Honestly that's it. Planks are good too, and I won't discourage you from doing them. Doing these will get you into pretty decent shape. I stared adding in dips in Dec. and a few other things here and there for assitance exercises (such as farmer's walk, etc.) but other than that I've gotten pretty strong doing these.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

If you're scared of squats, do them with no weight, or just the bar, at very high reps until you are comfortable with them. Once you get that down, adding weight isn't a problem because it just makes the bar heavier.

My knees used to be crap from the terrible field (rock hard) that we practiced football on in high school. Strengthening them with the squats has led to the soreness I got from running going completely away.

[wildross]

My knees, lower back and ankles all feel much better since I started squatting regularly about a year ago. I am not grossly overweight, but I'm certainly "large framed". I started with bodyweight squats for a couple weeks, then the bar, then more weights.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I just say listen to what they are saying because the advice is sound and legit.

[CaptainCat]

What you've chosen to do is what I've been doing for, oh, 6-7 months and let me tell you, it's great. Granted there is nothing wrong with variety but starting out keep it simple and work on compound lifts. For me this is what I do:

Squats

Dead lift

Presses (either bench or overhead)

Pullups (you can start with inverted bodyweight rows, work up to negatives, and then go for a dead hang or band assisted)

push ups (start with wall pushups and work your way to the floor)

Honestly that's it. Planks are good too, and I won't discourage you from doing them. Doing these will get you into pretty decent shape. I stared adding in dips in Dec. and a few other things here and there for assitance exercises (such as farmer's walk, etc.) but other than that I've gotten pretty strong doing these.

Boom! Nailed it, go with variations, do negatives, scale the workout to you, you're still going to get great benefits!

You're in good company, some (most?) of the people here have had to work hard to get 1 chinup, or 1 deep squat, you can totally do it!

[Waldo]

My knees hurt like heck when I started exercising and trying to lose weight. I could not do one bodyweight squat because of how painful it was (legs were probably strong enough). I started with resistance bands to work on my hamstrings/quads and wall sits, and eventually the pain subsided enough to where I could do a bodyweight squat. It still felt like my kneecap was going to rip off (especially at first), but I got over the psychological part and did them. That was really the turning point, as the squats are a MUCH better leg exercise. My knee pain went away rather rapidly from that point. Its been a couple months since I first could do a bodyweight squat. I can still feel it a little when I squat, but it is no big deal anymore. Lunges are a little more painful than squats. Other than those particular times I'm totally pain free in my knees, whether running or standing up from a chair (that used to be a really painful task before I started losing weight). A lot of knee pain that people have, especially overweight people, is due to their quads and hamstrings being too weak and tight, putting undue strain on knee tendons. Squats are pretty much the best possible therapy (plus weight loss) there is for the condition, even though it is also one of the most painful things that you can do when you have the condition.

BTW - Congrats on losing >160 lbs. Awesome work.

[oystergirl]

All great information and Waldo really nailed it about taking it slow and building up the muscles before moving on to more difficult moves. Obviously overcoming fear is also important. I know with my husband, he could not do squats because he had a large belly and so when he went into the squat his center of gravity was too far forward and it put a lot of stress on his knees. When he started doing step ups onto a 10 inch box, one leg at a time it strengthened his legs sufficiently without the shift in his center of gravity and he had no pain.

Congrats on your weight loss, your continued journey to health and your new gym set up! With the proper tools and attitude you can achieve your goals!

[67alecto]

I was strength training from day 1 when I decided to lose weight. I started with resistance bands, moved to the Nerd Fitness Bodyweight stuff, then joined a gym at the 6-month mark.

Some of the exercises you listed are a bit too specialized. I'd recommend keeping it simple.

If you can't do pushups or knee pushups, try doing them on the stairs. If you're not quite ready for that, start with wall pushups.

Here's the one that I did for a couple of months:

http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/07/17/no-gym-no-problem-bodyweight-exercises-and-the-nerd-fitness-challenge/

[Waldo]

I've seen and used a similar full body split up as those listed, however I tweaked things a little bit and I think it has aided productivity.

Quads – squats, lunges, one legged squats, box jumps.

Butt and Hamstrings – hip raises, deadlifts, straight leg deadlifts, good mornings, step ups.

Push (chest, shoulders, and triceps) - overhead press, bench press, incline dumbbell press, push ups, dips.

Pull (back, biceps, and forearms) – chin ups, pull ups, inverse body weight rows, dumbbell rows.

