This is an embarrassingly dumb question.

[coonskee]

So I'm working through the New Rules of Lifting for Women. I'm supposed to be doing deadlifts.

The first time I did them, I was one of the only people in the gym, so I grab the first Olympic barbell that I saw - which, in hindsight, I realize was off the squat rack.

Did I commit a sin? Are there usually barbells around in other places, or do you sometimes have to nab ones from other equipment? (Basically: should I scour the gym for a 'stand-alone' barbell next time?)

Love,

-the epic n00b

(also, techinical question: last time I did them, I did 2x15, except I only made 10 of the last one with an empty bar b/c my lower back was achy. Is some bit of ache normal, or do I need to improve my form even more?)

thanks guys

[Scorpion1674]

Considering the environment, it's not that bad. If it's busy, then yeah, seek a stand-alone, or ask whoever's working squats. But again since it was relatively dead, not a big deal as long as you put it back.

As far as the technical question, IMHO, if you're just starting out, you can expect a good bit of ache as your learning a new lift. Good on you for not pushing through it just yet. Personally, if I feel excess soreness or any actual pain, I stop. If my form suffers, I stop. It's not worth the risk. Now, as for your form, no way to tell from here. Sorry! Best I can say is ask somebody, or check a mirror against a youTube vid or something.

[Blueberries]

Totally fine.

With an empty bar, are you pulling it off the floor or do you have it raised to the height it would be with 45lb plates on it?

[coonskee]

I start them from the ground.

And thank you for the advice!

Edit to say: So I squat below parallel to pick it up, and I've been told I have proper squat form. I keep my lower back straight or curved in a bit even (that is, no hunchbacking)

[Scorpion1674]

Hmm... form sounds fine to me. Listen to your body, you MIGHT be going too heavy too early.

[coonskee]

Oooh that's embarrassing, since it's an empty barbell! >< 15lb dumbells then? (to total 30 pounds - I think I read that empty olympic barbells are 40lbs, right?)

God, I am such a n00b. Must train more.

[Eurydice]

I don't think my gym even has stand-alones. I usually get my deadlift bars off a bench. As crowded as my gym is, I'm going to be blocking something when I deadlift anyway, and the gym has more benches than it does squat racks. As long as you put it back, you're fine.

My back is always a little achy after deadlift day. As long as it doesn't become actual pain, I don't worry much about it.

[Pat G]

If this is your first time doing the lift, then yeah, you will be achey, just make sure to stretch and roll out your lower back and legs after you're done.

As you're starting with the bar, are there any objects in the gym you could use to prop it up to height? i think around 8 inches off the floor. Think maybe, aerobic steps or the blocks they go on, or other piled small weights.

When you do the lift, are you lowering the bar all the way to the floor or to midway up your shins? Going down a bit too far might be placing further strain on your lower back (you don't want your shoulders to be lower than your hips).

[coonskee]

I lower it all the way to the floor. I'm going to try putting it on one of the step-thingies next time I lift (Thursday)(after nabbing one from wherever I can find it ) and see if that helps. Also, will try just lowering it to my shins and doing reps that way. If I'm still feeling uncomfortably achy, I'll try out a lower weight with dumbbells.

Thank you for all your advice!! This place is awesome.

[weirdquark]

Oooh that's embarrassing, since it's an empty barbell! >< 15lb dumbells then? (to total 30 pounds - I think I read that empty olympic barbells are 40lbs, right?)

God, I am such a n00b. Must train more.

The standard (men's) Olympic barbell is ~45lbs -- though they also make an Olympic barbell for women which is a bit shorter and lighter (~35lbs.) If your gym only has one size, it's probably the 45lb one. (See, you're already lifting heavier!)

And few times I've been to a gym they didn't have any standalone barbells, so I grabbed one off a bench because there were several bars set up for bench press at various angles and only one power cage for squats.

[azsf]

not many gyms will have spare barbells, unless they're a dedicated heavy lifting / olympic training gym. or potentially a crossfit box. Just grab a barbell nearest to where you'll be working. Most people will be fine seeing someone deadlift in the rack; it's a lot better than having to wait for someone to finish their hour-long curl session

I only made 10 of the last one with an empty bar b/c my lower back was achy.

sounds about right, especially if you're untrained. personally id keep the reps lower and slowly increase weight every session. keep it up!

[vamessedup]

Working on phase 1 of NROLFW myself. Grabbed an Olympic barbell off a bench rack today to use for dead lifts, and the moment I put it back between sets someone asked if I was done using it.

The gym was pretty busy, but I'd already stood around waiting for one guy to free up the only 50 lb barbell in the entire gym for quite some time and he wasn't moving. I made a little joke about the other barbells all being in use and he moved on. Seems that's the way it goes when the gym is busy. If it's not, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you put everything back where you found it.

[WizardTrip]

Some good advice above. To add (or reinforce) a few things.

