Tattoos in a conservative work place

[bigm141414]

Geez, this thread got snarky fast.

 

 

Yup. And I believe the OP had the question answered. It depends on the workplace circumstances and who you will be interacting with.

 

Day to day coworkers? Probably not a big deal.

In front of customers who are giving your company lots of money? Decently sized deal.

Customers of international origins that come from a different culture? Huge deal.  

 

Use common sense. 

[cline]

You are wise, my friend.

[MariahSnow]

Yup. And I believe the OP had the question answered. It depends on the workplace circumstances and who you will be interacting with.

 

Day to day coworkers? Probably not a big deal.

In front of customers who are giving your company lots of money? Decently sized deal.

Customers of international origins that come from a different culture? Huge deal.  

 

Use common sense. 

 

Didn't mean to start trouble. Just curious about the changing views on appearance and tattoos.

[cline]

I think it was a valid question. Work places are sooo different.

[porchcricket13]

It even varies hugely in my business. I'm in vet med. Some hospitals are more conservative than others. I was at one where they originally wanted me to cover my ears (I have pretty big plugs), they thought I could take them out at first. Eventually they realized that it didn't affect my performance in any way and not one client complained, in fact many had never seen it before so they just asked questions. That was a fancy hospital with national accreditation, so they were a bit higher end client wise. I've also been at a hospital with veterinarians who were fully sleeved. 

 

I usually cover most of mine for interviews but it's not logical to cover those that will show on the job. I have one on each wrist, 2 visible on my neck, and 1 behind my ear. The rest can be covered, though the 2 on my collar bone, and my upper arm piece sometimes show in scrubs.

[MissMormie]

To say you wish you could agree with me but... means you're willing to perpetuate this idea. All it takes for people to be sensible and comfortable is for people to admit it's all bull and not give a crap should a nice smelling, bearded, tattooed lady with blue hair come to sell them a system!

 

That's not what I meant. What I meant is that I would love for the world to work in a certain way, but that I know it doesn't. I do not belief there will ever be a time when appearance and image do not matter.

 

Looking at psychology humans judge easy and stereotypes are the norm. Not because people are mean or short sighted but because they help (or helped in the past) to determine who is part of your group and trustworthy and everyone else. With things like visible tattoos you can easily place yourself in the 'everyone else' group, which translates into a negative. Just look at every other type of discrimination like colour, gender, race, sexuality. If you're not the same you're an 'everyone else' and often seen as negative. 

 

During a job interview you want to prevent being placed in the 'everyone else' group because it'll be harder to convince someone you'd be good at the job AND fit in with the rest of the employees (because fit is important as well). Just imagine a Hells Angel (or someone who looks like a hells angel..) walking into an interview. It'll set a different mood than when the lady in the gray suit walks in. 

 

--

I have worked as a recruiter and have done hundreds of interviews with prospective employees. 

[cline]

That's not what I meant. What I meant is that I would love for the world to work in a certain way, but that I know it doesn't. I do not belief there will ever be a time when appearance and image do not matter.

 

Looking at psychology humans judge easy and stereotypes are the norm. Not because people are mean or short sighted but because they help (or helped in the past) to determine who is part of your group and trustworthy and everyone else. With things like visible tattoos you can easily place yourself in the 'everyone else' group, which translates into a negative. Just look at every other type of discrimination like colour, gender, race, sexuality. If you're not the same you're an 'everyone else' and often seen as negative. 

 

During a job interview you want to prevent being placed in the 'everyone else' group because it'll be harder to convince someone you'd be good at the job AND fit in with the rest of the employees (because fit is important as well). Just imagine a Hells Angel (or someone who looks like a hells angel..) walking into an interview. It'll set a different mood than when the lady in the gray suit walks in. 

 

--

I have worked as a recruiter and have done hundreds of interviews with prospective employees. 

 

Agreed.  It matters.  Not because it's "right" or "fair" <- the folks HERE know that.  BUT it matters.  It really does matter in some places.

