Body image and other social issues for men

[Daverin2112]

Okay, I just have to say: thank you for that. That made my day.

Also Bronson Hardy is definitely awesome as well. Looks like we have a similar idea for what we think would look good for us.

[Rurounii]

I have a few minor body and one major social issue

Body image first. I'm 5'5 1/2" tall and thin. When I was on dating websites before (no shame, it was kind of fun) I always noticed that women said they wanted taller guys. I'm almost always the shortest guy, and while I've accepted my height it sometimes bothers me. Not to the point that I'm going to start wearing lifts or boots with heels. I try to do the opposite and find shoes with the least amount of sole as possible, because if I'm going to be a dwarf I'd rather keep my feet on the ground. Ok, I'm more of a short elf. I'm also not going to try to get super muscular or big just to compensate. My goal is to get as strong as possible while being able to move in any direction as quickly as possible. I wear skinny jeans and fitted t-shirts, if you don't think that's manly, tough, they fit awesome on me. I shave my body hair and prefer the same from the person I'm with because I don't find body hair appealing or clean. It's also kind of uncomfortable. If you like your body hair, cool, own it, but I'm not a fan of it. With that, the body type I want is like Vegeta from Dragon Ball Z. Not the type when he's jacked, but when he looks thin but muscular.

Social Issue: Sometimes I feel like the only guy that doesn't want to have kids. Society left and right tells me that manly men have kids, and the culture I'm from says I need to have lots of them. Not my thing, not sorry, not going to happen. Still, whenever I say this, I hear, "You say that now, but just wait." No, I don't want to "wait," I don't think having children is important. I want to be free, not have to worry about babysitters, and be able to drop my life at the drop of a hat to do whatever catches my fancy. For those of you with kids, I'm not trying to be negative about you having kids.

[azsf]

name a real life or fictitious person or two (from a work where some artwork has been done) who is close to what you think does look good.

so many to choose from, but keeping it to physique only i'll go with tony jaa and lateef crowder. if you don't recognise those names, you may remember them from this clip:

Rurounii, you sound like the short version of me. Being crazy tall isn't as great as people make it out to be, and while women often want "taller guys" they usually don't want someone who they have to stand on a chair to make out with

[illc]

The only body image i want is the one that will allow me to continue to do what i love for as long as i love it.

I'd tend to agree - except when I don't because I've got body issues. I suppose they're pretty moderate but I do find myself fairly frequently training and thinking "Has this gone past the point of diminishing marginal returns in terms of my personal-me epicness? Am I doing this for what I think someone else will see sometime down the road?" It's kind of nuts, really but the memories of a 6'2" 140lb teenager can linger well past their currency. I'm sure people on the flipside of the ectomorph/endomorph spectrum can relate. "The grass is always greener ..." sounds cliche but I think I lot of us have lived that.

[Flex Luthor]

First I would like to address the body image thing and what others from different fitness circles think of us and so forth. I started working out because I was a skinny ass white kid. I let vanity fuel my workouts. I am now dead sexy. Freaking sue me. The amount of s*** I do not give about what anyone thinks of my goals, accomplishments, etc. cannot be expressed in the english language. There are basically zero people who are respected in all fitness circles (Exception Bruce Lee) so why bother caring?

And secondly every girl I've ever known has drooled over Brad Pitt in this movie so take that with a grain of salt. I do find this hilarious but not for previously aforementioned reasons of him having no function. It's hilarious because of the subway scene where he makes fun of the calvin klein underwear model and the way society tells us to be like that and he basically is one himself. That's funny.

[azsf]

It's hilarious because of the subway scene where he makes fun of the calvin klein underwear model and the way society tells us to be like that and he basically is one himself. That's funny.

The movie is supposed to be a satire on hyper-masculinity. Tyler Durden is not a real person, hes a construct of the narrator, who "looks like he wants to look, fights like he wants to fight, and fucks like he wants to fuck". so yes, he is like a ck underwear model, because that's what men are being sold. he both embodies and rejects these things at the same, due to the dichotomous nature of the narrator (hence the schizophrenia).

There's a better line from that scene that you can take away though. i can't recall it verbatim, but it accounts to "stuffing themselves into gyms for a perfect ideal"; dealing with training for aesthetics. this is contrasted to what tyler and the narrator do with "fight club being the reason..." they train harder, cut their hair short and trim their finger nails. their aesthetics, while being remarkably similar to those of the images of men they see in media, are built with purpose.

[blindasutsutsu]

Genius reaction.

I've seen the grip reflex, I don't look too strong, but there are some guys that just need to prove themselves over all others, so they try it on me. I've got a pretty good grip and usually match them and it puts that to a stop.