Using any available bar is fine IMO. My gym doesn't have a dedicated DL area, so I always grab the bar off the incline bench setup (it is the least frequently used barbell in the gym).

A little tightness/soreness in the lower back is expected at the start, but there shouldn't be any pain. If you feel pain, then you may need to rest and ice it, and focus a little more on form the next time since you may be rounding your lower back more than you think. You want your back as straight/neutral as possible.

As for form, as others have mentioned, try to prop the bar up on something to get it around the height as if you had 45lbs plates on it. That should be your starting position. Going all the way down to the floor with an empty bar is starting and ending too low. Also, while you are learning, drop the amount of reps in your sets and up the number of sets. Maybe 3x8, 3x5, or 5x5. I'm not necessarily saying to follow a 5x5 style program, but more sets at lower reps gives you a moment to step back, see how you're feeling (your back, etc), evaluate how you think your form was, then step back up and do it again. More reps can tend to cause your form to fail towards the end of the set, and at the start, so much focus needs to be on form.

[coonskee]

Also, while you are learning, drop the amount of reps in your sets and up the number of sets. Maybe 3x8, 3x5, or 5x5. I'm not necessarily saying to follow a 5x5 style program, but more sets at lower reps gives you a moment to step back, see how you're feeling (your back, etc), evaluate how you think your form was, then step back up and do it again. More reps can tend to cause your form to fail towards the end of the set, and at the start, so much focus needs to be on form.

Did not think of this. I'll work on doing that, too.

There's so much I need to learn.. but I'm so excited to learn it ^-^

[DoogieT]

I agree that NF is awesome. I had never even heard of a deadlift before I got here and I've been slowly adding them to my workout routine. I started with two 45 pound plates a side and now I'm up to 195. If you can grab the square step-thingies to get the bar at the right height that should help a lot. Better to ease into them slowly and properly than to rush it and hurt yourself.

[chairohkey]

Alot of good points have been made but I suggest that instead of trying to prop up the barbell, you just do Romanian Deadlifts. The RDL is an excellent and sometimes better substitute at times. Just make sure your form is correct the below articles and videos should help.

http://70sbig.com/blog/2011/06/the-rdl/

[CyningaDena]

Everyone's already given some great advice, so I'll just say that your questions aren't dumb at all! It can totally feel sometimes like there are unspoken etiquette rules in the gym, and you don't want to irritate that beefy sweaty guy right next to you, and then suddenly you feel like judgey faces are all around. But it sounds like you're doing great with problem-solving and listening to your body, so I wouldn't worry about it!

[Scorpion1674]

Working on phase 1 of NROLFW myself. Grabbed an Olympic barbell off a bench rack today to use for dead lifts, and the moment I put it back between sets someone asked if I was done using it.

The gym was pretty busy, but I'd already stood around waiting for one guy to free up the only 50 lb barbell in the entire gym for quite some time and he wasn't moving. I made a little joke about the other barbells all being in use and he moved on. Seems that's the way it goes when the gym is busy. If it's not, I wouldn't worry about it as long as you put everything back where you found it.

Sadly, you missed a great opportunity to set the example of politeness. Guess hogging equipment is the norm. I'd have simply said "No, but go ahead. We can rotate." I've done that more'n a few times. I personally can't STAND when someone rests on a bench/seat between sets. Saw one guy do 5 sets of lat pulls with 2 minutes between sets. You can do the math here. *rolling eyes* I mean, is he the only one who wants to work out today?

Glad you were trying to be cordial and have a little humor as well, but some folks have no sense of humor.

[Leimanu]

I'm a n00b too! I usually work out at home with found objects, so when I got the chance to workout at my cousin's gym, I was super excited, but also nervous careful about having too much weight on my squats and deadlifts. So I used the same weight as I did at home.

AFTER the workout, I realized that I was using an Olympic bar.

I was SHOCKED to realize that I was lifting 45lb MORE than I thought I was, and more than I thought I could!!

[snap_peas]

When I started deadlifting, I started with the 45 lb olympic bar from flat on the ground. It was a bit heavy at first so I did low reps (6 or 7 to start?), but you will honestly be shocked at how soon you'll just lift the bar off the ground with one arm. My teensy gym has 1 or 2 olympic bars lying around in addition to the one on the squat rack and the bench press, but if yours only has one on the squat rack, feel free to snag that shiz. And consider asking your gym to invest in another bar!

[coonskee]

To everyone who posted:

THANK YOU. I tried the slightly-raised-bar idea (set the barbell with one of those step things [the little boxes that raise them, not the actual step platforms] on each end) and I didn't feel ANY lower back issues. I also stretched a bit more this morning, so I think the two together really did the trick.

What I did:

2x15, empty bar

1x5, 65lbs total - lost form a bit on this, so I went about the rest of my routine.

After everything was done (lat pulldowns, shoulder presses, lunges and crunches - i fail at swiss ball crunches, btw...), I went back and did 4x5 of 65lb deadlifts. I definitely felt myself losing form as soon as I turned to look sideways (blah), but I think I was doing okay for most of the reps. Will have to ask someone to check my form for me when I do this workout next time (so, in four days).

