Friendzones, Nice Guys, Geek Girls, Nerdy Romance Stuff

[scarletleavy]

A lot of people run when the fire fizzles out, and real love is required.

When your SO has to deal with illness, grief, depression, anxiety, etc and you are left holding down the universe while they can do nothing for you, and you stay and push through and care for them, lose sleep at night, push them to get the help they need, and fight for what you've built together, even when they aren't fighting with you...that is love.

I have been on both sides of this love personally, and I've seen it in action in others' lives as well. When you finally break through all the anger, resentfulness, pride, rebelliousness and grief, there on the other side of those dark clouds lies the most beautiful, satisfying love you will ever experience.

It's the kind of love you see in old people's faces, the ones who die of broken hearts when their SO passes away. They've spent so many years giving of themselves for another person, that when the other one goes, their heart can't bear not to follow.

It's an all-encompassing love. There plenty of fire and passion to go with it, but even without all that, it's real and deep and final...and becoming more and more rare.

This was really great to read. I hope I can find this some day.

[morethanjustamom]

This was really great to read. I hope I can find this some day.

I hope all of you do...there's nothing like it in the world.

[Arashi]

I also get frustrated with it in other ways sometimes. My first relationship lasted two years and became very serious - he actually bought a house and a car out in the burbs, waiting for me to finish college. (Protip: don't do that.) He was a very nice guy. Too nice. Boring-nice. Devoted-puppy-nice. Never-disagree-with-the-girlfriend nice. I am a dynamic person who likes to have interesting conversations. It didn't work. They went

Boyfriend: "I read this thing in the news and it is kind of interesting for this reason."

Me: "Interesting, but I disagree with your conclusion."

Boyfriend: "Oh, okay. You're probably right."

ARGH. This very shy, geeky guy was just so glad to have a girlfriend (a rather intelligent, very geeky, fairly popular girlfriend if I do say so myself) that he was just a complete pushover in absolutely everything to avoid making me upset with him. And seeing him prepare for the next 50 years of that, when I was an adventurous young person who had a lot more I wanted to do, made me break up with him. On the one hand, it was like kicking a puppy. On the other, he was trying to install me into a life in the middle english suburbs as a school teacher with a house and 2.5 kids at age 20. (And instantly made me feel better by asking if we could still have sex after we broke up.) So word to the wise: if you're an actual nice guy, that's great. But don't be that kind of desperate puppy.

</rant>

I've had one like that, too. Military academy, wants to marry as soon as he graduates type. Wanted me to wear a promise ring after three months of dating. I was 17. Ugh, no! I mean, the guys follows me around for ages, listens to my rants about how I hate when people get clingy and possessive instead of just enjoying their time together, about how I hate public demonstrations of ownership and the culture of she's/he's mine, and then wants me to wear a promise ring that, I'd told him, represents exactly that? Oh, I live in the academy all the time and she's alone in the big bad city, so if she wears my ring, everyone will know she's taken.

Protip: rings are serious business. They are not a dog's collar, OK? That was one of the things that proved to me that he didn't see me, but a fantasy version of me who was just dying to embark on this suburb fantasy you mentioned, Gwen.

About never disagreeing: my sister always complains that her boyfriend never seems to have a strong opinion about anything. That he just agrees with everything she says. He probably thinks he's being considerate (though I can't imagine how he reached that conclusion), she thinks he's being patronizing. Telling the other person that he or she is right the whole time makes you a look like a condescending moron who just wants your SO to shut up already. And nothing ruins a relationship faster that not listening to the other person.

[bigm141414]

Boyfriend: "I read this thing in the news and it is kind of interesting for this reason."

Me: "Interesting, but I disagree with your conclusion."

Boyfriend: "Oh, okay. You're probably right."

Hah! I've found that if a girl can't stand a 3 hour long discussion/argument/debate then it's really not worth it. Bonus points if the debate leads to storming off to grab thick bound books to prove points.