I am way late to this thread I just wanted to say that when someone goes all death grip on me I go with the limp hand. It generally makes them feel super awkward and then if you are meeting more than one person you just shake regularly with everyone else. Basically making them know that you went limp hand on them on purpose. I have done it a couple of times and usually the reactions are priceless.

[Flex Luthor]

I'm well aware of the brilliance of the scene. But that's not how Brad Pitt himself got the look he had. That's the funny part. And don't get me wrong, Fight Club is one of my all time favorite movies, I just always thought that it was amusing that's all.

[Guest Snake McClain]

And secondly every girl I've ever known has drooled over Brad Pitt in this movie so take that with a grain of salt. I do find this hilarious but not for previously aforementioned reasons of him having no function. It's hilarious because of the subway scene where he makes fun of the calvin klein underwear model and the way society tells us to be like that and he basically is one himself. That's funny.

the thing about this...is i know a ton of women who HATE a guy that looks like that. so...yeah. its just preference.

and yes the subway scene is quite funny. i am pretty sure it was done on purpose to be a reflection of himself.

[Waldo]

Okay, perhaps an interesting little experiment: name a real life or fictitious person or two (from a work where some artwork has been done) who is close to what you think does look good.

Perfect.....

[Waldo]

It's kind of nuts, really but the memories of a 6'2" 140lb teenager can linger well past their currency. I'm sure people on the flipside of the ectomorph/endomorph spectrum can relate. "The grass is always greener ..." sounds cliche but I think I lot of us have lived that.

I was perfectly content being obese for a while because of those memories.

Being a 6'1" 140 lb Skeletor is worse IMHO to being 6'1" 250 lb fattie.

My chest will never be big enough because of the insecurity that being able to see ribs where your pecs belong brought me years ago. I'll always be self conscious of my chest size.

[KillerGriller]

It's kind of nuts, really but the memories of a 6'2" 140lb teenager can linger well past their currency. I'm sure people on the flipside of the ectomorph/endomorph spectrum can relate. "The grass is always greener ..." sounds cliche but I think I lot of us have lived that.

This, although I'm still 146lbs at 35 and have never been more than 152 (when I was lifting quite a bit).

The whole "please go eat and lift something" gets really tired after a while. I will never be huge, I'm simply not built that way yet I've been made to feel like I'm "less of a man" by meathead aholes because of it. Beanpole, Stick, Scrawny, these were what I continually heard growing up, now most of those guys that said them battle with obesity etc.

"Do the best you can with what you've been given" is my body image issue.

[Jcannon98188]

My chest will never be big enough because of the insecurity that being able to see ribs where your pecs belong brought me years ago. I'll always be self conscious of my chest size.

Oh man this. You can see almost all of my ribs. People always look at me strange when I say I want to be 185lbs (currently 150), but I don't think they understand how depressing it is to be this skinny. I think people also completely ignore the "too skinny" part of things as when you think of diet and exercise you immediately think of big people getting skinnier.

[Jcannon98188]

This, although I'm still 146lbs at 35 and have never been more than 152 (when I was lifting quite a bit).

The whole "please go eat and lift something" gets really tired after a while. I will never be huge, I'm simply not built that way yet I've been made to feel like I'm "less of a man" by meathead aholes because of it. Beanpole, Stick, Scrawny, these were what I continually heard growing up, now most of those guys that said them battle with obesity etc.

"Do the best you can with what you've been given" is my body image issue.

I am at 150lbs but I feel you. Whenever I am helping someone move or lift something heavy they always laugh at me and tell me that I'll hurt myself because I am so small. I will never be big, it is in my genetics. I look at my uncle and grandad, both great shape, both spec ops in the military, both skinny as hell. We just never get big.

[animalcrackaz]

I am at 150lbs but I feel you. Whenever I am helping someone move or lift something heavy they always laugh at me and tell me that I'll hurt myself because I am so small. I will never be big, it is in my genetics. I look at my uncle and grandad, both great shape, both spec ops in the military, both skinny as hell. We just never get big.

I can definitely relate to you both, KillerGriller and Jcannon - I was always skinny growing up(140 pounds at 6'3" tall). I always struggled with it, because people were relentless in making fun of me because of my weight - even people who would be hyper-sensitive around someone who was overweight. It's a sad fact that the same courtesies aren't often translated to the underweight crowd, even if you can't help it.

The funny thing is, I've now gained a fair amount of weight, to the point where I'm on the higher end of average for my height(I'm around 185, give or take). But, I was so skinny my entire life that I feel borderline uncomfortable at the weight I'm at. To the average person, I look, well... average, but I guess since skinny was my "average," "average" feels enormous to me.

