What do you believe?

[FyreFlies]

Synyster - aww I'm sorry. =(

 

Irish, have you read "The Power of Now" by Tolle? That book changed my life. O_o

[Irish Oisin]

That's the next book on my reading list!

[PrincessHeather]

Pray to the great space taco, and she shall deliver one to you, in 30 minutes or less.

 

 

Practicing Buddhist here.  Just read through this thread and I'm super impressed with the contributions, both spiritual and edible, that everyone is making to the discussion.    Leave it to NF Rebels to carry out a kick@$s discussion of philosophy and spirituality!

 

I was raised very (very!) fundamentalist Christian and went through a metamorphosis when I entered adulthood that took me through agnosticism and Taoism before I came home to sit under the bodhi tree and study Buddhism.  The only shadow over my experience with Buddhism is that my family, who are primarily still fundamentalist Christians, do not know.  I've considered myself a Buddhist practitioner for around 5 years now, and most of my family still do not know this about me.  We all live many States apart, so it's not like they can come to my house and see my meditation space, my Buddha statues, my books on the dharma, etc.  I finally told my youngest brother and his wife last year, and that healed a lot of the pain of practicing in the shadows, but my parents and my other brother still do not know.  That hurts me somewhat, in the deep places of my heart, but at this point I think that is how it has to be.  My youngest brother and I talked at length about me telling the rest of my family, and we both agree that my parents' worldview likely does not have the elasticity to bear news that to them will be so shocking.  The knowledge that their daughter's eternity is no longer guaranteed according to the principles of their worldview would cause them so much pain, and it could be pain that there's no way to alleviate for them once it's happened.  I don't want to cause my parents suffering, especially when there's the risk that for them the suffering might never end.

 

I would never wish to change my parents' faith.  On the rare occasions when I have discussed my spirituality with others, I always make sure to tell them that I am not an evangelical Buddhist; I have exactly zero interest in converting anyone.  I believe what I believe because it makes sense to me (I still believe in Santa Claus too, sooo...); everybody else finds their own way.

 

Also, now I want tacos and bacon for breakfast.  I blame this thread.  

 

I find this really interesting, and can relate to it slightly in a couple of ways. It was a big deal for my parents when I decided to pursue churches other than the Catholic church, and for awhile my mom didn't tell any of her sisters or her parents about it, and my family stopped going anywhere for awhile. Might not seem like a big deal, but for them its such a part of the Mexcian culture and hearing me want something different was weird for them at first.

 

But more so, my husband is no longer religious at all and grew up in a very Christian household and participated in all the Bible studies and camps and such. But around like age 20, he started to really question his faith and as of now he's "agnostic atheist" (it's a thing, he showed me a description). And he struggled for many years to tell his parents, only just telling them last year. He thought they might view themselves as failing as parents, as though they didn't instill things in him enough for it to stick or something. His mom took it especially hard, but they have managed to get to a place where it isn't a fight or a struggle. I know they'll keep praying for his faith to be restored (and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't) but they know that their son is a good man and they love him. But he certainly waited until he was ready for the long discussions and email exchanges talking about it, but he felt it was important for them to know and not be shocked when he isn't going to church or any of that.

 

I've always appreciated the principles of Buddhism, I particularly like the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh. Read Peace is Every Step in college, still use some recordings of his for relaxation/meditation.

[RisenPhoenix]

I think the most interesting thing I've seen in this thread are the stories about people 'coming out' to parents about being a different faith than them.  I feel like I'm the odd one here because I pretty much didn't give a toss about how my parent's would react to having an atheist son (of course, I'm also a cold heartless bastard).  I don't think I've ever flat out said I'm an atheist, but I've certainly made my point abundantly clear.  Most of my family is pretty much in the know as well.  A few have *tried* to re-convert me.... doesn't end up well (especially if they try to Catholic Guilt ™ me.  Then I just get annoyed and stop holding back).  There is the slightly odd case of being my youngest cousin's godfather.... but at least when I accepted all those years ago I was at least Catholic.

