Another philosophical question - fight body type or go with it

[Good Row G]

Since coming to NF I've realized that some of my assumptions about working out are wrong. Gone back to working out 4 months ago, and my body's getting stronger and happier. I'm dialing in what my body wants to do. Still need to drop some excess weight, which I'm now committed to and in process.

My daily exercises are general (push-up, sit-up, squat). What I'm finding is I'm building lots of big muscle. I'm at peace with having bigger arms than my husband, but have noticed some muscles that I've never seen on a woman. Chest cleavage starting at the collar bone. Sometime recently I've sprouted trapezius wings.

I'm strong and healthy and committed to continuing what I'm doing. I understand that some of the demands from my bodyweight moves will be lessened when I lose 30 lbs and at the same time I'll be able to do more.

I could embrace the body composition changes further if I thought I was bringing out my physical nature, my own intrinsic ideal, rather than working hard to get a bulging neck.

How much should I tailor my work-outs to match the look I'd like? When should we ignore the look and focus on performance? In my dreams I want to complete the 300 workout and row a 7 min 2K. The easy answer is just do what you want to do and don't worry about looks. Which is how I'm leaning. But I don't want to look like a male marine.

How much do you tweak your workout for aesthetics?

[Morrigainz]

Not at all. You can't fight your genetics.

An oft-repeated phrase around here: "Appearance is a result of fitness."

[ETFnerd]

go with it... it all starts with loving yourself for who you are... everything emanates from that thought... there are bodybuilders that have 5% bf b*tching all the time b/c they don't have 4%... pshhh... there are more important things in life... feel free to experiment with different things like cardio or strength training, but be mindful that body image psychological issues are real and you should be aware of issues if they come up..

99.9% of women can't look like male marines without steroids... it just won't happen... and a lot of women try... on purpose...

i tell everyone... you are beautiful the way you are... but there is room for improvement on the health side of the ledger...

[Good Row G]

My grandmother had a saying for anyone (in our small house) that saw her naked: if you aren't built like me, you're not built right. Got it, Nana.

Sorry to be such a dumb-ass. You guys helped me figure it out. On the one hand I love my strength gains. I'm doing 50 push-ups a day now, full on military style! In two sets, 30 then 20. That's one rep off my PR when I was 16 and competing internationally in flatwater kayaking. Woot, woot! And my abs are killer, although blanketed in fat at the moment.

For my family, which is full of awesome athletes, I'm just what I should be. Big yes, but shapely and strong. What's gotten in my head is living with my husband. Who's not small, but is the biggest member of a much smaller tribe. We're compatible, yes, but from very different species.

But my species is better , and more important, is mine. I forgot I had a tribe. When I look in the mirror or buy clothes, I'll try to do them with a Goodrow eye. I'll keep being proud of my monster feats, and shooting for my goals. 5 pull-ups in a row by September!

Go-go NF!

[Good Row G]

An oft-repeated phrase around here: "Appearance is a result of fitness."

Guess I was mulling over the fine tuning of the phrase. In broad strokes, Fat G looks like this and strong G looks like that. Easy. But how much of a difference is there between fit-for-competitive-rowing G and pilates-master G? Which is more my nature, phenotypically speaking? If for cultural reasons, I prefer the look of pilates-G (purely for example), should I ditch the push-ups?

I've generally embraced the looks-be-damned, performance-is-everything outlook. There are things I know I can do, things I want to do, so I'll do them and be proud. But before going too far along that road, I wanted to contemplate the choice.

My conclusion is that fit G is tall and muscled. The difference between fit-for-this and fit-for-that is fine enough that I don't really need to worry about whether doing this exercise or that will be radically different. OK, I have traps where I didn't have them before. They are feminine for my species. Cool.

