Why is everyone here so obsessed with the paleo diet?

[jdanger]

This is a pretty ridiculous straw man argument, particularly when I clarify right after the part you quoted that adherance is extremely important when it comes to selecting a successful diet.

That's not a straw man. It's a real person who contradicts your own suggestion of "hit some calorie requirements and then fill it in with ice cream". The point was to demonstrate that this sort of approach doesn't always work and with your stated past, you understand that. And yeah, adherence is paramount. And when calorie counting doesn't help towards that end it is extraneous at best. Waldo would agree, CICO is going to work its magic whether you track it or not.

First of all you don't know anything about me or my past experiences. Secondly, there's a particular 'eating issue' that I myself suffer from when I let my emotions get the best of me. It's called binge eating (drinking as well). Setting up limits on my intake but still giving myself room for some flexibility does most certainly help me deal with that, and help me take some measure of control over my unhealthy relationship with food. Or I could just make some high handed remark with 0 backing as well and say that you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about when it comes to dealing with that sort of an ailment. Does it work for everyone? No. That's why I qualified that:

Sorry to hear that and fair enough but again, you are you. You know what works for you. Unless you are counseling or otherwise mentoring people on nutrition you really have no experiential basis to say anything about what works for anyone other than yourself. I don't have all the answers but I have that experience.

[bigm141414]

Because in order to promote and market the other option, people wherther creators or adherants spread bad, uninformed, deceptive, etc... information. Just look at the ongoing ripples that Taubes' alternate theory have (which are strongly interlaced with paleo in places). I mean a bet a solid 75% of people trying to lose weight think that your body will turn the sugar in a cookie into fat, this is not true at all, and is a creation of the low carb rhetoric (a reaction to eating fat will make you fat, what the gov't pushed, and what is actually scientifically factual).

You realize Taubes' book is geared towards those with metabolic syndrome right? He doesn't really discuss people with healthy and normal metabolisms. And no not all the sugar will turn into fat, depends on how much and how well your system handles it. (Whoo, individuality!)

This is not 'Nam Smokey, there are rules. Every system is bound by rules, and those rules are quantifyable. Every system can be controlled. The body is no different. Every "diet" out there markets themselves as breaking the rules, or in some cases, redefining the rules (healthiness as in not measuarable by fitness or appearance for example). CI/CO are simply rules of the system.

To clarify: CICO is a portion of the rules that govern the system. To say an organism as complex as the human body and with as many compensatory mechanisms is bound by this one rule is absurd.

When people say that it doesn't work or that there is more to it than that, the problem is not the system nor lacking some voodoo combination of magical ingredients; it is more often than not user error, a failure to control the system. Much the way my mother-in-law is always firmly conviced their computer is broken, the system is fine, the user doesn't know how to use it.

This can be said the same of your argument. When people cry that there is a systemic issue (metabolic problems) and get ignored because others are biased into believing it is that persons fault instead of looking into the issue. How is that helpful? Sure, sometimes it is that person's fault. But a lot of the time there may be something seriously wrong and we're just shaming the affected into silence because, after all, its their fault for over eating.

[jdanger]

Paleoish's power right now is every bit as big as Atkins was at the height of its power, if not bigger. I say paleoish since much larger than strict paleo is the idea of "eating clean", a more moderate form of it (Primal for example is a clean eating moderate form).

This has nothing to do with being on a fitness website. A majority of people I interact with between work and elsewhere non-fitness that are trying to lose weight (esp at work A LOT of people talk to me) are trying to do so via some variant of Paleo. I think that you are underestimating its reach, it has grown exponentially in the last year and is every bit as big as any diet fad has been in the last couple decades. Do some people watching at grocery stores if you are unconvinced (this is quite an amusing way to pass the time while there).

I'm going to disagree. I think your perception is off. The population of the US is what, 310 million people? You maybe talk to, let's be generous, say 200 of them. How meaningful is that really? Do ya one better, grab a clipboard and survey people as they go into the grocery store. See what percentage of them knows (or thinks they know) what "paleo" is.

[bigm141414]

I'm going to disagree. I think your perception is off. The population of the US is what, 310 million people? You maybe talk to, let's be generous, say 200 of them. How meaningful is that really? Do ya one better, grab a clipboard and survey people as they go into the grocery store. See what percentage of them knows (or thinks they know) what "paleo" is.

And even if they do know, how many people actually follow it? Or treat it with anything but skepticism that they treat all such "fad" diets. If it cracks 1% of the US population I'd be shocked.

[MMyers]

I know I'm a little late to the party, but...

If somebody tries to live a way you don't agree with, then offer your encouragement, maybe a little advice on how you would do it and then move on... like:

"Hey, I know you're really digging the Paleo diet, but I personally think that the main thing, and the thing that will bring you the most success, is CICO- Calories In and Calories Out. Maybe you should try tracking calories on -Your Calorie Tracker Here- and see if that gets you a little closer to your goal. I personally don't think you have to cut grains out completely, so it might be worth checking out if you miss bread, pasta, etc...."

