Men ONLY please...

[spezzy]

hey guys,

sorry for the late announcement. i fell asleep

http://nerdfitness.com/community/showthread.php?10098-Removal-of-Men-s-Guild

[Guest Snake McClain]

My B. made the connection of majority empowerment vs minority empowerment and forgot about the other unhappy motives involved. Made sense on the surface (to me, at least).

ANYWHO, I'd like a Men's Guild to talk about more dude related stuffs like defending your family or bullying, from a man's perspective. These are things that are seen very differently based on gender, and so are specific.

hey man i tried. lol *shrug*

But it has been successful here in this one thread. My problem with this one thread being the only source and not a guild is that now i have to run all over the place looking for it (because i'm an idiot and still can't get the subscribed thread thing to work for me somehow) instead of going to one section. I understand why it was probably taken away. But i think 1 week isn't enough time to sort it out. sure theyc ould have been more male centric topics but as stated before men who were bullied pretty different and specific to us. but sure maybe it is an OT type discussion. but this one? as mentioned before the opening post of this was for the very purpose the men's guild should have existed. even though sadly i don't think it did. Do i care that there isn't a men's guild now? yes after having one i do a little. will it make me angry about all of this. no. I just don't quite understand it I guess. but it's fine. whatever. If it bothered me I'd treat it like i do anything (or anyone) else. I'd move on and never interact with it any longer. That said, I'm still here and so are you. You vote with your participation.

EDIT: Spezzy in full color now. rad.

[WizardTrip]

Do i care that there isn't a men's guild now? yes after having one i do a little. will it make me angry about all of this. no. I just don't quite understand it I guess. but it's fine. whatever. If it bothered me I'd treat it like i do anything (or anyone) else. I'd move on and never interact with it any longer. That said, I'm still here and so are you. You vote with your participation.

Exactly how I feel

[David Romano]

I am having a bad day, so I am going to overreact to this.

That's fine by me. I'm having a reasonably good day, so I won't overreact to your overreaction. And since it's be nice to lawyers day and I'm a lawyer, you just have to suck it up.

Nobody said "that fitness topics in general are 'always about men so post anywhere'". Well by "nobody" I mean "nobody who wasn't just throwing out anything they could think of as potential reasons the Men's Guild is gone."

That doesn't mean the attitude is any less true, though. My men's group at my church is addressing this; a lot of times when this issue comes up everyone speaks up for the women needing their own space, but the underlying tone is that men so dominate everything that we don't need ours. Well, guess what, I do; I've gone through a lot in my own personal life over the last ten months where I appreciate the company of just my brothers alone without any input from my sisters. The place wasn't even given a chance, and yet Steve and Staci are now prepping up yet *more* stuff for women only, despite the rave reviews the nerd fitness books have gotten from both men and women, and then they decide to take away the men's forum. No, I'm not happy about that.

I don't get what the problem is with the women piping in on topics THEY CAN HELP WITH. To my knowledge most of the women got to those threads and posted there because they just checked "New Posts" and saw a thread they could contribute to without even knowing that it was in the Men's Guild.

This is one of those things you either agree with or you don't. I do not want to take dating advice from a woman in a mens' only forum... If I want dating advice form a woman, I can post it in a general thread in the general forum.

I don't know if you realized, but this community is rapidly growing and, by extension, changing. While this happens things are going to change. Heck the Men's Guild was created without a word, a decent amount of time after Spezzy asked if we wanted it. YES I would prefer for there to have been an explanation and disagree with the decision to delete it without warning but NO I don't see what the big friggin' deal is. Steve and Staci are still finding their feet and forging a scaleable direction for the forums because they rightly see the value of this community. Notice that Steve plugs it in nearly every single post he writes.

Of course Steve plugs a forum associated with his website, which is how he makes his living, every chance he gets; that's common business sense, bro. He has a great product; I have two of the three ebooks and bought a tshirt. I think Steve's advice is great and he's a lot smarter than he sometimes gives himself credit for. I appreciate that. So is Staci, she answered a slew of emails for me while Steve was in South Africa. I don't doubt their dedication, drive, skill, or desire to see this community flourish. I do, however, disagree with the way this situation was handled.

[Philociraptor]

My men's group at my church is addressing this; a lot of times when this issue comes up everyone speaks up for the women needing their own space, but the underlying tone is that men so dominate everything that we don't need ours. Well, guess what, I do; I've gone through a lot in my own personal life over the last ten months where I appreciate the company of just my brothers alone without any input from my sisters.

If any of y'all have ever been in a fraternity, you'll know the value of a vast brotherhood support system.

[spezzy]

Ok, not happy about this, for multiple reasons....

-If the powers that be (spezzy?) didn't like some of the threads in the Men's Guild, there's a difference between shutting a couple of threads down and an entire guild down. Let the thing grow and see where it goes instead of shutting the entire thing down.