 

For example, my place of work is urban but we get lots of folks in from the far far/country like suburbs and some from really rural places.  It matters to them. 

 

An interesting story - was talking to a friend with oodles of beautiful tats the other day.  She's in graphics and I said "that's awesome so you must be really comfortable in such an arty environment, my work isn't like that" and she said quite the opposite - her graphic design firm is actually very conservative so it's long sleeves for her most days. 

[KAllen]

What sucks is when a business or something changes it's rules after years of doing it one way.  The Marines instituted a "no show" policy after years of not caring.  I believe they were even saying that even if you had ink for years, like the globe & anchor on your forearm, you had to get it removed. Not 100% sure about that, maybe some leathernecks here can confirm that. 

 

NOPD even instituted a "no show" policy after years of not caring.  They aren't making it's officers remove them, just cover up.  They suggested long sleeves. Which is going to suck, because if you have been to NOLA in the summer, you know it can get 100+F w/ 90%+ humidity for 2-3 months.  Now add a ballistic vest to the mix, plus the 25lbs of gear on the belt, yeah...it ain't fun.

[cline]

Yeah I've seen those policies. Becoming more and more common. Interesting.

[Guest Dirty Deads]

I believe those policies are an attempt to halt progressivism and keep mindless drone soldiers. They are The Borg, there is no individualism allowed.  Only there's not much hope for Hugh with a tattoo.

[UltanBoyd]

I hear Costa in the UK have lifted their draconian rules on covering tats and piercings as they want people to appear more individual!

[cline]

Depends though.  Spousal unit works in UK regularly in a typical corporate place (IT/IS related) and visible tats would be a HUGE no no no no no! 

[Misugrrl]

I have a medium sized one on my outer left ankle, and no one in my work life has ever made mention of it, and I wear skirts all the time, and do community outreach for my non-profit.

 

I am planning on getting more tattoos, but the places I've chosen for them are easily covered, so they wouldn't be an issue.

[KAllen]

I was a teacher, now I'm a cop, I have 2 tats but both are covered by normal clothing.  I'm planning on getting a couple more but these too will be able to be covered by normal clothing. 

 

Just the way I am.  When I want to show them I can/will, if I need them covered, they are. 

[Cuckoo]

I have two: a little one on my forearm and a big one on my thigh.

 

I don't worry about the one on my forearm. People have seen it and have asked about it, but they only ask once and then ignore it.

 

As for the one on my leg, I'm a bit more conscious about that one as it's so big. I like to wear dresses to work. If it's quite a short dress I'll wear black tights (but most of the time you can still see the tattoo anyway). If the dress is a bit longer (e.g. just above my knee) I'll not wear any tights but you can still see the bottom of the tattoo. I've never worn a short dress without tights so that it's on full display. But no one's ever commented on it in a bad way. I've had questions about it but everyone generally just accepts it. They're kind of the norm now anyway...

[cline]

I just spent two days at a conference where my tattoos came up.  We were informally networking and I was in a sleeveless blouse.  An entire discussion ensued on the appropriateness of not hiring people with visible tattoos and how tattoos must be covered in our industry.  Everyone but me agreed.  And I had a jacket on most of the day for that very reason....  *sigh*

[I-Jo]

you work with idiots... that's been established already- so I'm less than surprised at this.

 

I work in a construction/engineer/operations field- seeing tattooed people is pretty normal for us- even in a state/government/white collar job. (All of my big bosses wear suits and ties to work- ALL of them except the two immediately above me- which are standard polo/oxford/slacks types.)

[Errah138]

Honestly if you want a tattoo then get it. If someone decides not to like you or not to hire you because of a tattoo that's just a reason, they will find another if they don't have one readily available. Your body belongs to you and other people's opinions really have no bearing on what you should do with it.

