Men ONLY please...

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I see this sort of thing a lot in my relationship. My wife grew up wanting to be an engineer majorly because there weren't many women in the field and she is huge on us being equal in the relationship and her not assuming the typical housewife roles.

However, she still expects me to assume all the masculine roles that benefit her such as being chivalrous, doing the yardwork, planning out romantic dates, planning out valentines day, etc.

I don't really have a problem with doing those things or with the imbalance because I'm used to it after almost 10 years in a relationship with her, but wanted to bring to up because I see it in a lot of other relationships as well.

[Jcannon98188]

This is precisely what this video is getting at. That men often still see the world through caveman eyes; the world is scary and harsh and we need to protect the ones we love from it. in a heterosexual relationship, this usually means the man defending the woman. So the man is ready to give up his life to defend the woman, and the woman is ready to give up her agency to protect the family. stereotypical gender roles essentially.

in the modern world, particularly the western 1st world, this set up isn't particularly necessary, and feminism argues that women should no longer have to give up their agency in this manner. BUT they still expect men to "man up" and defend women (or womens honour) if/when the need arises. the video puts forward that feminists want out of the traditional bargain, but want men to stick to their role.

and that's the kicker isn't it. try telling your girlfriend "woman up and stay in the house and keep it ready for the family" and see how that flies. but in that mugger situation, you can bet your bottom dollar that everyone would tell you to "man up and defend your family". in both cases a person is giving up their safety, their agency, their humanity, to fulfill a role.

now i don't believe that women should fulfill this role; i don't think they should stay at home and be in the kitchen or whatever. i don't think a man should stand between them and the world in any way, be that good or bad, safe or dangerous. and i don't think women should expect men to hold the shield on the principle, waiting for the call to use it.

Except that only applies in the Man/Woman relationship. As part of my own religious beliefs, and my definition of what it is to be a man, I would sacrifice just about anything to save another person. This is simply out of love for other people, (which I should point out in this case is not love in the romantic way but love more of a deep respect or caring for another) even people I have never met before.

Another reason, atleast for me, is that I would sacrifice for another simply because I would hope that if the role was reversed, someone would sacrifice for me. So while in a Man/Woman relationship, yes this analysis (offered by both you and the lady in the video) applies, but outside of that it kind of starts to lose ground. Just IMO.

[Jcannon98188]

I see this sort of thing a lot in my relationship. My wife grew up wanting to be an engineer majorly because there weren't many women in the field and she is huge on us being equal in the relationship and her not assuming the typical housewife roles.

However, she still expects me to assume all the masculine roles that benefit her such as being chivalrous, doing the yardwork, planning out romantic dates, planning out valentines day, etc.

I don't really have a problem with doing those things or with the imbalance because I'm used to it after almost 10 years in a relationship with her, but wanted to bring to up because I see it in a lot of other relationships as well.

The way I see things like this, and the way I plan to raise any daughters I might have in the future, is to except/accept a man to take care of them, but never rely on it. I want them to have a job, and an education so that they will be able to take care of themselves if need be, but I also expect someone to man up and take care of them sort of thing. No matter what society says I still think that a womans primary 'job' is to care for the home/children/family whatever, and for the man to be 'the provider', but this does not necesarilly mean that I think women should be helpless and ONLY stay in the home..... if that makes sense.

[azsf]

True enough jcannon, and yes the video is specifically talking about man/woman relationships because it's dealing with feminism. But...

you say you would sacrifice anything to save another person, and that's what you call being a man. would you expect a woman to do the same? to do the same for you maybe? what if that sacrifice was one person for another (the burning building debate)?

you can then take this same idea to a more modern setting with finances; would you give up your job so someone else can keep theirs? surely not as bad as dying (and not seen as noble), but it can and probably will have pretty negative effects on your life and the people who depend on you.

personally i'd rather fight for something than die for it. besides what we're told of martyrdom, it's not particularly effective.

[smedly]

Alright well where to begin... I'll try and keep this short enough while still getting all the important stuff across but feel free to ask about any details or clarifications.