Granted, the weight I've put on has been more fat than anything. I had very little muscle as a 6'3" 140lb weakling, so the unintentional weight has given me an average size, but with a large percentage of body fat for my height and weight. So, I think I would have a better self-image if I increased my muscle and decreased my body fat percentage, even if I stayed in the same weight range.

[Flex Luthor]

I think the negative body issue of being skinny for men is that we're "supposed" to be strong. Manly men lift heavy stuff. Manly men have large chests and lots of hair. Manly men eat lots of steak and potatoes and drink beer. Once you've grown up thinking that's how you're supposed to be and you turn out to be skinny and weak, you feel like there is something wrong with you. That's why overweight men generally have higher self esteem than underweight men. Being bigger and eating a lot for a guy is actually encouraged. Even if they're at the point of being overweight and unhealthy.

It used to be that if you were big and strong you could provide for your family better by being able to do a labor intensive job better than smaller guys. That just isn't the case anymore as most jobs don't require any labor at all, and we as a society have to change the way we think.

[Tocho]

I'm not too satisfied with the way my body looks (but that's able to be fixed by improving my eating and exercise habits), but I really, really have an issue with my height (or lack of it).

I'm almost 5'10" (I think) - 176.5 cm or so. My dad is about an inch taller, but all other male relatives are close to 190 cm. (~4-5 inches taller), and everyone (I MEAN EVERYONE, even many girls in this country) is or seems to be taller than me.

I realise I probably won't gain any more height, which means sooner or later I'll have to come to terms with my height. However, I'm still hoping for a quite late growth spurt to gain a few more inches, or even just 1 more inch would do a lot.

[The Tin Man]

I'm not too satisfied with the way my body looks (but that's able to be fixed by improving my eating and exercise habits), but I really, really have an issue with my height (or lack of it).

I'm almost 5'10" (I think) - 176.5 cm or so. My dad is about an inch taller, but all other male relatives are close to 190 cm. (~4-5 inches taller), and everyone (I MEAN EVERYONE, even many girls in this country) is or seems to be taller than me.

I realise I probably won't gain any more height, which means sooner or later I'll have to come to terms with my height. However, I'm still hoping for a quite late growth spurt to gain a few more inches, or even just 1 more inch would do a lot.

Today I learned average male height in Sweden is 5'10.9" (180cm). And in the US it's 5' 10.2" (178.2cm). Apparently at 5'8.5" (174cm) I'm farther from average height than I thought...

It's funny how slightly below average height can make one feel quite short at times. I am shorter than my father and brother and most male cousins but about average height for my group of friends.

[leadchipmunk]

Today I learned average male height in Sweden is 5'10.9" (180cm). And in the US it's 5' 10.2" (178.2cm). Apparently at 5'8.5" (174cm) I'm farther from average height than I thought...

It's funny how slightly below average height can make one feel quite short at times. I am shorter than my father and brother and most male cousins but about average height for my group of friends.

At 6'1, this knowledge makes me feel happier about my height and (literally) being able to stand out. It seems like a bunch of guys around me are my height or taller.

[Avistew]

Sorry to barge in your thread, guys, but I have to say I'm fascinated by the idea that someone who is 5'10 or even more can feel short.

I guess I have a weird perception of height. I'm 5'4 1/2 (for years, until a few months age, I thought I was 5'6. Bad converting from centimeters, I knew my real metric height). Anyways, I've never considered a guy short unless he was shorter than me. If they're between my height and I would say 5'9, they're average, if they're over 5'9, they're tall.

I think it comes down to personal perception. I'm average for a woman, I think, but in the end I'm shorter than most men, and so they seem tall to me. If I need to look up at you, I'm not going to think you're short, no matter how much more I need to look up at the guy next to you if he's 6'6 or 7 feet tall or something crazy like that.

I would say the perfect height for a relationship is when you can hug and kiss without either person needing to bend over. This being said, my current boyfriend is gigantic (6'6) and although it makes a lot of things difficult, I think it's possible to adapt to large height differences.

As an aside, being with someone that stupidly tall has definitely changed my perceptions, at least at first. When I started dating him was the first time ever I felt short, and not good enough, and not tall enough like models, etc. Nothing to do with what he likes, he's been with women way shorter than me, and with women near as tall as him. But I felt like I was so much weaker and punier and less worth in comparison.

Since then I've come to terms with that. I'm not short, he's just huge. But I can imagine that if you happen to be around people you think are taller than you all the time, it would play with your mind.