And, alternatively:

"Hey, I know you're having success tracking calories, but I think you could make a lot more progress eating a little similar to the Paleo diet. It's kind of the idea that foods found in nature are healthiest, and it may help you with -Your Ailment Here-. I personally believe that the quality of food matters most, so it might be worth looking into if you're interested."

It seems like, compared to when I first joined the forum, the main goal of people here now is to just "correct" instead of offer support, but, regardless, can we please stop making a big deal about how people choose to live their lives now, and the self-victimization, ie: "NF is mostly Paleo, woe is me...".

~Signed,

Just had a cup of Moose Tracks ice cream and a Twisted Tea after work, going to have a slice or two of pizza, and probably a half dozen scrambled eggs after my workout. (Friday isn't that great nutrition wise... but it's Friday! )

[Kewilson]

I'm really only 80% Paleo... maybe 90% on a good week. My main reasons for going Paleo (ish) are...

1) The premise (eat what your presumably not-morbidly-obese stone age ancestors ate) seems simple and compelling.

2) My initial literature search didn't show it to be obviously wrong or hazardous in any way.

3) I find it's easier to maintain a calories deficit on Paleo than not, and definitely easier to control sugar intake. If you accept the insulin hypothesis (and it sounds plausible to me), your diet will pretty much look Paleo (ish) even if you're not intentionally forcing it to be Paleo.

4) I used to follow the conventional diet and I kept getting fatter every year. Same applied to basically all my family/friends. Paleo basically says "do the opposite of that". I've heard worse ideas than do the opposite of a plan the ends in abject failure.

[Brah]

What have I done?! I really was interested in why paleo is so much more popular here than it is amongst other forums I've seen. I didn't mean to spark a giant debate! Realistically, I think a lot of the "paleo" approved foods are foods that I eat in my diet. Somebody said something about 13 twinkies in regards to CI/CO. Keep in mind, I keep my macros, or at least... my protein macro, pretty consistent.

I was thinking I might lose a couple pounds before school.. But given my rather naive support of CI/CO, I've decided to play guinea pig until school. I'll be cutting on roughly:

2702 cal

250 g protein

250 g carbs

78 g fat

The carbs/fat my vary. I'll be having McDoubles and lots of anti-paleo food everyday. Hopefully I won't have a heart attack. 5 weeks, actually started yesterday... 4 McDoubles down already. IIFYM, don't fail me now!

[bigm141414]

Hey experimentation is encouraged around here. Good luck with it and let us know how ti goes

[MMyers]

What have I done?! I really was interested in why paleo is so much more popular here than it is amongst other forums I've seen. I didn't mean to spark a giant debate! Realistically, I think a lot of the "paleo" approved foods are foods that I eat in my diet. Somebody said something about 13 twinkies in regards to CI/CO. Keep in mind, I keep my macros, or at least... my protein macro, pretty consistent.

I was thinking I might lose a couple pounds before school.. But given my rather naive support of CI/CO, I've decided to play guinea pig until school. I'll be cutting on roughly:

2702 cal

250 g protein

250 g carbs

78 g fat

The carbs/fat my vary. I'll be having McDoubles and lots of anti-paleo food everyday. Hopefully I won't have a heart attack. 5 weeks, actually started yesterday... 4 McDoubles down already. IIFYM, don't fail me now!

Nice, good luck Brah. I had to look up IIFYM, look's pretty cool.

[Sphynx]

What have I done?!

You've mislabeled this post. A more appropriate title may have been: Prepare Flamethrowers! Or my personal favorite:

GRENADE!!!!!

Don't worry, you just kinda stepped on a landmine there. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InternetBackdraft

[rtalencar]

Sorry to hear that and fair enough but again, you are you. You know what works for you. Unless you are counseling or otherwise mentoring people on nutrition you really have no experiential basis to say anything about what works for anyone other than yourself. I don't have all the answers but I have that experience.

Mostly what Athena said, but just because you don't think I have the same level of experience that you do doesn't immediately invalidate my points. At no time have I said that following a Paleo paradigm was bad or that it wouldn't work for people. In fact all I said was that my diet style can and does work for some (NOT all) people. Given your apparent background you should know that to be true as well. You're emphasizing examples where my diet does not work, and I never said at ANY point it would work for everybody. That's the very definition of a straw man argument.

And for the record, as the result of my success with weight loss and fitness some friends and family have approached me to help them with their diets. It's not a great many people (around 20), but I do have some experience tailoring diet and fitness goals to individuals other than myself.

[Wicked Pixie]

This thread makes me sad. NF is the most supportive place I've ever found!

IMHO NF is a place of self discovery and self experimentation. We can all learn from each other to level up our lives and help fellow rebels level up theirs!

Do your research, ask questions, listen to the answers you get and make your own decision about how to proceed.

I've never felt 'pushed' into one camp or another, I've only found people eager to share their successes and failures to help me along my journey.

/back to your arguing if you must...