So I dated a girl from the beginning of my junior year of high school until spring of my senior year. After that I dated another girl for 3 weeks and went to prom with her but I should not have dated her since I was nowhere near over my ex. Will about a week later my ex and I are basically together again but nothing public or official. Not as far as friends with benefits but pretty close. I implied to her that we could try and make things work for the summer and then once we both go to college start dating again. Therefore, I was not looking at any other girls. Well apparently since I didn't tell her this outright she decided she liked some 23 year old from her church when she was only 18. In my opinion this was just plain creepy and hurt me more than anything else. The rest of my summer was a really bad time for me.

Start freshman semester of college. The college is about the size of my high school (2k students including graduate students) and she is the same major as me so I see her plenty. I HATED her. After what we had been through it was either I loved her or I hated her and this was the only time I hated someone this much. Hating someone to this degree is not fun and takes effort and if it continued it was going to tear me apart. So after the first week I talk to her and we agree to try and be friends (bad idea) and things are up and down for a week. It was a very complicated week that I can't explain fully but basically I was trying to get her away from her boyfriend and maybe even break up with him. I am not proud of this but it was a bad time like I said. That week ended up with her building up my hopes about the friendship and then with her jumping ship and totally blocking me out on Friday. She wouldn't answer her phone and blocked me on fb and I had no idea why. I freaked out and ran into her outside and asked her what was going on and all she said was she couldn't talk to me and ran off. This really hurt me more and set up my not so great first semester of college. I still hated her and any mention of her or just seeing her gave me this bad feeling inside. I got through the first semester and found out she was transferring back to our hometown college the next semester. Good riddance I said and thought that was the last time I would see her.

Fast forward to February of the spring semester and suddenly Le wild fb message appears from her. Basically she said she felt terrible about the way she had treated me and such. Well I replied saying I wasn't so proud of that time either and such. We ended up meeting up one of the weekends I was back at home from college and just talked. We were both friendly and such and she said she still wanted to keep in touch with me and know how I was doing. Well like I said earlier it was either I love her or I wanted nothing to do with her and since she didn't want to date anyone at the time well I said by again and thought it would be the last I saw of her again. I blocked her on my fb just because I didn't want to see the next profile picture of her and some guy.

Last week I finally came to terms with everything that happened and forgave her and myself and decided to unblock her just cause. Surprisingly there wasn't a guy in her profile picture and just yesterday another wild message appeared from her- (edited for security's sake)

Hey Smedly.

I noticed you popped up on my Facebook the other day and I just wanted to say hi.

I hope your job at BLM is going well and I hope you are having a good summer!

I'll talk to you soon.

--Derpette--

I had been resisting the urge to message her and let her know I forgave her and was surprised to get this. In all honesty a day hasn't gone by that I haven't thought of her at least once. I do miss her and thing that all the stress that ended our relationship came from having overbearing parents and all the stuff going on in our lives. For her it was classes, band, and her family. For me it was classes, band, ROTC, and trying to get in the Naval Academy. I've tried everything to move on from her but have not been able to at all. She still appears in my dreams that used to be nightmares where she was with another guy but now in my dreams she is single or with me whenever they occur. What I am not sure about is if I should respond to this message, and if so how? More than likely I will end up responding but I wanted your opinions on the matter. I don't know what she wants or what's happening in her life right now.

That is basically the short story right there. A little more background on her- She lives with her mother and younger (bitchy) sister who told her not to talk to me during the whole first semester fiasco. She talks to her dad a little but he left their mom early in her life.

One more thing I don't really feel comfortable dating another girl and haven't since her. This is both due to me thinking it would be unfair to date someone while this girl still pops into my head everyday and I honestly still have feelings for her.

That's all I can think to say right now. I'm going to get some sleep and will address all replies in the timeliest manner possible. Thanks to all who take the time to read this and sorry the is no TL;DR.

[Jcannon98188]

I think that life is too short to not be on good terms with people. You obviously care about this girl. I guess I'll give the same advice I gave myself when it came to a girl that I liked (which I posted about a few posts back).