-I disagree that men don't need their own space. We do, and we should be allowed to have it, and if the discussions are within the ToS for the site, then there is no reason to tear the whole thing down. I refuse to buy into this notion that men can talk about anything, anywhere, but women have to be protected in some shape, way, or form. Nonsense (and discriminatory as far as I'm concerned). If you *choose* not to avail yourself of it, that's fine, but the option ought to be there.

-No announcement? We just show up one day (yeah, I took Easter weekend off from the interweb), and *poof*, guild is gone, no explanation needed?

Really bothered by this notion.

Again, sorry about the announcement being a few hours late. This was not just my decision, it was a collective decision.

This isn't a women need to be protected issue or a discriminatory issue - it's more from an organizational standpoint. We had the women's guild for a while for the discussion of hormones and periods and there were no complaints. None of the threads in the men's guild were actually men's only topics, or being discussed by men only (except for the physique thread). Every one of those threads belonged in the off topic area - along with the complimentary threads in the women's guild.

Actually, it matters to me. There was something different about NF, and now that there is this big push to create a bunch of stuff for women with the idea that fitness topics in general are "always about men so post anywhere" seems really myopic, especially seeing how many women just swept in and posted in our guild. Add to that the recreation of this place in really silly names and ideas (the "Assassin's Guild"? Really?), I'm wondering whether or not I choose to remain here. I can just as easily subscribe to the blog and call it a day. NF has a great mission, but this decision was a "Fail" as far as I'm concerned.

There is no push to create a bunch of stuff for women. The women's guild has been around for a long time now. And actually, men have posted in the women's guild all along and it was never a "why are the men posting in our guild" thing - their opinions were welcome. It was always an organizational thing.

For this, the silly names? As Tin Man said, they are from this post: http://nerdfitness.com/blog/2010/05/10/real-life-role-playing-what-is-your-profession/ and a direction we are moving with the community and OMFG. If you're against that one, I'm sorry - but it is Nerd Fitness.

I just wanted to say that I agree that this decision, or at least the way that it happened, was a major fail. The more I think about it, the more it bothers me. I'm going to assume that there was a good reason for it, though that reason has yet to be presented. I do think, though, that the arguments akin to "women need a special area to be away from the menfolk" and (as you presented) "fitness topics in general are 'always about men so post anywhere'" are the height of sexism and implies some things about women's roles here that make me sad.

again, I apologize for the late announcement.

We do not believe that women need to be away from the menfolk, or that fitness topics are always about men. The women's guild was originally created as an organizational tool to separate the threads with the topic of actual women's only topics - hormones, pregnancy, periods, etc.

I was going to be finished with this, but this is the third time this has come up - so just one more for me. Maybe I'm just naive, but I thought the attitude around here was not that "fitness topics are about men", but that "fitness topics are about everyone". We have a large, vocal, female presence here - and that's one of the things that makes this place great. That said, there are some female specific issues (hormones, time of month, pregnancy, etc) - and I don't think having a specific spot for those means that the "women need a special area to be away from the menfolk". Men posted in that section before, and I'm sure they will continue to now. It's not about excluding anyone from anywhere - it's just a way to organize the board discussions. I'm surprised that comes off as offensive or sexist to anybody.

Again, I agree that it may not have been handled appropriately, and that at least an announcement was warranted.

Exactly - just for organization.

I am having a bad day, so I am going to overreact to this.

The "silly names and ideas" are from this post. So yes, really. It's NERD Fitness.

Nobody said "that fitness topics in general are 'always about men so post anywhere'". Well by "nobody" I mean "nobody who wasn't just throwing out anything they could think of as potential reasons the Men's Guild is gone."

I don't get what the problem is with the women piping in on topics THEY CAN HELP WITH. To my knowledge most of the women got to those threads and posted there because they just checked "New Posts" and saw a thread they could contribute to without even knowing that it was in the Men's Guild. I get that not as many guys posted in the Women's Guild, but how much do we have to contribute on threads such as "Exercise & Makeup", "Nuva Ring", "Hair Thread", "Sports Bra Recommendations", etc? And if a guy does and pipes in on something in the Women's Guild I don't see any of the women objecting if he has something constructive to say. And what equivalent male topics are there? They exist but are far fewer in number. I think it's much less likely that any of the women would comment on a thread if it was titled "ED and Exercise" or something else very male-specific.

I don't know if you realized, but this community is rapidly growing and, by extension, changing. While this happens things are going to change. Heck the Men's Guild was created without a word, a decent amount of time after Spezzy asked if we wanted it. YES I would prefer for there to have been an explanation and disagree with the decision to delete it without warning but NO I don't see what the big friggin' deal is. Steve and Staci are still finding their feet and forging a scaleable direction for the forums because they rightly see the value of this community. Notice that Steve plugs it in nearly every single post he writes.

I don't think you're overreacting - I agree with everything here. Including the fact that I should have posted the announcement earlier.