 

That being said, I'm pretty sure that my mother had a harder time accepting that I was an atheist over my brother being gay.  But again, it's not like that made me hold my tongue anyway.

[Timmy M]

loving the '^TM' i must admit

 

personally it wasn't any bother, my mum isn't a massive catholic and my dad's probably atheist but only goes to church for mum, i just stopped going and it irked mum at first but she gets on with it and is pretty fine with it (didn't even wake me up to go with her and dad for easter sunday when i was planning on going with them)

[Irish Oisin]

My older brother has tried making me go to mass and when I refuse he tries to force me to go, at which point I ask him

"Are you actually going to physically force a 27 year old man into a church? You ARE aware of how I will react to that right?"

at which point he storms off in a huff...to mass, and I sit on the couch and watch sports. If I smoked cigars, that'd be an ideal time to light one up

 

Note to self; buy cigars.

[Thilde]

I think the most interesting thing I've seen in this thread are the stories about people 'coming out' to parents about being a different faith than them.  I feel like I'm the odd one here because I pretty much didn't give a toss about how my parent's would react to having an atheist son (of course, I'm also a cold heartless bastard).  I don't think I've ever flat out said I'm an atheist, but I've certainly made my point abundantly clear.  Most of my family is pretty much in the know as well.  A few have *tried* to re-convert me.... doesn't end up well (especially if they try to Catholic Guilt me.  Then I just get annoyed and stop holding back).  There is the slightly odd case of being my youngest cousin's godfather.... but at least when I accepted all those years ago I was at least Catholic.

 

That being said, I'm pretty sure that my mother had a harder time accepting that I was an atheist over my brother being gay.  But again, it's not like that made me hold my tongue anyway.

 

I yearn to not give a toss.  Some days I feel super brave and I think "I'm going to do it!" but I always chicken out.  I have asked myself numerous times why it even matters if they know.  And frankly, it doesn't really.  The only reason I wish I could tell them is because this is a big part of me, and I feel like they don't really know who I am.  It's the basic human urge to know and be known by others.  I want my family to know who I am, bottom line.  Sometimes I wonder if maybe I'm not giving them enough credit, maybe they can handle it, but then I think back over my life with them, and I realize nope, pretty sure it would create a massive fissure in the family.

 

Interestingly, and somewhat related...my parents are coming to visit me for a few days in July.  Last year when they visited, I had a buddha garden with a little statue of a sitting buddha....I left the statue up (after wrestling with worrying I should take it down) and called the garden a "meditation garden."  No problem, no questions, no issues at all.  Now, the buddha statue has migrated indoors and has become a fixture in my meditation corner.  There's no getting around what that little table is, with the statue, candles, origami lotus flowers, bits of stone and dried flowers, etc....it's clearly my personal little space for meditation and it looks like an altar (though I don't actually "worship" the Buddha, but that's another discussion).  So, my question is this....do I put the statue in the closet and dismantle my meditation corner before they get here?

 

The bottom line is that I'm terrified.  My parents have told me in the past when I've been a disappointment....I distinctly remember my Dad saying in a fit of anger, "It's always something with you, you're always doing SOMETHING to upset me!" before he stormed out of the house and wouldn't talk to me.  That was because I got my ear cartilage pierced.  When my brother "came out" last year about using medical marijuana to treat a condition he has been struggling with, my mom told him, "So you're just choosing to sin...you're choosing to go against the Bible!" and she wouldn't speak to him for days.  She still refuses to discuss that issue with anyone else in the family...it's like we're all supposed to pretend that none of us know my brother uses MM.  The spiritual, and in my parents' eyes very eternal, nature of the spirituality issue makes me think they're unlikely to take it well if marijuana and an earring can make them lose it.  I am wrestling hardcore with what to do when they visit.  If only I could actually get buff from all this wrestling, amiright?

You guys, my fellow NF Rebels, are pretty much the most trusted people in my life....NF is an amazing community of support across all sorts of differences.  So......what would you guys do if you were in my shoes?