(And this advice came through a monologue to myself, so I am going to monolog here )

Life is too short to hold a grudge. And life is definitely too short to give up on those whom you love and care for. I am a man, and men don't give up. EVER. If something is absent in their lives, they FIGHT for it. Giving up is for the weak. The only person that I have control over is myself, and nothing I do can change how she feels about me, but I swear, wether this friendship works out or not will NOT be because of ME or something that I did. I will fight for this to work, till the very end, and if it fails, it will be because she decided it was not worth it. Swallow your pride, and make things right.

Anyways, that was the verbal abuse I gave myself the other day:P I feel like (slightly modified) this applies to your problem as well smedly. You like this girl, now decide if she is worth fighting for. And if she is, never give up. Even if you never date her again, even if you are only going to be friends, do not let her go. And if she is not worth fighting for, then be a Man, and don't fake it.

[Jcannon98188]

True enough jcannon, and yes the video is specifically talking about man/woman relationships because it's dealing with feminism. But...

you say you would sacrifice anything to save another person, and that's what you call being a man. would you expect a woman to do the same? to do the same for you maybe? what if that sacrifice was one person for another (the burning building debate)?

you can then take this same idea to a more modern setting with finances; would you give up your job so someone else can keep theirs? surely not as bad as dying (and not seen as noble), but it can and probably will have pretty negative effects on your life and the people who depend on you.

personally i'd rather fight for something than die for it. besides what we're told of martyrdom, it's not particularly effective.

I would never expect anyone to sacrifice anything for me. Would I hope that if the time comes they would? Yes. But I never expect them too.

Burning building debate? That is really something I cannot decide before hand. It really depends on circumstances. Who is the weakest, who needs the most help, and who am I able to help more.

And finances. That is a tough one. Ultimately it comes down to WHY they were losing their job, and what that person's needs are. If it is a layoff and they have children and I don't, then yes I would probably offer that I leave instead of them. If I had children and they didn't probably not because I still have responsibilities to my family. If they were fired because they failed at doing their job, then probably not, as I believe that people need to help themselves, before they can expect others to help them.

Ultimately, yes fight before dieing, but if you have to die for someone, then so be it. I do not really fear death, especially if I am taking the place of another. As a Christian, I know what comes after death, and I do not view it as something to be feared, but something to be embraced once my time has come. I try (key word try) to live my life everyday so that if I died tomorrow, I would have no regrets about my time here on earth.

[leadchipmunk]

Smedly, I have a lot to say about your post, but I'm going to keep simple and cut to the end (from her last FB message and on).

Did you actually forgive her? Or are you trying to lie to yourself that you did? I see that you still love her, but is that love masking the hate you may still carry?

If the answer is in all honesty that you have forgiven her, then and only then should you tell her that you have. If there is any doubt in your mind, then I would suggest not replying. It could just lead into a spiral of self-hate and projected hatred, and neither you nor she deserve it.

As for not feeling comfortable dating anyone, that is probably for the best. I've dated others while still having feelings for someone, and all it ends up being is projection. You have only been without dating this girl for a little over a year (if my math is correct), and part of that included "talking" with her until she decided to date someone else. Give yourself some more time to get over her before venturing out for someone else. I would even suggest not even thinking of looking for anyone else for at least a 1:1 ratio of time together (including the time talking over Summer) to time single. But if relationship potential just happens to come across and she takes away any thoughts/dreams of the ex, don't avoid it on principal.

[Neit]

@Smedly like jcannon I would forgive the girl Hate is too powerful a feeling to have it will wear you down more then anything and do more damage to you . I would be friends with this Girl but at the same time i would also just move on as she seems to just be playing with you. Life is too short to hate live it and enjoy it , if it was me i would make friends with her again and try and keep it that way if she decides to push it passed that then you know she still likes you. But try to enjoy your life and not get hung up on one thing .

[Guest Snake McClain]

In my mind's eye, I saw you standing in front of the mugger, and you say "Snake smash!" and this happens.

They aren't dead, we are just in hiding. The ones who haven't hid have changed.

That makes me feel AWESOME! Did you hear that guys? ChipMunk said I'm like the HULK! WOOOO!