[Arashi]

Hah! I've found that if a girl can't stand a 3 hour long discussion/argument/debate then it's really not worth it. Bonus points if the debate leads to storming off to grab thick bound books to prove points.

I know, right? I mean, if the person just agrees to get you to shut up... dude, what are you doing with this person?

[Strawberry Squatcake]

I have nothing real to contribute to this other because I've officially taken myself out of the dating game. No, seriously. So I'm a little bitter and disenchanted.

But, let me say this for those guys who think they're in the friend zone: Many girls don't realize you're interested so they don't look at you that way. I don't know why it's that way, and I know that's a generalization. I always assumed we get in a comfort zone, enjoy it, and never question it. In many cases, all you have to do is suggest the idea and then walk away from it. If you're good friends there's a decent shot she'll start to look at you differently after the suggestion. In fact, you will probably visually notice her observing you differently. Let it fester a little and see where it goes. Many of the best relationships I know are couples who were friends for years before dating. And in almost all cases one person took the leap. Most often a subtle suggestion.

But be warned, it's risky business. I've never stayed friends with an ex. So, for me, taking the risk with a friend is only worth it if both sides are actually interested.

That's all I've got! Best of luck to all of you love-seeking springtime friskies!

[ZenGwen]

I've had one like that, too. Military academy, wants to marry as soon as he graduates type. Wanted me to wear a promise ring after three months of dating. I was 17. Ugh, no! I mean, the guys follows me around for ages, listens to my rants about how I hate when people get clingy and possessive instead of just enjoying their time together, about how I hate public demonstrations of ownership and the culture of she's/he's mine, and then wants me to wear a promise ring that, I'd told him, represents exactly that? Oh, I live in the academy all the time and she's alone in the big bad city, so if she wears my ring, everyone will know she's taken.

Protip: rings are serious business. They are not a dog's collar, OK? That was one of the things that proved to me that he didn't see me, but a fantasy version of me who was just dying to embark on this suburb fantasy you mentioned, Gwen.

About never disagreeing: my sister always complains that her boyfriend never seems to have a strong opinion about anything. That he just agrees with everything she says. He probably thinks he's being considerate (though I can't imagine how he reached that conclusion), she thinks he's being patronizing. Telling the other person that he or she is right the whole time makes you a look like a condescending moron who just wants your SO to shut up already. And nothing ruins a relationship faster that not listening to the other person.

Oh man. Sympathy. It's like... they're in love with the concept of a girlfriend, but not with the grilfriend, and their concept doesn't match up with what the reality is anyway. And yeah, one of the things that makes me really confident about my current boyfriend is that neither of us really see the point of rings. If we get married, we'll get some, sure. Just cheap ones. We'd rather spend the "expensive rings and huge wedding" money on the down payment for a home together. (Keyword: together.)

Hah! I've found that if a girl can't stand a 3 hour long discussion/argument/debate then it's really not worth it. Bonus points if the debate leads to storming off to grab thick bound books to prove points.

Yes! This! You should see the boyfriend and I debate. Especially now that I've been going to the gym. He'll call my logical fallacies, I'll ask for citations, one of us ends up throwing the other bodily out of bed. It's pretty awesome.

[Arashi]

Oh man. Sympathy. It's like... they're in love with the concept of a girlfriend, but not with the grilfriend, and their concept doesn't match up with what the reality is anyway. And yeah, one of the things that makes me really confident about my current boyfriend is that neither of us really see the point of rings. If we get married, we'll get some, sure. Just cheap ones. We'd rather spend the "expensive rings and huge wedding" money on the down payment for a home together. (Keyword: together.).

Yes! I mean, you know the girl for years, you know she's not into PDAs or grand gestures, you know she feels downright uncomfortable with those, and all you do is grand gestures? Wake up and smell the caramel macchiato, will ya?