[Thilde]

loving the '^TM' i must admit

 

I agree, the "TM" is great.

[Irish Oisin]

What I've seen in the past with someone who's told their parents something like that, and it may upset them, is that while they may be upset at first, and even for a few days, they will realise that family is more important than some book a bunch of farmers wrote millennia ago. Your decision is still a very, very difficult one and it sounds like your parents might not take it very well, so it's not a quick decision.

 

Telling someone how you feel is always better for you as an individual rather than hiding it. They're your parents and they love you, regardless of that book that gets misused so much. If they are good people and believe the good parts of the book, i.e: forgiveness and love, then they'll get over it.

 

My parents were very accepting that I'm an atheist, but we were pretty much non-practicing catholics growing up and me "coming out" as an atheist, was almost a natural progression for my family. My very catholic grandmother even accepted it, she just said she loved me no matter what. In saying that, I do believe that Ireland as a whole is becoming disillusioned with religion in the wake of the scandals involving the catholic church here...there was a LOT of truly awful things carried out by catholic priests and nuns in Ireland over a very long time. We're talking crimes against humanity here. Christians in America do seem, to the outsider, to be particularly devoted to the strict idea of the bible and certain interpretations of passages from it...so telling your parents about your beliefs could be a tricky one and I do not envy your task. But if they love you, they'll continue to love you.

[RisenPhoenix]

What I've seen in the past with someone who's told their parents something like that, and it may upset them, is that while they may be upset at first, and even for a few days, they will realise that family is more important than some book a bunch of farmers wrote millennia ago. Your decision is still a very, very difficult one and it sounds like your parents might not take it very well, so it's not a quick decision.

 

Telling someone how you feel is always better for you as an individual rather than hiding it. They're your parents and they love you, regardless of that book that gets misused so much. If they are good people and believe the good parts of the book, i.e: forgiveness and love, then they'll get over it.

 

My parents were very accepting that I'm an atheist, but we were pretty much non-practicing catholics growing up and me "coming out" as an atheist, was almost a natural progression for my family. My very catholic grandmother even accepted it, she just said she loved me no matter what. In saying that, I do believe that Ireland as a whole is becoming disillusioned with religion in the wake of the scandals involving the catholic church here...there was a LOT of truly awful things carried out by catholic priests and nuns in Ireland over a very long time. We're talking crimes against humanity here. Christians in America do seem, to the outsider, to be particularly devoted to the strict idea of the bible and certain interpretations of passages from it...so telling your parents about your beliefs could be a tricky one and I do not envy your task. But if they love you, they'll continue to love you.

 

This.  A Bajillion percent this.

 

Honestly, I'm still a cold heartless bastard.  If someone wants to cut me out of their life because of a realization I made as a fully-cognizant adult (as opposed to an indoctrinated child), they are welcome to the door.  The one family member who tried that though came around quickly enough when she realized how awesome I am in general (and humble, to boot).

 

As for the statue - I say leave it up.  You're an adult.  The best case scenario is they ignore it.  The mediocre response is they ask questions and prod a bit.  Worst case scenario is they storm out.  That's a 66.6% chance that nothing major comes of it (and I swear, I didn't intend for the percentage to be so punny).  Leave it up, and it can open a door.

[Rexxar Txan]

Honestly I have no clue where I stand. I don't say God exists, but I am not against the belief the he does. I've never been religious and my parents have never made religion a priority in their children's lives. Although my Mom is presbitarian and my father catholic.

[Anduril]

I was raised Methodist, and ended up in a "Christian" fundamentalist cult for 14 years. I still find religious discussions quite triggering at times.

 

For a long time after that the only god that made sense to me was Kali.

 

I'd have to say that now my worldview goes more towards animism than anything else. I believe the universe and everything in it is sacred.

 

I couldn't care less what my mother thinks, and my father is deceased, but a few of my family members are militantly religious and I don't talk about my beliefs with them.

