Replacing crunches with planks?

[Guest Eduard]

Hi Rebellion,

My workouts are made of a chest exercise, a back exercise, a leg exercise, and a core exercise.

I'm trying to put emphasis on the big muscle groups and get the smaller ones worked a little through them (so I'm not training triceps specifically but I do push-ups, I'm not training biceps specifically but I do chin-ups, I'm not training glutes specifically but I do squats and supermans, etc.), and since the abs don't really seem like a big muscle and they get worked during many other exercises anyway, I thought I can replace crunches (that work only the abs and nothing else) with planks (that, being done between a chest and a back exercise in a circuit, also put some tension on my shoulders and triceps).

What do you think? Should I really have in my routine an abs-only exercise?

Thanks a lot!

[bigm141414]

Hmm not really any use to "train your abs". What many people fail to realize is they have abs in spades, but they can't see them because of the body fat. Doing squats is a great ab work out as you have to maintain tension during the lift.

So I say, ditch the crnuches and do planks. Nothing wrong with planks.

[aj_rock]

If you do squats and/or deadlifts, your core will grow. No need to isolate abs at all really, since even a plank is essentially a push-up with just the up part.

[gugi9000]

When the planks are becoming to easy, replace with inch worms.

[Loren Wade]

Leg Raises > Planks > Crunches.

In my opinion. Planks are brutal, but a progression of leg raises will get you ripped abs just the same and more efficiently.

PS: I agree with Bigm.

PPS: if you like bodyweight exercise, check out Convict Conditioning. Strength progressions for the major muscle groups. Many of us here follow it.

[Guest Eduard]

@big

Thanks. Yes, I knew that you should have up to 12% / 7% bodyfat for visible abs, I was more worried by the fact that, since they have to sustain our spine and upper body, they should be trained to be strong enough. Source. That's why I wanted to make sure they get at least a little training.

@aj

Great answer, thanks a lot!

@gugi

I'll check them out, thanks a lot for the suggestion.

@Loren

Awesome, I'll check out leg raises now, and I might add them to my routine the next year. The reason why I wanted to do planks is that they also hit a little the shoulders and triceps.

[scarletleavy]

Leg Raises > Planks > Crunches.

In my opinion. Planks are brutal, but a progression of leg raises will get you ripped abs just the same and more efficiently.

I totally agree, leg raises are absolutely awesome. I try to work them in whenever possible.

Planks are great because there are so many variations, so you can always change them up. I'm all about the side planks with leg raises at the moment. But yeah, definitely give planks a go.

[bigm141414]

@big

Thanks. Yes, I knew that you should have up to 12% / 7% bodyfat for visible abs, I was more worried by the fact that, since they have to sustain our spine and upper body, they should be trained to be strong enough. Source. That's why I wanted to make sure they get at least a little training.

Insert Rippetoe's Abs Article for fun time reading. It's a good read if you have 10 min.

[Guest Eduard]

@scarlet

Thank you! If you know any variations that work the shoulders or triceps even more, please show me.

@big

I read it a while ago from his website, but I didn't really understand it back then. I'll check it out again, thank you.

[WizardTrip]

Leg Raises > Planks > Crunches.

In my opinion. Planks are brutal, but a progression of leg raises will get you ripped abs just the same and more efficiently.

PS: I agree with Bigm.

PPS: if you like bodyweight exercise, check out Convict Conditioning. Strength progressions for the major muscle groups. Many of us here follow it.

Agreed! Leg raises are part of my Friday routine. I get much more out of them than I ever do with crunches.

[jdanger]

Planks are great. Weighted planks once you're ready, even greater. Using them to bring up weaknesses identified in the big compound lifts, greatest.

And normally I don't make such brash unqualified statements but crunches can suck it. Leg raises, we're cool. If they were a person I'd be friends with them.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Big, it's a good read for why plyometrics aren't good for getting abs. The only thing he misses is that some people actually do want strength in the sit-up motion, which they are good for.

[scotticus]

If you do squats and/or deadlifts, your core will grow. No need to isolate abs at all really, since even a plank is essentially a push-up with just the up part.

This. I've seen the most noticable changes in terms of definition, muscle hardness, and awesomeness increases since I ditched these exercises and started doing MOAR SQUATS (they're not really heavy yet, but they're getting there slowly but surely - +15lbs per week).

[Guest Eduard]

Sounds great, guys, thanks to each one of you for the comments.