*proceeds to go read craigslist post*

[161803398874989]

I think that life is too short to not be on good terms with people.

I disagree. Life's too short to be on good terms with everyone.

[bigm141414]

I disagree. Life's too short to be on good terms with everyone.

I'll second this notion. There are too many other people out there that you can meet and be on good terms with. Why waste time trying to be nice to irritating people?

[Jcannon98188]

What does being upset at someone do for you? Nothing but cause you to be angry all the time. You don't have to be friends with everyone, but harboring ill feelings towards other people is simply a waste of time. If someone is irritating, or if you cannot get along with them, then simply let it go, and do not interact with that person.

[161803398874989]

What does being upset at someone do for you? Nothing but cause you to be angry all the time. You don't have to be friends with everyone, but harboring ill feelings towards other people is simply a waste of time. If someone is irritating, or if you cannot get along with them, then simply let it go, and do not interact with that person.

Ah, but we're talking in different directions here. You are talking from 1st person: you are upset with someone else. I (and I would bigm does too) consider it from 3rd person: someone else is upset with you.

As for the first notion, that is a waste of time. If I'm upset with someone, I tell them to go fuck themselves and then cut them out. Then I stop worrying about it because I won't be seeing that person anytime soon. Maybe not the most psychologically sound way of dealing with things, but then again, I could give less of a shit about psychology. If it makes me feel good (both short and long term), it's good.

[aj_rock]

The more and more I think about it, the more I realize we are ALL still coming at our relationships as men vs women, regardless of equality or feminism or such.

Let's stop trying to apply general population statistics to individuals in our lives. They deserve to be seen as the people they are, not as the dangley-ness or lack thereof between their legs.

I mean, we're all trying to take these generalized statements and apply them to our own relationships where they might not necessarily apply. So what you have fallen into or out of stereotypical roles... who really gives a flying f***? If you feel like an INDIVIDUAL is treating you as an INDIVIDUAL justly or unfairly or stereotypically, you address it as it comes. Not by trying to frame it in terms of female power or male priviledge.

aj out.

[Jcannon98188]

The more and more I think about it, the more I realize we are ALL still coming at our relationships as men vs women, regardless of equality or feminism or such.

Let's stop trying to apply general population statistics to individuals in our lives. They deserve to be seen as the people they are, not as the dangley-ness or lack thereof between their legs.

I mean, we're all trying to take these generalized statements and apply them to our own relationships where they might not necessarily apply. So what you have fallen into or out of stereotypical roles... who really gives a flying f***? If you feel like an INDIVIDUAL is treating you as an INDIVIDUAL justly or unfairly or stereotypically, you address it as it comes. Not by trying to frame it in terms of female power or male priviledge.

aj out.

Treating people as equals? Yeah. Right. What's next? Allow women rights? PFttttt. People these days

</troll>

[smedly]

I think that life is too short to not be on good terms with people. You obviously care about this girl. I guess I'll give the same advice I gave myself when it came to a girl that I liked (which I posted about a few posts back).

(And this advice came through a monologue to myself, so I am going to monolog here )

Life is too short to hold a grudge. And life is definitely too short to give up on those whom you love and care for. I am a man, and men don't give up. EVER. If something is absent in their lives, they FIGHT for it. Giving up is for the weak. The only person that I have control over is myself, and nothing I do can change how she feels about me, but I swear, wether this friendship works out or not will NOT be because of ME or something that I did. I will fight for this to work, till the very end, and if it fails, it will be because she decided it was not worth it. Swallow your pride, and make things right.

Anyways, that was the verbal abuse I gave myself the other day:P I feel like (slightly modified) this applies to your problem as well smedly. You like this girl, now decide if she is worth fighting for. And if she is, never give up. Even if you never date her again, even if you are only going to be friends, do not let her go. And if she is not worth fighting for, then be a Man, and don't fake it.

I agree with this especially about holding a grudge. I think it just took more time than I thought for me to get over it. One way or another I'm sure I will be posting an update on how this turns out. Grab some popcorn.