[Queen of Swords]

I dunno.  I've only got a couple small ones in somewhat discreet places.  My Christian symbol tramp stamp (can you say oxymoron?) is the only one that's occasionally visible if I'm stooping down to pick something up and my shirt hem shifts up.  I'm a secretary at the local university.  I wear low(er) cut tops, short(ish) skirts and don't care if my tattoo flashes occasionally.  I'm good at what I do, and my tattoos are my own business. I don't make a point of rubbing them in my anyone's face, especially at a first interview.  I think the girl who put her tattoo sleeves on display at her interview was testing her employer, like she had something to prove.  I don't give a damn about your tattoos, honey.  Can you do the job?  And can you contain your passive-aggressive insecurity well enough to present yourself professionally to the public?  Because frankly, they care even less about your fabulous tats than I do.  Show them off to someone who cares and quit trying to pick fights with people you work with.  They are a non-issue.  I'm in my late 30's and don't have a problem calling someone on their BS.  That's what 10 years of dealing with the public will do for you.  

 

Actually, although I need to maintain a somewhat professional appearance as "the face" of the department, I have no problem comparing tattoos with some of our grad students.  In fact, one of our grad students has a WELL-filled-out beard, wears sleeveless shirts and camo shorts, sports a mohawk and has a collection of very nice tattoos.  Now...he probably dressed in a suit for his interview with the department head, but I don't think he went as far as shaving his beard.  It's just eccentricity, and that fits in just fine around here.  Being a fight-picking jerk does not, however.

 

On a tangent here, but...  I remember one time (long time ago when I was in good shape) I was at the pharmacy and I stooped down to pick something up from the bottom shelf.  I went on my way and an older gentleman, probably in his 70's, approached me to tell me that he was sitting just across the way, getting his blood pressure checked when he saw me stooping down to pick up the item on the bottom shelf.  He said, "I saw your tattoo and you made my blood pressure jump up!" I was blushing furiously and I can't remember his compliment exactly, but he did compliment me and I remember being thoroughly charmed.  Old rascal.  

[Raikas]

Your body belongs to you and other people's opinions really have no bearing on what you should do with it.

 

Yeah, obviously your body belongs to you, but I do think other people's opinions do have a bearing on what you should do with it, at least if you have reasonable relationships with them and aren't independently wealthy.  Should they have the final say?  No, of course not - but if a tattoo is going to get you fired (and you need the job) or upset your grandmother (and you care about her opinion), what's so terrible about covering up? 

 

I work for a very large company - I see plenty of visible tattoos (and a variety of not-quite-standard business attire) in the office - on the internal HR folks, the IT folks, the arts and marketing design ones, the call centre drones and so on.  But not in the retail offices - they all dress very business casual and stylistically neutral.  And especially not the corporate sales guys, who all wear suits.

 

And none of these people have dress codes - but the ones whose living is based on impressing other people need to actually impress other people.  I spent 6 months in an office with the corporate sales guys, and it was fascinating to see how the people who didn't match the stereotype of the proper Canadian sales man would dress even better than the ones with more social power - Guys who were either white or east Asian with Canadian or British accents sometimes went without jackets or ties, but the ones with foreign accents always wore the jacket.  The south Asian guys, the black guys with Canadian accents and the women all wore jackets and ties (or scarves for the women).  And finally the black guys with accents and the one guy in a wheelchair wore jackets, ties and french cuffs.  And again: no dress code.   The company doesn't ask them to dress a certain way.  But they all did it anyway because how they dressed had a concrete effect on their sales.

 

And since covering up a tattoo is generally easier than covering up your colour/gender/accent/wheelchair (and if it's not because it's on a hand or face, that was ultimately still a choice), I just don't see why people take such offense at the idea that they might need to do that to be successful at certain specific jobs.

[Errah138]

I guess I just feel people should be judged on their merits and what they can do not what they look like whether that look is chosen or natural. It's a novel concept but I think it will catch on.

[UltanBoyd]

I just don't see why people take such offense at the idea that they might need to do that to be successful at certain specific jobs.