[Morrigainz]

I think that fit-G, to some extent, is going to look like fit-G no matter what kind of exercise you are doing. I mean you can work your muscles, or choose not to work them, but you can't decide in which manner they grow or atrophy. I think there are finer points of fitness....like for weight lifting, you can do high reps or low reps, but they'll produce different results. But that doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get the kind of results you desire if your genes aren't programmed.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I tried for the past few months to tailor my workouts and diet to what i wanted to look like. I wanted to drop BF and be a 225 lb 10% BF beach hunk. That's not what my body want to be. I'm always going to have 18+% of fat on me I think, at least until I can get the muscle mass that needs 2800 kcal to support it and the extra fat has nothing to sustain it. Still, I doubt I'll ever have visible abs or be able to sustain sub 15% BF.

You know what? Over the last month or two I've come to terms with that. My body wants to be big and strong, screw how much extra fat there is. I'm going to eat 3000+ kcal a day and build muscle with compound lifts. Where ever that takes me, so be it. With the fitness regimen I'm going to be on with compound lifting interspersed with short runs, I don't care what my body comp is, I'll be fit.

[Roflhouse]

I entirely second these points about body acceptance. Out of interest though, how relaxed are your shoulders? Tight traps make you seem to have shoulders up near your ears and this might be contributing to what you see in the mirror. Foam roller or lacrosse balls could help. Or try a massage then look in the mirror?

[Good Row G]

Tight traps make you seem to have shoulders up near your ears and this might be contributing to what you see in the mirror.

Exactly right. Overtraining and over-stretching made my shoulders a bit inflamed, and looked bigger than they actually are. Yes, i have muscles where none existed before, but I look less like the hulk when I'm not flexing in the mirror and give the shoulders a chance to rest up.

London privateer, Rolfhouse? Ah, just finished Patrick O'Brian a few months ago and I still miss Jack Aubrey. Those books he is an official privateer were the best. I'd run away to sea with him!

[andygates]

I'm with Corey, and I'd gone all the way to the edge of eating disorders before finally getting it. I say viva Athena.

[ETFnerd]

i kinda disagree with Corey... i think he just hasn't traveled the road far enough... give it 2-3 years of consistent, honest hard work, and who knows what athlete is lurking inside his body... yearning to be free...

the key is to try hard and make decisions that are good for you consistently... that best you is in there... and we're all trying to draw that out... whatever that is...

love you today... and you will still love you when you get to where you wanna be...

[Book]

I'll go with the guys here, and maybe go even a step further. You are rare, and in a very amazing way, which makes you special.

I know that personally, when I'm hanging out at Track meets, it's not the long-distance runners that *I'm* looking at.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I'm with Corey, and I'd gone all the way to the edge of eating disorders before finally getting it. I say viva Athena.

agreed. I like fit muscular women. or the way they look. do you know jamie eason? she has traps. and chesty muscles but still is very very feminine. and hot. nothing wrong with that. athletic women rev my engines. and a lot of guys. it would take loads of testosterone for you to look manly. more than you can ever produce on your own. I say do what you feel like doing and go with it. you'll be happy in the end.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

i kinda disagree with Corey... i think he just hasn't traveled the road far enough... give it 2-3 years of consistent, honest hard work, and who knows what athlete is lurking inside his body... yearning to be free...

I was an athlete in high school. And even then, I never had abs where others did. I'll be an athlete again and I'm not saying sub 10% body fat isn't achievable, it is. It's just going to take much more work for me than for others because my body seems genetically predisposed to want to hold a certain amount of fat in key areas.

Personally, I'd rather take all that extra effort and put it into lifting more or running faster/farther than put it into creating a body image that isn't just my natural spot. Will I eventually cut a bit to drop some fat? Sure. But dropping fat is no longer toward the top of my list for goals.

[ETFnerd]

that seems to be the most sensible way of going about it...

i think you'l take it much further than you did in HS...

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

i think you'l take it much further than you did in HS...

My weights already all far exceed what I did in high school. haven't gotten back to that 7 minute mile yet though.

[wildross]

+1 for going with the genes. I'm with corey, even in high school at 6', 180, 44" chest and 32" waist I did not look cut. I've stopped fighting it .

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[morethanjustamom]

+1 for going with the genes. I'm with corey, even in high school at 6', 180, 44" chest and 32" waist I did not look cut. I've stopped fighting it .