[Rexxar Txan]

I was raised Methodist, and ended up in a "Christian" fundamentalist cult for 14 years. I still find religious discussions quite triggering at times.

 

For a long time after that the only god that made sense to me was Kali.

 

I'd have to say that now my worldview goes more towards animism than anything else. I believe the universe and everything in it is sacred.

 

I couldn't care less what my mother thinks, and my father is deceased, but a few of my family members are militantly religious and I don't talk about my beliefs with them.

 

I am curious to know, what is animism? I've never heard of it before.

[Thilde]

What I've seen in the past with someone who's told their parents something like that, and it may upset them, is that while they may be upset at first, and even for a few days, they will realise that family is more important than some book a bunch of farmers wrote millennia ago. Your decision is still a very, very difficult one and it sounds like your parents might not take it very well, so it's not a quick decision.

 

Telling someone how you feel is always better for you as an individual rather than hiding it. They're your parents and they love you, regardless of that book that gets misused so much. If they are good people and believe the good parts of the book, i.e: forgiveness and love, then they'll get over it.

 

My parents were very accepting that I'm an atheist, but we were pretty much non-practicing catholics growing up and me "coming out" as an atheist, was almost a natural progression for my family. My very catholic grandmother even accepted it, she just said she loved me no matter what. In saying that, I do believe that Ireland as a whole is becoming disillusioned with religion in the wake of the scandals involving the catholic church here...there was a LOT of truly awful things carried out by catholic priests and nuns in Ireland over a very long time. We're talking crimes against humanity here. Christians in America do seem, to the outsider, to be particularly devoted to the strict idea of the bible and certain interpretations of passages from it...so telling your parents about your beliefs could be a tricky one and I do not envy your task. But if they love you, they'll continue to love you.

 

This.  A Bajillion percent this.

 

Honestly, I'm still a cold heartless bastard.  If someone wants to cut me out of their life because of a realization I made as a fully-cognizant adult (as opposed to an indoctrinated child), they are welcome to the door.  The one family member who tried that though came around quickly enough when she realized how awesome I am in general (and humble, to boot).

 

As for the statue - I say leave it up.  You're an adult.  The best case scenario is they ignore it.  The mediocre response is they ask questions and prod a bit.  Worst case scenario is they storm out.  That's a 66.6% chance that nothing major comes of it (and I swear, I didn't intend for the percentage to be so punny).  Leave it up, and it can open a door.

 

Excellent points, and thank you both for your thoughtful comments.    it is a really hard issue, and I haven't thought about it for awhile, until I realized they were visiting and this could potentially come up.  I do feel reasonably sure that if/when they find out, it might not be a "few days" kind of thing.  I think there is a very real possibility that this could split me from my family for months or even years, regardless of how open-ended or welcoming I try to make the news to ease the shock.  I mean, maybe not....I could be totally wrong about that.  But, even if they don't talk to me for awhile, at least I won't feel like I'm hiding.

 

So, I think I've decided to just leave the statue and my meditation space (and our bookshelves, and our wall art, some of which is Buddhist/zen in nature) as is.  It is my home, and I am an adult, and I don't think just having those things around the house screams BUDDHIST.  I'll just leave it at that...if they ask questions, I can answer them, and if they ask me directly, I'll tell them that I'm a Buddhist practitioner.  If they don't ask, then I won't bring it up.  I don't really think it needs to be brought up and discussed; I just need to feel free to let my house be what it is (as an extension of me being who I am) without feeling like I have to overhaul my residence to hide all the stuff that might potentially make them uncomfortable. 

[Irish Oisin]

That sounds like a good plan! If they bring it up, then address is!

[cn3wton]

I believe in the power of faith.  In whatever an individual wants to put it in.

 

I was born into a family of Methodist Christians.  I am not a strict Christian.  I don't go every Sunday (mainly holidays), and would much rather be considered a good person than a "good Christian".  But one of the coolest things about it was when I went to join the church you took these classes to learn about the religion.  We actually went to different churches to see what different beliefs there were.  We even went to a synagogue.

