Men ONLY please...

[Sloth the Enduring]

Now I wish I really did go to the gym... Men, I have a request. When something like the above happens to you, ogle twice as hard for me. If you catch any flack, just tell them I told you to do it, they'll understand.

Here's a couple of ogling stories for you.

On our road trip we stayed at a KOA near LaSalle Ill. It was full of sunburnt, drunk college aged people. I noticed a trio of young women because they had the same Scamp Trailer as us, that and that booty shorts with sayings on the butt ("Pink, Cheer, Greek letters"). It was too hot to sleep, so I was wandering around at three in the morning when I heard giggling, laughing, and shrieking. The drapes were drawn, but in silhouette I could see them grabbing each other, tickling, wrestling, and hitting each other with pillows. I couldn't move, I was transfixed as I thought, "God Damn. I knew that that happened in real life."

Today I was biking though campus, the road I take was torn up, so I was on the sidewalk. A real head turner walked by. She looked like a young, tanner Selma Hayek. While my head was turned I didn't notice that the sidewalk ended with a short flight of steps. Luckily my mad biking skills allowed me to ride it out and act like I meant to ride there, 'cause the ramp 3' to the right was too far away.

[leadchipmunk]

Snake, you are a good man and any woman should be honored to have you. And you seem to know that in a totally not arrogant way (hard to pull of, kudos bro). At least now, you can take it a little easier on the schooling, right?

booty shorts with sayings on the butt ("Pink, Cheer, Greek letters").

I don't read Greek, but I am intent to learn...

[161803398874989]

Snake, you are a good man and any woman should be honored to have you. And you seem to know that in a totally not arrogant way (hard to pull of, kudos bro). At least now, you can take it a little easier on the schooling, right?

I don't read Greek, but I am intent to learn...

It's not that hard.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

It's not that hard.

She must not work out then...

[Guest Snake McClain]

She must not work out then...

LOL

[Mordechaj]

A bit personal question Snake - how long did you date before things got intense (future plans, moving in together ideas...)?

[Guest Snake McClain]

Now she wants to keep dating. But she wants the option of dating others still...we are supposed to go out tonight. For dinner. I dunno. I have to decide if its worth it for me to pursue her of she's going to keep me at a distance from here on. But I'm going to go in with the best attitude. I'm amazing. She's amazing and she needs to remember that and will. (This is me being positive) . I'm sure it will he fine. Ill regret it down the road if I didn't give it another chance. She's worth the possibility of being hurt.

And we spent almost every night for a month together to answer your question. Yes it was a bit quick (thus why she is scared) but it was both our doing. She needs to realize that.

[Mordechaj]

No matter how much time did you spend together, it's still just a month. You need way more time to truly get to know someone, to know what to expect from that person in a given situation. You can both be amazing for a month, for four or even 6 months, but I wouldn't recommend making big plans if you are not serious for sometime between one and two years. It's not to say that you or she are deceiving in those first months, but that both your perceptions are a bit off, you are having a crush, etc.

Her behaviour would make me extremely weary.

[Zima]

Judging by the size of this thread, I feel like there needs to be a "no girls allowed" subforum. Apparently, the male population of NF is tired of the female population of NF being all up in their business....

And snake, what the hell is up with this girl? She's acting weird. I would say "I don't do casual relationships" and end it myself, because the "seeing other people" thing is just not acceptable to me. Also, have you thought about *why* she wants to see other people? Is it because she thinks you are not ideal for her and there may be someone better? Does she just want some company until she finds someone else? If that's it, she's not going to suddenly change her mind. Why would you try to be with someone when she doesn't think you're right for her? She already broke up with you once. I think you need to sit down and have a serious talk with her and figure out where she is, mentally, and what is it she's trying to get from you. Also, the non-face-to-face break-up is unacceptable. Tonight is your time to call her out on this type of nonsense. Don't let someone walk all over you. Ever. It's not good for you, and she won't respect you if you allow her to carry on acting like this.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

Judging by the size of this thread, I feel like there needs to be a "no girls allowed" subforum. Apparently, the male population of NF is tired of the female population of NF being all up in their business....

The women would still read it, we've established this. Not what it's for anyway. The title serves to warn women there may be more man type content and subjects here that we aren't comfortable with them just opening up or aim long upon and beig offended. Plus, as we established just a few posts ago, many of the comments they have made have been extremely helpful.