[erawka]

+1 to jdangers' cite to Biochemical Individuality by Williams, but I don't necessarily agree with jdanger wholesale. The book is a little dense for folks like me with a sparse hard science background, but it's totally consistent with the point that People Are Different. And it uses data to get there. Every one is happy? Probably not, but the book's a good read.

[Horsedog]

This thread makes me sad. NF is the most supportive place I've ever found!

IMHO NF is a place of self discovery and self experimentation. We can all learn from each other to level up our lives and help fellow rebels level up theirs!

Do your research, ask questions, listen to the answers you get and make your own decision about how to proceed.

I've never felt 'pushed' into one camp or another, I've only found people eager to share their successes and failures to help me along my journey.

/back to your arguing if you must...

It IS starting to deteriorate into veiled (and not so veiled) personal attacks. I get it - it's a hot-button topic, there's lots of passionate and intelligent people here with knowledge they want to share with others. Doesn't mean we have to be dicks to one another.

If somebody tries to live a way you don't agree with, then offer your encouragement, maybe a little advice on how you would do it and then move on... like:

"Hey, I know you're really digging the Paleo diet, but I personally think that the main thing, and the thing that will bring you the most success, is CICO- Calories In and Calories Out. Maybe you should try tracking calories on -Your Calorie Tracker Here- and see if that gets you a little closer to your goal. I personally don't think you have to cut grains out completely, so it might be worth checking out if you miss bread, pasta, etc...."

And, alternatively:

"Hey, I know you're having success tracking calories, but I think you could make a lot more progress eating a little similar to the Paleo diet. It's kind of the idea that foods found in nature are healthiest, and it may help you with -Your Ailment Here-. I personally believe that the quality of food matters most, so it might be worth looking into if you're interested."

A-friggin'-men.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I know I'm a little late to the party, but...

If somebody tries to live a way you don't agree with, then offer your encouragement, maybe a little advice on how you would do it and then move on... like:

"Hey, I know you're really digging the Paleo diet, but I personally think that the main thing, and the thing that will bring you the most success, is CICO- Calories In and Calories Out. Maybe you should try tracking calories on -Your Calorie Tracker Here- and see if that gets you a little closer to your goal. I personally don't think you have to cut grains out completely, so it might be worth checking out if you miss bread, pasta, etc...."

And, alternatively:

"Hey, I know you're having success tracking calories, but I think you could make a lot more progress eating a little similar to the Paleo diet. It's kind of the idea that foods found in nature are healthiest, and it may help you with -Your Ailment Here-. I personally believe that the quality of food matters most, so it might be worth looking into if you're interested."

It seems like, compared to when I first joined the forum, the main goal of people here now is to just "correct" instead of offer support, but, regardless, can we please stop making a big deal about how people choose to live their lives now, and the self-victimization, ie: "NF is mostly Paleo, woe is me...".

~Signed,

Just had a cup of Moose Tracks ice cream and a Twisted Tea after work, going to have a slice or two of pizza, and probably a half dozen scrambled eggs after my workout. (Friday isn't that great nutrition wise... but it's Friday! )

Just read through the while thread and am glad this was posted so that I don't have to. A+ sir.

This thread has, as have so many before it, devolved into a back and forth of people trying to make sure their opinion is heard and "correcting" one another.

Is CICO a useful tool to weight loss for those who need to reign back their food intake? Yep. If you just need a slight tweak to your diet or to keep an eye on your intake can it be the only real tool you need? Sure. This seems to be what Waldo has had success with, and that's great. He's one of those people that this is the only thing they need for success and this works for the many people that are like him that don't have other issues.

Unfortunately there are plenty of other people out there that aren't one of those people. Some have unhealthy relationships with food such as binging urges, emotional eating, or eating out of boredom (my personal devil). There are also others out there with food allergies or other adverse reactions to certain foods. For these people, CICO is just going to scratch the surface when it comes to finding a solution, same thing with paleo or any other tool.

This is jdanger's point I believe. Anyone who has issues beyond a slightly higher intake than they need or someone who doesn't quite burn enough is going to need a combination of tools that is going to be special to their individual case and there is no silver bullet for this group. Each will have a different combination of tools that works for them for different reasons.

I tried to get that out as best I could and I'm sure I missed some nuances, but can we focus less on who is "correct" and more on encouraging and helping each specific case?

[70Kel]

This thread makes me sad. NF is the most supportive place I've ever found!

IMHO NF is a place of self discovery and self experimentation. We can all learn from each other to level up our lives and help fellow rebels level up theirs!

Do your research, ask questions, listen to the answers you get and make your own decision about how to proceed.

I've never felt 'pushed' into one camp or another, I've only found people eager to share their successes and failures to help me along my journey.

/back to your arguing if you must...

"ditto" to everything WickedPixie has said above!

[ETFnerd]

[empeg9000]

Haha!

[Doodle]

I agree with what Wicked Pixie said. I've never felt pushed or outcast for thinking one way or another here in NF. That's what makes NF so great. How about we all start up that Hugfest again.