Smedly, I have a lot to say about your post, but I'm going to keep simple and cut to the end (from her last FB message and on).

Did you actually forgive her? Or are you trying to lie to yourself that you did? I see that you still love her, but is that love masking the hate you may still carry?

If the answer is in all honesty that you have forgiven her, then and only then should you tell her that you have. If there is any doubt in your mind, then I would suggest not replying. It could just lead into a spiral of self-hate and projected hatred, and neither you nor she deserve it.

As for not feeling comfortable dating anyone, that is probably for the best. I've dated others while still having feelings for someone, and all it ends up being is projection. You have only been without dating this girl for a little over a year (if my math is correct), and part of that included "talking" with her until she decided to date someone else. Give yourself some more time to get over her before venturing out for someone else. I would even suggest not even thinking of looking for anyone else for at least a 1:1 ratio of time together (including the time talking over Summer) to time single. But if relationship potential just happens to come across and she takes away any thoughts/dreams of the ex, don't avoid it on principal.

I feel like I have truly forgiven her and don't hold anything against her anymore. One way or another I want to close this chapter of my life and whether it ends here or is continued on to the next chapter is still to be determined but I want it settled before I move on. Again time will tell and I will be sure to let you know what happens.

A note on the manliness front. So far this summer I have learned to cook (somewhat), weld, tow a trailer, drive a tractor, pour concrete, use a chainsaw properly and various other skills thanks to my summer job with the BLM! Feeling manlier by the day!

[azsf]

we are ALL still coming at our relationships as men vs women

well this is the men only board, that kinda sets the tone right there don't you think? there's no individuals only board, that wouldn't be very fun at all

[wildross]

A note on the manliness front. So far this summer I have learned to cook (somewhat), weld, tow a trailer, drive a tractor, pour concrete, use a chainsaw properly and various other skills thanks to my summer job with the BLM! Feeling manlier by the day!

Awesome!! Great work.

[Guest Snake McClain]

The more and more I think about it, the more I realize we are ALL still coming at our relationships as men vs women, regardless of equality or feminism or such.

Let's stop trying to apply general population statistics to individuals in our lives. They deserve to be seen as the people they are, not as the dangley-ness or lack thereof between their legs.

I mean, we're all trying to take these generalized statements and apply them to our own relationships where they might not necessarily apply. So what you have fallen into or out of stereotypical roles... who really gives a flying f***? If you feel like an INDIVIDUAL is treating you as an INDIVIDUAL justly or unfairly or stereotypically, you address it as it comes. Not by trying to frame it in terms of female power or male priviledge.

aj out.

I have to agree with the ROCK here. i used to see it as an "us vs them" scenario. now i see it as we are just people. we each have reasons we see or feel a certain way. let's just enjoy those we enjoy being with and stay away from those we don't.

[161803398874989]

On the subject of manliness, I'm currently on somewhat of a dragon hunting spree in Skyrim. That counts, right?

[Guest Snake McClain]

On the subject of manliness, I'm currently on somewhat of a dragon hunting spree in Skyrim. That counts, right?

i literally just started playing this game 3 days ago.

Manly indeed.

[smedly]

On the subject of manliness, I'm currently on somewhat of a dragon hunting spree in Skyrim. That counts, right?

HUNT DRAGONS THEY SAID. IT WILL BE FUN THEY SAID

[Jcannon98188]

You want to feel like a man while playing that? Play as a Khajit Hand-To-Hand fighter with the gloves of +7 hand to hand or whatever. Nothing is more satisfying than punching a dragon out cold.

[Guest Snake McClain]

HUNT DRAGONS THEY SAID. IT WILL BE FUN THEY SAID

WHAT THE???

You want to feel like a man while playing that? Play as a Khajit Hand-To-Hand fighter with the gloves of +7 hand to hand or whatever. Nothing is more satisfying than punching a dragon out cold.

I thought about making a khajit character and turning him into a vampire. that way he wouldn't need weapons. just go in and slaughter everything by hand. i am thinking of restarting for this reason. i'm just upset there is no "unarmed" category at all in skyrim.