[David Romano]

If any of y'all have ever been in a fraternity, you'll know the value of a vast brotherhood support system.

Been there, done that, know the value.

[spezzy]

That doesn't mean the attitude is any less true, though. My men's group at my church is addressing this; a lot of times when this issue comes up everyone speaks up for the women needing their own space, but the underlying tone is that men so dominate everything that we don't need ours. Well, guess what, I do; I've gone through a lot in my own personal life over the last ten months where I appreciate the company of just my brothers alone without any input from my sisters. The place wasn't even given a chance, and yet Steve and Staci are now prepping up yet *more* stuff for women only, despite the rave reviews the nerd fitness books have gotten from both men and women, and then they decide to take away the men's forum. No, I'm not happy about that.

Yeah, we're creating a women's only product - to include things that the current products do not have.

I'm currently working on a workout routine for women who are pregnant - which is something that is not in the regular fitness or strength guides but we've had many requests for. If this is upsetting to you - I'm sorry.

[Thrillho]

If any of y'all have ever been in a fraternity, you'll know the value of a vast brotherhood support system.

*looks around* You're saying there's no more men here for mutual support?

[Knightwatch]

Guys, c'mon. Good points have been made on all sides. This is very, very, very easily something smart and well-meaning people can come down on opposite sides of. It ultimately doesn't matter. Trust that things will work out and that the community will continue to grow and flourish, and go lift something heavy.

And then post about it, so we can offer up fistbumps a'plenty.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Guys, c'mon. Good points have been made on all sides. This is very, very, very easily something smart and well-meaning people can come down on opposite sides of. It ultimately doesn't matter. Trust that things will work out and that the community will continue to grow and flourish, and go lift something heavy.

And then post about it, so we can offer up fistbumps a'plenty.

EXACTLY! I see why people are upset. but i also think it doesn't ultimately matter. we can have our guy talk here....

now back to guy stuff...

Lifting heavy stuff is awesome amiright?

[Thrillho]

I"M GOING TO GO LIFT COUCHES!

...

So I can dust under them.

[Vegemighty]

They took away our guild, but they'll never take away our FREEDOM!!!!

[Thrillho]

[aj_rock]

EXACTLY! I see why people are upset. but i also think it doesn't ultimately matter. we can have our guy talk here....

now back to guy stuff...

Lifting heavy stuff is awesome amiright?

And boobs.

Lifting heavy boobs. DOUBLE WIN

[Guest Snake McClain]

And boobs.

Lifting heavy boobs. DOUBLE WIN

eh. they get too big or heavy and they aren't my thing.

[Damy]

Those heavy boobs would explain CoreyD's erections. And those erections would explain how he's able to hold those weights up in the air in his avatar.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Those heavy boobs would explain CoreyD's erections. And those erections would explain how he's able to hold those weights up in the air in his avatar.

i hadn't considered this. you may be right...

...wait did you just say something about his wife's boobs?

[Guest Snake McClain]

effing awesome.

[David Romano]

Yeah, we're creating a women's only product - to include things that the current products do not have.

I'm currently working on a workout routine for women who are pregnant - which is something that is not in the regular fitness or strength guides but we've had many requests for. If this is upsetting to you - I'm sorry.

It's not a matter of upsetting as much as it is a double standard, IMO.

[spezzy]

It's not a matter of upsetting as much as it is a double standard, IMO.

Is there a situation where there's something missing from the regular guides that would be just for men?

I'm pretty sure there is no male equivalent to pregnancy?

Correct me if I'm wrong here...

[David Romano]

Is there a situation where there's something missing from the regular guides that would be just for men?

I'm pretty sure there is no male equivalent to pregnancy?

Correct me if I'm wrong here...

The double standard comes with product creation and forum enforcement...it is interesting that men get a "one-size" fits all guide designed for BOTH genders despite the fact that one size doesn't fit all and the women's guild was moderated significantly differently from the men's. It's what you're promoting on the forum.

[Thrillho]

eh. they get too big or heavy and they aren't my thing.

Allow me to help you with those

[gerbilOFdoom]

The double standard comes with product creation and forum enforcement...it is interesting that men get a "one-size" fits all guide despite the fact that one size doesn't fit all and the women's guild was moderated significantly differently from the men's. It's what you're promoting on the forum.

I'd say you're wrong here. The forum doesn't exist to promote gender equality, it exists to promote nerd fitness. Should the men's guild be brought back? Yes, because it has the potential to be very useful. It's the job of the moderator to lock topics that wander too far off topic. But this thread isn't the place for this discussion...

[Artinum]

I'd say you're wrong here. The forum doesn't exist to promote gender equality, it exists to promote nerd fitness. Should the men's guild be brought back? Yes, because it has the potential to be very useful. It's the job of the moderator to lock topics that wander too far off topic. But this thread isn't the place for this discussion...

I think the objection is that the place for this discussion has been removed!