I said "you think", because while I don't doubt you guys, I wanted to also point out that sometimes, people are wrong about things like that. My mother is at least an inch shorter than I am (her with heels on, me without). She keeps being convinced she's taller than me, and then she sees us in a mirror or on pictures and says it can't be right. She thinks she's taller than a lot of people who are taller than her.

I'm sure it can happen the other way around, too, especially if your height bothers you enough that you keep comparing yourself. If you have bad self-image and feel short, you might be harsher on yourself and think people who are exactly your height or even a bit less are taller than you are.

[azsf]

@jpryan90 - to me one of the biggest issues is that "skinny" too often is paired with weak, and "big" with strong. in some cases this is definitely going to be true, but it's not the be all / end all, as many posters have already stated. but still this idea persists, and so we see images of skinny guys (like that brad pitt photo) and think "oh he must be weak". i think we need to move past this snap reaction in order to truly appreciate the male body.

Being bigger and eating a lot for a guy is actually encouraged. Even if they're at the point of being overweight and unhealthy.

Couldn't agree more.

[This is Seth]

I think the negative body issue of being skinny for men is that we're "supposed" to be strong. Manly men lift heavy stuff. Manly men have large chests and lots of hair. Manly men eat lots of steak and potatoes and drink beer.

I don't have a lot of hair and I prefer scotch...

And, just to add something productive to the thread: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrros_Dimas

Dude was/is a beast at just around 80kg. You can be small and strong, you just need to work at it.

Edit.. I'm realizing that probably isn't what you guys think of as "small" is it.

[CyningaDena]

I don't have a lot of hair and I prefer scotch...

And, just to add something productive to the thread: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrros_Dimas

Dude was/is a beast at just around 80kg. You can be small and strong, you just need to work at it.

All of this can be true without contradicting (or possibly even addressing) the points JP & Co. were trying to make.

I think part of the reason conversations like this get all squirrelly and difficult to pin down into anything linear is that each of us bases our own body image against our own comparison group. Which is why it was so interesting to see what other guys considered the "ideal" body. I would never even consider comparing my body against Bronson and feeling that I do/don't measure up. Rich Froning is a good representation of the comparison group I have burned into my skull. Any time someone invokes the "societal ideal for male bodies," that's the image that'll pop into my head while chipmunk is thinking Bronson at that exact same time.

So I agree that it's a good reality check to remind people that Pyrros Dimas is a person who exists, so we can hopefully stop comparing ourselves to other guys and just be happy making the absolute best of the body we've got. If it were that easy, though, I don't think we'd have this thread. I think, in this thread, we're seeing a lot of people at a lot of different places in that process.

[Flex Luthor]

@azsf The absolute biggest issue I see, especially for men, is that a guy who lifts weights should be strong when it just isn't true. If somebody trains for aesthetics and achieves a more aesthetically pleasing body they have achieved their goal and I commend them. Who are we to judge someone based on what they want?

[Daverin2112]

All of this can be true without contradicting (or possibly even addressing) the points JP & Co. were trying to make.

I think part of the reason conversations like this get all squirrelly and difficult to pin down into anything linear is that each of us bases our own body image against our own comparison group. Which is why it was so interesting to see what other guys considered the "ideal" body. I would never even consider comparing my body against Bronson and feeling that I do/don't measure up. Rich Froning is a good representation of the comparison group I have burned into my skull. Any time someone invokes the "societal ideal for male bodies," that's the image that'll pop into my head while chipmunk is thinking Bronson at that exact same time.

So I agree that it's a good reality check to remind people that Pyrros Dimas is a person who exists, so we can hopefully stop comparing ourselves to other guys and just be happy making the absolute best of the body we've got. If it were that easy, though, I don't think we'd have this thread. I think, in this thread, we're seeing a lot of people at a lot of different places in that process.

Bingo. I can't agree more. Its hard for me to even comprehend how some people feel here in that "men should be big and strong." From my perspective, it seems society has now deemed you needing to look skinny with high muscular definition. Obviously, then, that tells me that, simply put, we aren't even being addressed by the same part of society, and seem to naturally feel that the body type we don't want to be is what is "the norm."

Like, even just above for what jpryan90 says just above me, my impression has been the exact opposite, that you lift to look pleasing and try to eat as little as possible, and that those who actually care about strength are not worried about what matters, which of course is what I don't want. And you know what? Both are perfectly valid, and I suspect that, given our experiences, both are completely factual. This is making me think that we tend to equate the oppressive "societal norm" with whatever is what is the type that bothers us the most, fair or not.

What we need to do is realize that, for those who are addressing how they think they are being judged for not doing what others want... those who want something else, even the exact thing that is "judging" them, may feel the same way.