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

My husband has this exact build, and while he looks good, healthy, and fit, he's not what I would call cut either.

I'm ok with that. He looks sexy to me.

[notanartmajor]

I second (third, fourth, whatever) the other opinions; embrace your muscles, I very much doubt you'll get any complaints. Don't worry about looking like a man; you won't.

"The vast majority of women cannot get large, masculine muscles from barbell training. If it were that easy, I would have them... Women who do look like men have taken some rather drastic steps in that direction that have little to do with their exercise program." ~ Mark Rippetoe

[oystergirl]

When i was a girl, I was a ballerina and I was training professionally and then, bam, I got an ass and boobs and I was no longer a ballerina...

You absolutely cannot fight genetics. If you do your best, doing things you enjoy doing and your body feels good and healthy then you will acheive your best fitness level and body will reflect that. No matter how much I try, there is no way I am gonna get rid of my muscular nature, like you have. Even if I completely changed up my workout it would only make me unhappy because my muscles and my body do not LIKE to do other things. They like to swim, do gymnastics, dance, lift weights, hike and do yoga. If you put me on a treadmill to run or a stair master or in a step class I would puke on you--

Do what you LOVE and your body will thank you by being its own unique beautiful self....hugs!

[Zorch]

I was an athlete in high school. And even then, I never had abs where others did. I'll be an athlete again and I'm not saying sub 10% body fat isn't achievable, it is. It's just going to take much more work for me than for others because my body seems genetically predisposed to want to hold a certain amount of fat in key areas.

Personally, I'd rather take all that extra effort and put it into lifting more or running faster/farther than put it into creating a body image that isn't just my natural spot. Will I eventually cut a bit to drop some fat? Sure. But dropping fat is no longer toward the top of my list for goals.

I've found the same. When I was heavier, I was all about losing weight for aesthetic reasons. As I've gotten leaner - even though my body isn't perfect, my focus has shifted much more towards performance, as well as what is healthiest for me over the long term. I'm trying to lean out more right now as part of an experiment to understand my body's capabilities and limitations, more than for any aesthetic/body image reason.

I think there's a lot to be said for doing what you enjoy, trying your best to be healthy, and all the while accepting that your body type will be good at some things, but not so good at others.

[Waldo]

IDK, I know my body doesn't naturally grow muscles at a high rate, but I can pretty much control (or choose not to) my fat amount to any amount I want. My body doesn't seem to naturally hold a low BF% while a couch potato, but I had no issues getting to a low BF%. Made smart diet choices and kept at it, and stuck to a heavy exercise workload.

[Roflhouse]

Exactly right. Overtraining and over-stretching made my shoulders a bit inflamed, and looked bigger than they actually are. Yes, i have muscles where none existed before, but I look less like the hulk when I'm not flexing in the mirror and give the shoulders a chance to rest up.

London privateer, Rolfhouse? Ah, just finished Patrick O'Brian a few months ago and I still miss Jack Aubrey. Those books he is an official privateer were the best. I'd run away to sea with him!

I need to read the Patrick O'Brian books, I only watched the film, which I really enjoyed. Ah, seaman.

Anyway, I want to completely echo that the body you're discovering is beautiful (and I'm sure you were lovely before, let's not go down self-hatred alley)-

However as you specifically mentioned shoulders, and because I think this area of the body is what some women mean when they talk about bulkiness, I've been trying for the last hour to upload photos showing how I can change how my upper back looks based on if I hunch and flex or if I bring my shoulders down and back. I think I can get about an inch and a half difference by shoulder position - for example look at Andygates's picture - I think he can make his shoulders look very different too by rolling them forwards or back.

With regards to your question, I think your build is genetically defined but you can have variation around that. Its easier for some people to put on muscle than others, similarly some people put on fat easier than others. I think its completely OK whatever look you decide you prefer. As you say some appearances are more culturally popular than others, but I think making your appearance contingent on other's opinion is just a road to ruin. Everyone has different opinions and its always possible to criticise. If you find something that makes you happy go with it.