[Guest Snake McClain]

No matter how much time did you spend together, it's still just a month. You need way more time to truly get to know someone, to know what to expect from that person in a given situation. You can both be amazing for a month, for four or even 6 months, but I wouldn't recommend making big plans if you are not serious for sometime between one and two years. It's not to say that you or she are deceiving in those first months, but that both your perceptions are a bit off, you are having a crush, etc.

Her behaviour would make me extremely weary.

I agree. It hasn't been long enough to really know someone. I'm with you there for sure. But any new relationship that's exciting people talk about the future and what it could be.

Judging by the size of this thread, I feel like there needs to be a "no girls allowed" subforum. Apparently, the male population of NF is tired of the female population of NF being all up in their business....

And snake, what the hell is up with this girl? She's acting weird. I would say "I don't do casual relationships" and end it myself, because the "seeing other people" thing is just not acceptable to me. Also, have you thought about *why* she wants to see other people? Is it because she thinks you are not ideal for her and there may be someone better? Does she just want some company until she finds someone else? If that's it, she's not going to suddenly change her mind. Why would you try to be with someone when she doesn't think you're right for her? She already broke up with you once. I think you need to sit down and have a serious talk with her and figure out where she is, mentally, and what is it she's trying to get from you. Also, the non-face-to-face break-up is unacceptable. Tonight is your time to call her out on this type of nonsense. Don't let someone walk all over you. Ever. It's not good for you, and she won't respect you if you allow her to carry on acting like this.

I've definitely considered that. And that's the thing that's beating me up. Why does she still feel the need to have an option? No she hasn't gone out with anyone else but why is of even a consideration? When someone shoes up in a persons life ans they are important...or if the person is exciting enough the very idea of other options goes away. There is simply no meed for it. If give spent almost every night for a month with a person and practically tell that man you're in love with him (or that you're falling for him) and then still want options...that makes no sense.

OR she could be telling the truth when she says "I just don't want to commit until I know its right and if I don't have the option to date other people then I feel trapped this early."and and "I just need some time for my heart to catch up to yours." ...see those are the things that confuse me. She isn't the manipulating type. She is straight forward. I think she's just confused. I hope she is anyway.

[BarefootDawsy]

I agree. It hasn't been long enough to really know someone. I'm with you there for sure. But any new relationship that's exciting people talk about the future and what it could be.

I've definitely considered that. And that's the thing that's beating me up. Why does she still feel the need to have an option? No she hasn't gone out with anyone else but why is of even a consideration? When someone shoes up in a persons life ans they are important...or if the person is exciting enough the very idea of other options goes away. There is simply no meed for it. If give spent almost every night for a month with a person and practically tell that man you're in love with him (or that you're falling for him) and then still want options...that makes no sense.

OR she could be telling the truth when she says "I just don't want to commit until I know its right and if I don't have the option to date other people then I feel trapped this early."and and "I just need some time for my heart to catch up to yours." ...see those are the things that confuse me. She isn't the manipulating type. She is straight forward. I think she's just confused. I hope she is anyway.

Sounds to me like she's just a bit unsure and scared like you say Snake. The seeing other people thing may just be her way of saying that she doesn't want a full on relationship with weddings and all that right now. When you talk to her try to confirm this. If she really does want to see other people then end it but otherwise just try to put her mind at ease that you're not planning a life together just yet. Take the first few months slowly and just enjoy being with each other without any added pressure.

[Guest Snake McClain]

Sounds to me like she's just a bit unsure and scared like you say Snake. The seeing other people thing may just be her way of saying that she doesn't want a full on relationship with weddings and all that right now. When you talk to her try to confirm this. If she really does want to see other people then end it but otherwise just try to put her mind at ease that you're not planning a life together just yet. Take the first few months slowly and just enjoy being with each other without any added pressure.

Agreed.

[leadchipmunk]

Now she wants to keep dating. But she wants the option of dating others still...

This is a big NO for me. I've been through it, and it was hell. Makes you feel just about worthless. Pretty much the only thing worse is the "I have things that I need to change about myself, will you just wait for me?" deal where she breaks up with you, you wait for her to come back (because you had her word that she would) and she goes off dating others.

The seeing other people thing may just be her way of saying that she doesn't want a full on relationship with weddings and all that right now. When you talk to her try to confirm this. If she really does want to see other people then end it but otherwise just try to put her mind at ease that you're not planning a life together just yet. Take the first few months slowly and just enjoy being with each other without any added pressure.