You ever watched Stargate SG-1? Sam Carter has a boyfriend who does the house thing in season 8. (spoiler for season 8 ahead) Just takes her out someday and says 'bought a house, perfect for family and dog'. In his defense, he buys a house which matches what she described once as her dream house - so he listened to her -, but he buys the damn house without consulting her first. And from the look in her eyes when she hears the dog part, it's not really something they had discussed.

[So Late So Soon]

I can't really say much about this because I've never had a girlfriend or been friend zoned, But my sister told me one time that "if you ever like a girl you may as well tell her because the worst thing that will happen is she says no." It seemed relevant.

[weirdquark]

I'm not sure I understand the "panic" about the friendzone.

Why can't men and women be friends without the prospect of a relationship looming ahead?

These are two different things though -- the problem people have with the "friendzone" is that one person wants to be more than friends and other other person doesn't. If both people just want to be friends, then there's no problem. And sometimes people do start dating after being friends -- I've done this with the people that I've dated. But I've also been friends with people who were interested in women but who weren't interested in me in "that way" (and I was also not interested in them) and so there was never any expectation on either side of being anything other than friends.

[Arashi]

These are two different things though -- the problem people have with the "friendzone" is that one person wants to be more than friends and other other person doesn't. If both people just want to be friends, then there's no problem. And sometimes people do start dating after being friends -- I've done this with the people that I've dated. But I've also been friends with people who were interested in women but who weren't interested in me in "that way" (and I was also not interested in them) and so there was never any expectation on either side of being anything other than friends.

I think the problem is that a lot of guys (I'm sure this happens with women too, but I see it most often with guys, so it's my experience) only befriend a girl in order to start a relationship with her later on. And then are upset when the girl doesn't return their affections. Being someone's friend is not a guarantee they will fall in love with you. I think that was Scarletheavy's point - it's not a game, so you won't be allowed access to the next level (lovers) just because you were nice in the first level (friends).

[bigm141414]

Yes! This! You should see the boyfriend and I debate. Especially now that I've been going to the gym. He'll call my logical fallacies, I'll ask for citations, one of us ends up throwing the other bodily out of bed. It's pretty awesome.

Why do I picture cage match wrestling when I read this....

And in this corner standing 5'6" tall with green hair!! The terror of the English! ZenGwen!!!!!!

[AKLulu]

I recommend.... talking. I know it's scary, but if I was even minutely attracted to a guy who thought I had "friendzoned" him, and he told me, I'd probably consider him. I'm not afraid to say "I'm sorry, I don't like you that way," but you'll never know until you ask. Me and one of my good guy friends just had this discussion not too long ago. We've been friends for... 7 or 8 years now, but haven't always lived near each other. Now we hang out pretty often, he talks about girls he likes, I talk about guys I like, but I've never really considered dating him because I was pretty sure he wasn't attracted to me that way. He's never had a girlfriend, so his other friends are always trying to "push" him on people (including me). So finally we talked about it. I asked him if he'd ever liked me like that, he said no. I said the same. Win! Don't have to worry! Now we can continue going to movies and playing video games to our hearts' content!

[ZenGwen]

Yes! I mean, you know the girl for years, you know she's not into PDAs or grand gestures, you know she feels downright uncomfortable with those, and all you do is grand gestures? Wake up and smell the caramel macchiato, will ya?

You ever watched Stargate SG-1? Sam Carter has a boyfriend who does the house thing in season 8. (spoiler for season 8 ahead) Just takes her out someday and says 'bought a house, perfect for family and dog'. In his defense, he buys a house which matches what she described once as her dream house - so he listened to her -, but he buys the damn house without consulting her first. And from the look in her eyes when she hears the dog part, it's not really something they had discussed.

Ungh. And how many girls just go through with it because they're used to the guy and like him well enough and they don't want to be the bitch in the situation...

Why do I picture cage match wrestling when I read this....