Core (abs and lower back) – planks, side planks, exercise ball crunches, mountain climbers, jumping knee tucks, hanging leg raises.

The upper and lower body are a little different when it comes to muscle functioning. When doing leg exercises that don't isolate a muscle (as machines do), you are using every muscle in your legs. Some are emphasized a little more, but that is about it. While legs definitely should be a point of emphasis, I think they are a little overemphasized when you break it up into front/back. Changing your stance for squatting changes the muscles emphasized. Wider than shoulder width puts more emphasis on your butt/hamstrings, shoulder width puts more emphasis on the quads. Leg exercises are very tiring as well, they use big muscles an a lot of them. Upper body exercises all use fewer much smaller mucles, so they don't tire you overall quite as much.

I think that the upper body push group is underemphasized when using this sort of split up. It can operate in two totally different planes, above you and in front of you. In front of you emphasizes the chest and triceps, above you the shoulders and triceps. If you only do bench presses/pushups your shoulders get very little work. If you only do overhead presses your chest gets very little work. Forearm/grip is pretty inconsequential for the push exercises (totally different story for the pull exercises). If you split them up your triceps have to pull double duty, however the triceps are typically a mucle that can handle a ton of punishment before really tiring, and when they do tire, the shoulders/chest can pick up a lot of the slack.

Abs are almost always overemphasized. When doing pushups you are also doing planks. When squatting/deadlifting your core has to stabilize the weight, same for overhead press if done standing or sitting w/o back support. Even if you do absolutely nothing specifically for your abs, they still get a pretty good workout. There is nothing wrong with doing additional ab workouts, however try not to do them until late in your workout or last. It isn't very productive to get tired out doing ab workouts early on.

The one exercise I noticed is missing above are bridges, something that I've been doing more and more of. Bridges primarily target the back muscles along your spine and help a great deal with flexibility. Additionally pretty much every form will target the butt/hamstrings, the more advanced bridges also target the shoulders and triceps as well. Bridges help a lot with back pain; strengthening back muscles, helping posture, and increasing flexibility all help to ease aches and pains in the back. A bridge is basically the exact opposite of a crunch, and can be looked at as the push/pull partner of ab exercises.

Also don't feel that you need to only pick one exercise. There is nothing wrong with doing a bench press set and two pushup sets instead of picking one or the other for all three sets. You are still working the same primary muscles. This becomes important when you work on real tough exercises that you can only do a couple reps of that lose reps fast set to set. For example, if your first set of pushups you can do 3, your second set only 1, you'd be better off doing one set of pushups then switching to the bench press for the rest of your sets (the bench press with low weight is easier than a pushup) as you will get a better workout while still working towards pushup progress.

While not as important at first, watch the clock. This becomes more and more of an issue as you gain exercise stamina. Your productivity wil drop drastically after about 40-50 minutes. You want to make sure every part you are working gets ample time. While more of an issue for experienced lifters swithing to full body workouts, it can be an issue for everybdoy. Don't spend too long on the first couple exercises.

[Hermione Gainser]

I agree with what's been said above: compound variations and slowly build up. My workout buddy started close to where you are now. Her knee was an issue originally but we really focused on form and now it's not a problem at all. Watch form videos, tape yourself, ask for tips and tricks to checking your own form while you're doing the squat, etc. Take it slow and do any variation until you feel comfortable.

She also wore a knee brace a couple times to keep her knee in line (her problem was her knees weren't tracking with her feet). It helped her feel safe enough to do a good squat and get used to good form. The brace didn't last long.

[spatzcat]

I would like to add a WOOOOOOT to you! for losing over 160lbs. What an accomplishment!

[purplekelly]

Thanks everyone for your advice, and especially to Waldo for the detailed replies!

Waldo, can you give me more detail on what kind of stuff you did with the resistance bands to build up your leg muscles? Wall sits are a good idea too. I'm also thinking about maybe doing...sort of assisted squats? I have an adjustable office chair that I can set so it's lower than what you'd normally sit in, and practice standing straight up without bending forward, just letting my butt touch the chair when I come down. I'm thinking that might help me get my form right without risking injury, since the chair would be there to catch me if I felt my knees giving out...and that would probably help with the mental hurdle too.

Bridges are a neat idea too, but I'm not sure if I can do one. The last time I did, I was probably a teenager. I should try it tonight when I get home. If I can't it's an issue of strength, not flexibility. I'm super-flexible...actually my joints are hypermobile, so I get sprains and stuff easily (another reason I worry about stressing my joints too much). Even at over 400lbs, I could lock my knees, bend over, and put my palms flat on the ground.