That's what I think you should do. You obviously care for her, so talk it out and find out if she actually wants to date others or if it is a way for her to step the seriousness down. If it is the latter, get her to agree not to see others, and just take some time for yourselves (don't see each other every day, maybe down to 4 days a week or so). See if that helps. Maybe she just feels like it is moving too quick and she feels she's being suffocated (even if part of that was her choice).

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

What's wrong with dating others? I was in relationships when I was younger and I did this and it wasn't an issue as long as we were open about it. Let her see other people. She either won't actually see anyone else and just wants to feel free to do so or she will see others. If she sees others, she'll pick you'd down the line if that's what's meant to be or she won't if it isn't. Keep it loose and give her space, sounds like she may need it.

[leadchipmunk]

I am not a fan of seeing other people. After a couple dates and you associate that you two are together, I think it is time for a more committed relationship. That doesn't mean spend every minute together (though nothing wrong with that if both are ok with it), but it just means you are only dating one person. And I especially don't agree with going from committed relationship to seeing other people (as well as the one you were committed to).

I'm all for giving space, I'm just not for moving backwards to seeing other people.

[RaeVynn]

Suggestion:

Look for the book "Mars and Venus on a Date" by John Gray. Might help with some of the "translation" issues of cross-species dating...

[Zima]

What's wrong with dating others? I was in relationships when I was younger and I did this and it wasn't an issue as long as we were open about it. Let her see other people. She either won't actually see anyone else and just wants to feel free to do so or she will see others. If she sees others, she'll pick you'd down the line if that's what's meant to be or she won't if it isn't. Keep it loose and give her space, sounds like she may need it.

Not everyone does this. To some, a relationship is exclusive. Hence the term "cheating." To others, they're not. Some people have open relationships, others don't. When I call something a "relationship", it means we went on several dates/hung out quite a bit, and feel like there's a chance that we've met "the one", so to speak. We've likely fallen in love and hope that this is "the one". If not, it's "this girl I went on a few dates and/or hung out with for a bit." Not "my girlfriend." The difference is *HUGE*, and the latter implies complete exclusivity. Obviously I only date girls that are on the same page when it comes to such things.

Snake - I don't think she's confused, it sounds like she just doesn't want to say "hey, you're nice, but you're not the one." But hey, I could be wrong.

[leadchipmunk]

Not everyone does this. To some, a relationship is exclusive. Hence the term "cheating." To others, they're not. Some people have open relationships, others don't. When I call something a "relationship", it means we went on several dates/hung out quite a bit, and feel like there's a chance that we've met "the one", so to speak. We've likely fallen in love and hope that this is "the one". If not, it's "this girl I went on a few dates and/or hung out with for a bit." Not "my girlfriend." The difference is *HUGE*, and the latter implies complete exclusivity. Obviously I only date girls that are on the same page when it comes to such things.

That's basically what I was trying to say, but didn't quite get the words out right.

[BarefootDawsy]

OK guys, it's not so much a man-specific question, but since you're the best source of advice on the web, here goes!

There's a lot of back story and history to this, but I'll give you the bullet point version:

Basically my family doesn't seem to like my 3 year old kid, and pretty much ignores my wife.

My kid gets disapproving glances and comments, even though he's not doing anything that his cousins (who are golden children) do the same and worse, and even get complimented on it. He's a normal 3 year old, who has the occasional moment, but is generally a really good-natured, social, and friendly kid.

My wife of 11 years has basically been ostracised since we got married. She's mostly ignored, but nobody's openly rude to her (though they can be very rude "inadvertently").

I raised the issue with my mum years ago and after denying any wrongdoing, my family didn't speak to me for a year.

The problem is that I feel now that I can't say anything to my family lest I be shunned again, but I can't put up with my child/wife being mistreated any longer. The current answer is to just keep the 2 physically separated as much as possible, but this is just a band-aid, and not a real solution.

What can I do to fix this situation? What would you do in my place?

[leadchipmunk]

Not the best advice, but the only advice I can give. If I was in your situation, I would have a sit down with as much of the family together as possible (I know how hard it can be to get everyone together at once), include your wife in this. Try to find out why they dislike your son and wife and work towards a compromise. If it was me, my wife and kids would come before anything else, so I'd let the family know this and tell them that unless they start treating them with the respect they give everyone else, I am done with the family.