And in this corner standing 5'6" tall with green hair!! The terror of the English! ZenGwen!!!!!!

Ahahaha. Pretty much. 'Cept I'm 5'3", when I stand up real straight.

[scarletleavy]

I think the problem is that a lot of guys (I'm sure this happens with women too, but I see it most often with guys, so it's my experience) only befriend a girl in order to start a relationship with her later on. And then are upset when the girl doesn't return their affections. Being someone's friend is not a guarantee they will fall in love with you. I think that was Scarletheavy's point - it's not a game, so you won't be allowed access to the next level (lovers) just because you were nice in the first level (friends).

This is exactly what I meant with my original comment. You shouldn't become friends with a girl just so you can get in her pants. That's not the goal of friendship. It's true that a lot of successful relationships evolve from friendships, but you shouldn't go into a friendship expecting that to happen and then get disappointed/angry, etc when it doesn't work out as planned.

[Arashi]

This is exactly what I meant with my original comment. You shouldn't become friends with a girl just so you can get in her pants. That's not the goal of friendship. It's true that a lot of successful relationships evolve from friendships, but you shouldn't go into a friendship expecting that to happen and then get disappointed/angry, etc when it doesn't work out as planned.

Scarlet, did you read the 'nice guy' rant (it's the livejournal link) in the first post of this thread? It is all about that (with a side dish of basic hygiene is BASIC, not a perk).

[scarletleavy]

Scarlet, did you read the 'nice guy' rant (it's the livejournal link) in the first post of this thread? It is all about that (with a side dish of basic hygiene is BASIC, not a perk).

I did, excellent reading.

There's also some good blog posts about Nice Guys on Pandagon

[Bumblebee4]

Hah! I've found that if a girl can't stand a 3 hour long discussion/argument/debate then it's really not worth it. Bonus points if the debate leads to storming off to grab thick bound books to prove points.

Bigm where have you been all my life? I attract guys who "seem" to be this way at the beginning and they say that they love that I'm sassy and opinionated and strong willed but then I find they were really only attracted to that side of me because they are passive wimps who admire my qualities but have no clue what to do with me. Strong men (both physically and mentally) are so hard to find!

[bigm141414]

Ahahaha. Pretty much. 'Cept I'm 5'3", when I stand up real straight.

Hmm you seem taller on the inter net

Bigm where have you been all my life?

Right here of course

[Bumblebee4]

Right here of course

Ahhh yes of course you were. Now I'm off to see if my Google Maps has any clue when I type in Bigm141414

[GreenEyesBright]

Can I say I love this thread? Cause I do. Y'all crack me up!

Go Big or Go Home! Sent from my Atrix using Tapatalk.

[bprime]

I've had more girls fall for me (want to date me) when I've been a sarcastic, drunken asshole whose main objective was just getting them in bed.

When I've toned down all those "qualities", and tried to get to know the girl, I've struck out more times than I can remember.

One day I'll figure this thing out...

[Book]

Well, at least this thread might be pointing out some of the many, many things I've been doing wrong all these years.

[Guest Gemeaux]

I've had more girls fall for me (want to date me) when I've been a sarcastic, drunken asshole whose main objective was just getting them in bed.

When I've toned down all those "qualities", and tried to get to know the girl, I've struck out more times than I can remember.

One day I'll figure this thing out...

Because those girls are insecure , they think they can " change " you . I can't explain it either really .

[Bumblebee4]

I've had more girls fall for me (want to date me) when I've been a sarcastic, drunken asshole whose main objective was just getting them in bed.

When I've toned down all those "qualities", and tried to get to know the girl, I've struck out more times than I can remember.

One day I'll figure this thing out...

And from the flip side of the coin...

When we as girls actually act interested in a guy they have no interest any longer even if they did to begin with. But when I act like I could care less if the guy calls or wants to see me again he's all over me. Unfortunately that means that the guys we are truly not interested in seem to call and want to go out all the time.