[ETFnerd]

I think the main difference is that planks are static and situps, legraises, crunches are dynamic. You probably should work both. Just alternate days.

Because I do sport karate sparring, I like dynamic core work. If I wanted to hold 300lbs over my head, I'd do more static. You train for the sport you are trying to excel at.

Also leg raises target lower abs, crunches target upper abs, so they tend to be isolation exercises at precise angles. I spar so I kick high, low and at different angles in free form. I also work acceleration in kicks and accuracy from different positions so I target the core muscles in many variations. For me it's important to develop my hip flexor along with my abs as i generally turn over my kicks.

One of the things that I think is limiting in lifting is that you develop strength and flexibility along only one set track dictated by correct form. As you deviate from that track, strength and flexibility diminishes dramatically. If you do just the basic lifts, incorporating some of the BW and calesthenics stuff once in a while may be helpful. Most people in beginning stages, just starting to learn can wait until their 3rd or 4th cycle, when you've built your foundation solidly, to start worrying about this though.

There are many ways to think about it, but it helps to work backwards from your goal. What do you want to get out of it? and then backfill exercises to get to that point.

[jdanger]

I think the main difference is that planks are static and situps, legraises, crunches are dynamic. You probably should work both. Just alternate days.

Because I do sport karate sparring, I like dynamic core work. If I wanted to hold 300lbs over my head, I'd do more static. You train for the sport you are trying to excel at.

Also leg raises target lower abs, crunches target upper abs, so they tend to be isolation exercises at precise angles. I spar so I kick high, low and at different angles in free form. I also work acceleration in kicks and accuracy from different positions so I target the core muscles in many variations. For me it's important to develop my hip flexor along with my abs as i generally turn over my kicks.

One of the things that I think is limiting in lifting is that you develop strength and flexibility along only one set track dictated by correct form. As you deviate from that track, strength and flexibility diminishes dramatically. If you do just the basic lifts, incorporating some of the BW and calesthenics stuff once in a while may be helpful. Most people in beginning stages, just starting to learn can wait until their 3rd or 4th cycle, when you've built your foundation solidly, to start worrying about this though.

There are many ways to think about it, but it helps to work backwards from your goal. What do you want to get out of it? and then backfill exercises to get to that point.

This is legit advice. Basic rule I use is a trainee must demonstrate static stabilization/strength as a prerequisite to any training that requires dynamic stabilization (read: almost everything I do). The requirements for each person/athlete are obviously different but most of the time planking represents one of the best ways to test for a weakness and also correct it (via strengthening). For practical purposes strength gains elicited through isometric (static) exercises like planks will transfer to dynamic stuff. Especially when you are talking about obtaining a basic level of strength to maintain stability. Once someone can stabilize and knows how to turn things like their glutes on, then they are prepared to handle more advanced levels of training, sport and life. Dealing with rotational forces is the next step and is a huge component of preparing for most sports and follows the same tract. If you're in a rotational sport (almost all of them) you are going to show me static and specifically anti-rotational stability before we think about rotating in the gym.

[ETFnerd]

This is totally off topic but I thought I'd throw in a totally wacky exercise for balance and stabilization. One old instructor taught me this and I haven't done it in years, but it taught me stability and feel on one leg, something that kickers really need.

In the 80's gyms had shag carpet (thankfully not that deep). Imagine how that smells on a balmy August afternoon after people sweating on it every day. He had us hop around the dojo in squat position (~75-100ft). Then he would have us wall sit for a minute and a half. At this point our legs were shot. Then he gave each one of us a grape and we had to roll it on the carpet around the dojo using only the bottom of our feet. Once around with the left foot and once with the right foot for time. If you step on it and crush it, you had to eat it off the carpet, if you didn't crush it, you just tossed it in the garbage. Give it a shot for yourself at a quick pace. I ate a few grapes off the nasty shag carpet...

[Guest Eduard]

@ETFnerd

That's a really nice and long answer... and the story from your 2nd post is great as well. )

Regarding your question about what I'm trying to do... did you intend to ask me what I'm training for, or what I want to get from the core exercise? If it's the second, I want to mostly train my bigger muscle groups (you know, the ones that are visible with a shirt on) but have my abs strong enough to support my back and never have back pains or something like this.

[ETFnerd]

Eddie, for those purposes, DL and Squat should be more than enough. When you're lifting heavy you will need your core muscles strong to avert injury. When I was lifting heavy, the only injuries I ever got were from lifting.