I personally am not above making threats of this nature and am completely fine with following them through. And I have no problems with self-induced ostracism. I understand that not everyone is capable of this though, so it may not work with everyone.

[161803398874989]

Well, I'm not qualified to give advice in this in the slightest. But I would try to sit their ass down and tell what is up. Tell, not ask. Then go into dialog afterwards. But you really have to make your point clear first, come up with good examples.

[Artinum]

What's wrong with dating others? I was in relationships when I was younger and I did this and it wasn't an issue as long as we were open about it. Let her see other people. She either won't actually see anyone else and just wants to feel free to do so or she will see others. If she sees others, she'll pick you'd down the line if that's what's meant to be or she won't if it isn't. Keep it loose and give her space, sounds like she may need it.

I had a relationship like that. My partner wanted to be able to see other people (which meant I could too - but I never saw any point in it). What did I get out of this? Crabs and scabies.

Basically my family doesn't seem to like my 3 year old kid, and pretty much ignores my wife.

My kid gets disapproving glances and comments, even though he's not doing anything that his cousins (who are golden children) do the same and worse, and even get complimented on it. He's a normal 3 year old, who has the occasional moment, but is generally a really good-natured, social, and friendly kid.

My wife of 11 years has basically been ostracised since we got married. She's mostly ignored, but nobody's openly rude to her (though they can be very rude "inadvertently").

I raised the issue with my mum years ago and after denying any wrongdoing, my family didn't speak to me for a year.

Good grief! Whatever is going on here? Sounds like they're prejudiced against your wife (and thus your half-whatever child as well) but are unwilling to explain why. Is this a mixed race relationship, or a religious difference? Or even a mix of social classes? You've married someone your family disapproves of, but they don't want to come out and say so as this will both make them look bad and drive you away. And it'll sound silly, too (which it is).

I'm leaning towards mixed race over the other options as it extends to your son - if it were just a religious thing they'd more likely just ostracise her. But all that said, I have no idea about your wife's (or your family's) background, so I'm just making wild guesses here.

You've got two options, really, aside from the band-aid approach (which is actually very common). You can confront your family or disown them. I'd lean towards the latter myself but then I've never been a big family person anyway. I love my mother but she's about all the family I'm really that close to. If you confront them, you'll risk driving them off - there's no guarantee you'll learn anything from it. You might want to talk to your family one at a time - start with mother, say, on her own. As a group, they're likely to clam up.

[JediJem]

What can I do to fix this situation? What would you do in my place?

Having been on the wife-end of pretty much exactly this scenario (although we did not have kids), my advice would be that you may have to accept that this situation cannot be fixed. You have been with your wife for a long time and have tried to resolve it in the past to no avail - if there are no obvious 'reasons' and your family refuse to acknowledge there is even a situation to fix, it is unlikely to be resolved now. Keeping the two completely separate is perhaps your only option. It is more or less what we did (we are divorced now); my husband saw his family on his own (although not that often, because he was thoroughly fed up with their attitude at that point too), and I did not mind in the slightest being kept out of it. Of course your situation is different as you've got a kid and I can understand that you want him to know his family, but it sounds like you've done what YOU could - which is commendable - and this has to be something both parties want to resolve.

(In my case, my flaw (as far as we could work out) was not being British, and there wasn't really an awful lot I could do about that...oh, and too independent and not house-wifey enough too!)

[Church]

That's a complicated situation. Unfortunately I have no real experience in this arena (girls/relationships). Though I DO seem to get a lot of "it's not you, it's me. You're an amazing guy, some girl will be super lucky to find you. And, let's be friends. Usually preceded or followed by girls bitching about how all guys are assholes and just want a nice normal guy who won't toy with their emotions.) personally I find this type of behavior to be hurtful and manipulative, and usually ill-intended.

I also know that friends have friend the "let's see other people on the side" thing, and it's EXTREMELY hurtful to one party and can be detrimental to the relationship if one person starts seeing someone else while the other does not (weather because the don't find anyone, or don't want to)

I also know that I irritates the hell out of me when I try get ahold of my friends and they don't get back to me. Now keep in mind, these are just friends, but I know how I feel when someone important to me can't even take the time to text back "hey I'm super busy, can I get back to you?", and I KNOW it'll be 1000 times worse if love could potentially be on the line.

Just something to keep in mind.