 

The inference therefore being that those with tattoos are deemed unable to do the job and therefore must lie to make it. I recognise that some jobs feel like they must look a certain way but why? Why is that the only way to look? Why is a functionally inefficient suit and tie the professional option? Why is a woman with a shaven head or a man with should length locks inherently not 'the image we were looking for?'

I heard it the otherday from someone. "I had long hair,I'm bearded and covered in tattoos but I felt suspisious when the assistant manager had the holes in his ears where he'd taken the plugs out." WTF! Someone with gauged ears can't be an assitant manager of a small 5 permanant staff company?

[cline]

well, if you want to work high up in companies and you value the work, you do what you need to do - right or wrong.  If you really really wanted a job b/c you believed in it and they said our policy is a hair net for everyone, would you bail on your career goal b/c you don't believe in hair nets?  or a uniform?  or safety equipment? 

 

I work in administration at a large, large place.  A place that relies on connections with a lot of other folks.  My spousal unit is in senior management in a global office.  Tattoos are not acceptable either place.  Yeah I could say "eff you" to the man, quit my job and work in lower management.  But I want a career.  When your day to day interaction is with the C suite, it matters.  When your day to day interaction is with clients with multi million dollar contracts, it matters.  When I was a senior administration with the government?  Meh nobody cared.  But honestly, that was government.  Government, non profits, and unis are all very different from the rest of business (and yes, I've worked at all of them and yes I've had administrative and/or management responsibilities at all of them). 

 

It depends on what you want as a career.  It's important that people can "fit in" in their work places - especially at high levels of administration. 

 

And yeah, it sucks there are perceptions of people with tattoos.  Yeah, I'm one of them.  But what's more important to me?  Making a point and losing out on a job I really want or getting a job I really want? It's just the world many of us work in - high end law firms, a lot of corporate America, etc.  Making a point saying "I'm free to be me" can, in many fields or offices, stall careers.  You really need to understand where you work and dress for where you want to go. 

 

And btw, the people I was talking to include national level consultants from one of the most successful organizations in the field.  They know how to lead and how to get orgs where they need to go.  And my co-worker and I were both networking and getting career advice.  This is a man I trust.  And he's not a super tight ass b/c it was over several drinks and his drink of choice was local beer. 

[Errah138]

It wasn't to long ago that women would not even have been allowed to hold upper management positions no matter how well they were dressed. Same for blacks and Asians. The only way to make social change happen is to bring it about. Businesses are in business to make money. And no matter what you look like if you can make more money then everyone else for any company you will get to the position you deserve.

[Raikas]

The inference therefore being that those with tattoos are deemed unable to do the job and therefore must lie to make it. I recognise that some jobs feel like they must look a certain way but why? Why is that the only way to look? Why is a functionally inefficient suit and tie the professional option? Why is a woman with a shaven head or a man with should length locks inherently not 'the image we were looking for?'

 

 

Because in any job that involves connections with other people, connecting with a wide variety of people is part of the job.  And if you want to work in those fields, then you need to play the game.  And it's not just a suit and tie - you wouldn't show up for a construction job in a tie and dress shoes and expect not to be sent home (or at least out to buy some safety boots), would you?

 

That some standards are more random than "safety requirements" is still a little arbitrary, yes - but there are historical reasons for that, and knowing that history is part of showing that you're a team player.  And again, not every job needs a customer-facing team player, but if that's the job you're aiming for then you need to act like it.

 

It wasn't to long ago that women would not even have been allowed to hold upper management positions no matter how well they were dressed. Same for blacks and Asians. The only way to make social change happen is to bring it about. Businesses are in business to make money. And no matter what you look like if you can make more money then everyone else for any company you will get to the position you deserve.

 

Hang on now - tattoos and piercings are choices people make.  They're decorations.  In my example upthread, did you read the bit about how people's colour/gender/accent/disability changed the way they dress?  Those things all still matter - they shouldn't, but they do.  And if someone is going to judge based on appearance, at least making that judgement based on a choice that the person made is going to be a hell of a lot more meaningful than things that just are.