[Thilde]

But one of the coolest things about it was when I went to join the church you took these classes to learn about the religion.  We actually went to different churches to see what different beliefs there were.  We even went to a synagogue.

 

Wow, that is super cool!  I wish my churches growing up had done that; it would have been neat to learn about the different religions/beliefs.  

[Raikas]

 But one of the coolest things about it was when I went to join the church you took these classes to learn about the religion.  We actually went to different churches to see what different beliefs there were.  We even went to a synagogue.

 

We had to take a World Religions course in high school, and that included a similar fieldtrip - we went to a local church, mosque, gurdwara, synagogue, Hindu temple and Buddhist temple.  The joke was that you could tell the missionary religions by the freebies - the Buddhists gave out sticks of incense and the Muslims and Christians had coffee and doughnuts, but the rest didn't have any free stuff.

[Artinum]

Reminiscent of Life of Pi - why not believe in three religions at once?

[Elder]

^^^ Yes I like this!  

[OtakuBosatsu]

I'm a Buddhist.  

[Barbarossa]

I spent quite a few years studying for the Soto Zen priesthood, but ultimately couldn't look past some fairly serious doctrinal and organizational doubts that I had, and left the sect.  So now I suppose I could be called a semi-practicing Zen Buddhist.  For me, the most important thing is to not be an asshole.  If I can get that down consistently and completely I'll worry about the rest.

[Thilde]

I'm a Buddhist.  

  Yay!  So glad to know there are others here.

 

I spent quite a few years studying for the Soto Zen priesthood, but ultimately couldn't look past some fairly serious doctrinal and organizational doubts that I had, and left the sect.  So now I suppose I could be called a semi-practicing Zen Buddhist.  For me, the most important thing is to not be an asshole.  If I can get that down consistently and completely I'll worry about the rest.

Soto zen is my school.    I'm definitely a lay-person so I am sure your immersion into the heart of the school is much more intense than mine, but I hear you about doctrinal doubts.  I personally have come to believe that they're everywhere, and no matter what religious pursuits I explore there are always going to be people (often powerful ones and leaders) with whom I disagree (often vehemently).  So far Soto zen feels like home...if I change enough (as people do) that it is no longer home, then I will move on. 

 

And I could not agree with you more re: not being an asshole.    For me, I just say to myself, "All I want to be is kind."  Doing all things with kindness is my ultimate spiritual goal.  It's a hard thing to strive for.  There are many times when I don't want to be kind. 

[Barbarossa]

  Yay!  So glad to know there are others here.

 

Soto zen is my school.    I'm definitely a lay-person so I am sure your immersion into the heart of the school is much more intense than mine, but I hear you about doctrinal doubts.  I personally have come to believe that they're everywhere, and no matter what religious pursuits I explore there are always going to be people (often powerful ones and leaders) with whom I disagree (often vehemently).  So far Soto zen feels like home...if I change enough (as people do) that it is no longer home, then I will move on. 

 

And I could not agree with you more re: not being an asshole.    For me, I just say to myself, "All I want to be is kind."  Doing all things with kindness is my ultimate spiritual goal.  It's a hard thing to strive for.  There are many times when I don't want to be kind. 

 

Glad to meet you :-)

 

Do you practice within one of the Western lineages (Okamura, Suzuki et al, etc)?

 

Regards,

 

P

[Thilde]

Glad to meet you :-)

 

Do you practice within one of the Western lineages (Okamura, Suzuki et al, etc)?

 

Regards,

 

P

Yup, Shunryu Suzuki > Mel Weitsman > Edward Espe Brown & Gil Fronsdal.    EEB has a special place in my heart.  I really and truly admire him, and his work has filled my life with so much hope, so I consider him to be my "teacher" even though I've only met him once.  I live very rurally and there are no Soto sanghas here, so I make do with my own independent dharma study and the power of the internets.    I do read and listen to teachings from other lineages and schools as well, but I keep coming home to Soto zen.