Again, a HUGE thank you to everyone <3

And I have one more, totally unrelated question They looked the exact same, but I grabbed a "dual pulley machine" instead of a lat pulldown machine for my first set (oops). I could only get in 27.5lb reps, and BARELY - when I switched to the lat machine, I was bringing 55lb reps to the same level. What exactly is the difference between the two? From what I remember of physics, more pulleys = less force exerted by the user... (if that's totally wrong, I'm doing bio in grad school, so i'm sorry >.>)

EDIT: also, about the barbell situation. I was at the gym at open today (5am, woohoo) and so had time to scurry around a bit. there *were* straight barbells on the rack where all the curling bars were, but they seemed shorter than the olympic barbells (and also had pre-determined weights) so I just snagged a bar off the bench press rack. And put it back, of course I'm learning!

[aj_rock]

A lot of duel pulleys list the weight PER handle. So 27.5 * 2 handles = 55lbs... exactly what you did before

Anyways, with the deads keeping checking to make sure you have form, but when you start adding the weight, 15 reps a set is gonna be just too much. The 5 rep 65 lb one makes much more sense.

It's a shame you're leaving Tdot though, as I'll be around once the school year starts and I would've been glad to give you a hand.

[coonskee]

A lot of duel pulleys list the weight PER handle. So 27.5 * 2 handles = 55lbs... exactly what you did before

Anyways, with the deads keeping checking to make sure you have form, but when you start adding the weight, 15 reps a set is gonna be just too much. The 5 rep 65 lb one makes much more sense.

It's a shame you're leaving Tdot though, as I'll be around once the school year starts and I would've been glad to give you a hand.

Aww, thank you! Wanna move down to NYC? If you happen to be around before Aug 23 I might try to take you up on that anyway.

And yeah, I'm following New Rules of Lifting for Women - in the first stage, there's 8 workouts; first two: 15 reps/set, second two: 12; third: 10; fourth: 8. I like the idea of doing 15 at first with less just because I feel like it's putting me in the habit of doing the form correctly (if that makes sense) so that I can start getting the weight up. But 15 alone definitely doesn't make sense.

The 27.5 * 2 makes a lot more sense... I'm a dumbass. *facepalm*

[rtalencar]

Aww, thank you! Wanna move down to NYC? If you happen to be around before Aug 23 I might try to take you up on that anyway.

And yeah, I'm following New Rules of Lifting for Women - in the first stage, there's 8 workouts; first two: 15 reps/set, second two: 12; third: 10; fourth: 8. I like the idea of doing 15 at first with less just because I feel like it's putting me in the habit of doing the form correctly (if that makes sense) so that I can start getting the weight up. But 15 alone definitely doesn't make sense.

The 27.5 * 2 makes a lot more sense... I'm a dumbass. *facepalm*

First and foremost...NYC > Toronto =)

Doing deadlifts from the ground isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's essentially a block pull (where you lower the height of the bar with respect to your body so you have to pull it a longer distance). Those are good for training to help improve your explosiveness off the floor. Thing is, since you're just starting out with deadlifts, it's almost certainly unneccessary, and you'd be better off just doing regular deadlifts. Your lower back was hurting with the block pull because they're much harder than regular deadlifts. For form: Rip lays it out pretty well

What I would suggest if your gym has a cage is setting up your lifts as a rack pull. Setup the pins/bars on the cage low enough that the bar is at just about the same height as it would be if you had 45 lb weights on and then do your pull from there.

I'm going to go against the grain a bit here, but if you're following a specific program, in your case NROLFW, follow it. You can do some additional heavy dead work if you like, but if they call for 2x15 then do 2x15. I'm a strong proponent of giving a program an honest shot before changing things about it. That being said I haven't read NROLFW so I can't comment to the quality of the programming directly. Based on anecdotal evidence though, I understand it's solid and am going under that assumption.

With respect to gym etiquette, I'd venture a guess that you're fine. If you're the type of person that actually worries if you're impacting other folks workouts negatively with your actions, you're already better than a good chunk of the gym-rat population. I'm not saying stop caring, but as long as you clean up after your workouts and don't completely hog 1,325,125 machines/weights at once for a tremendously long period of time, you're fine.

[WizardTrip]

I'm going to go against the grain a bit here, but if you're following a specific program, in your case NROLFW, follow it. You can do some additional heavy dead work if you like, but if they call for 2x15 then do 2x15. I'm a strong proponent of giving a program an honest shot before changing things about it. That being said I haven't read NROLFW so I can't comment to the quality of the programming directly. Based on anecdotal evidence though, I understand it's solid and am going under that assumption.

I'm going to agree with this. I saw that you were doing NROLFW, but my recommendation was because I don't know the specifics of the program. Follow the program as it is laid out.