I think I'm going to do wall push-ups (and eventually knee and then regular ones) in addition to bench/overhead presses.

[purplekelly]

She also wore a knee brace a couple times to keep her knee in line (her problem was her knees weren't tracking with her feet). It helped her feel safe enough to do a good squat and get used to good form. The brace didn't last long.

Yeah, that's kind of my issue too. As I mentioned above, my joints are hyper-mobile, and sometimes it's hard to keep them from doing their own thing. For example, I can bend my hand down and touch my thumb to my inner forearm with no pain. When I try to do lunges, my alignment is always all messed up, and I have a really hard time forcing it.

[Waldo]

Waldo, can you give me more detail on what kind of stuff you did with the resistance bands to build up your leg muscles? Wall sits are a good idea too. I'm also thinking about maybe doing...sort of assisted squats? I have an adjustable office chair that I can set so it's lower than what you'd normally sit in, and practice standing straight up without bending forward, just letting my butt touch the chair when I come down. I'm thinking that might help me get my form right without risking injury, since the chair would be there to catch me if I felt my knees giving out...and that would probably help with the mental hurdle too.

The thing with the chair is usually called a box squat, and it is done to both help mentally and perfect form.

I did 4 main exercises (in addition to wall sits) to strengthen my legs to make the knee pain go away and build up to bodyweight squats. I'm not sure as to the actual names of things:

1. Attach the band to my ankle and my treadmill (a large immovable object) about 1' off the floor. Lie on my stomach facing away from the attachment point with just a little tension on on the band. Do a curl by bending the knee and pulling with the hamstring. I started with 2 sets each leg and eventually built up to 3.

2. Sit in a chair and attach the band to my ankle, stepping on the other end with my other foot basically straight down from the front of the chair, so that there is a little bit of tension on it with the band attached leg a couple inches off the ground. I would also grab the band behind the foot stepping on it just to be sure that it didn't slip. From there do a leg extension and straighten the leg with the band attached, working the quad. Same as above, I started with 2 sets and worked up to 3.

3. While remaining sitting in the chair I would double up the band, bring my knees together and stretch the band across my knees, holding it on either side of my knees. From there I would spread my legs apart, working the muscles on the side of the upper leg (not sure what it is called). I had to double the band up because of how strong they were.

4. The final one didn't use a band, a squeeze exercise. Start at the same position seated in the chair and put something between you knees. I used my fists side to side, but a basketball is a common recommendation. Squeeze your knees together with everything you've got and hold it for 10 s or so.

I did do another exercise of a little bit, where I tied it around my ankle, lay on my back and lifted my leg, basically the same thing as lifting your knees high with weights on your ankles in a horizontal instead of vertical plane. I think that I injured myself a little bit doing it on my right leg, either way soreness from that made running and walking extremely hard, I stopped doing it pretty quickly as I didn't see a positive benefit. It actually still bothers me a little when distance running, though I'm not sure of it is actually an injury or chronic heavy use soreness.

The 4 above though had a major effect on knee soreness over a couple months, taking me from limping to being able to do bodyweight squats. Toward the end the squats were mostly mental (my body telling me my kneecap was going to pop off, my mind telling me that I am fine and squatting will help it feel better) and I started mixing them in. I pretty quickly progressed to being able to do a lot more squats and I stopped doing the resistance band exercises.

[Hermione Gainser]

Yeah, that's kind of my issue too. As I mentioned above, my joints are hyper-mobile, and sometimes it's hard to keep them from doing their own thing. For example, I can bend my hand down and touch my thumb to my inner forearm with no pain. When I try to do lunges, my alignment is always all messed up, and I have a really hard time forcing it.

She's the same way! Stuff just goes wherever the hell it wants!! haha It can definitely be a problem... but I think one you can definitely overcome.

[bigm141414]

She's the same way! Stuff just goes wherever the hell it wants!!

Real life Gumby? That's awesome.

[Silvergamma]

Congratulations on your awesome weight loss success, and your motivation to keep going! Super inspiring !

The most important thing I have found with lifting vs. joints is to really focus on form, go slow, and ramp up intensity over time based on how you are feeling. Resistance/weight training has the potential to be really good for your joints over time as long as you are listening to your body. I sustained a pretty decent shoulder injury in college when I was ski racing, and slow steady compound lifting helped it recover faster, and helped tighten up the muscles around the injury.

Your body is probably still adjusting to your weight loss, and working on strength will help with that adjustment period. All the suggestions above about routines sound right on to me .