Friendzones, Nice Guys, Geek Girls, Nerdy Romance Stuff

[DustMite]

I thought it might be nice to have a separate thread for the articles that were coming up elsewhere. I didn't want to put it in the men or women's guild and exclude anyone.

Nice guys: http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html

(Originally posted by Arashi )

and http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/08/mr-nice-guy/

Vlogbrother on being friendzoned: http://youtu.be/NSG97zCOlyo

So... Cooties. Discuss?

[WizardTrip]

Awe....and the Men's Guild has had it's first spin-off topic outside the guild. Good stuff.

Just to restate some of what I said in the other thread:

I've been the Nice Guy on too many occasions. I found that being a jerk is not the answer, but I did realize a long time ago that the ladies aren't just going to cave because I cater to them either. For most nerds, its a confidence issue that holds them (us) back. For me, my confidence around women I know...through the roof!! Around women I don't know, but who know my friends.....pretty solid. Around women I want to meet or approach? This has been the problem. Thanks to becoming more fit and looking better (and therefore thinking better of myself), this is becoming less of an issue. I guess, the point I'm getting at is what Dr Nerdlove has said, and I've started to notice, its not necessarily (although sometimes) the jerks women want, but its the confidence that is attractive.

Here's another to add to the mix:

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2012/03/women-like-assholes/

EDIT 1: Oh, and a couple more for some friend zone stuff:

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/06/friend-zone-myth/

http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/07/avoid-friend-zone/all/1/

EDIT 2: Damn! Just finished reading the DivaLion one, and I need a drink....or something! I do have some comments, but need to come back on that. Whew.....I'm tired after that read.

[AKLulu]

Personally, I've always been a sucker for nice guys. My problem is that those same guys are rarely after me. I've yet to figure out what it takes for Lulu to find a decent man AND hang onto him, not ending up long distance would probably help, but I've got time.

[Guest Gemeaux]

Personally, I've always been a sucker for nice guys. My problem is that those same guys are rarely after me. I've yet to figure out what it takes for Lulu to find a decent man AND hang onto him, not ending up long distance would probably help, but I've got time.

Ditto

[Arashi]

I don't really like the concept of friend zone, to be honest. I think that being afraid of ruining a friendship with an ill-fated romance is normal, but the idea that if you befriend a person, you are automatically out of the list of potential boy/girlfriends is a bit crazy. I mean, what are you supposed to be, their enemy?

I don't have much luck with geek guys - the ones I know in RL are only after the pretty princess, and I'm not really that girl. In terms of romance, I don't see a lot of difference between geek and non-geek guys. I tend to expect more from the geeks, but their actions are pretty similar to other guys'. Do you people see big differences between geeks and non-geeks?

Like I said in the other thread, I have a history of attracting creeps and often things completely unbelievable happen to me. For example, last year, during a cousin's birthday party, one of his friends asked my number and later (after midnight) called me saying that he wanted to come over. And wouldn't take no for an answer. And didn't seem to believe me when I said that:

1) I was home (there was a party in a nearby building and he could hear music. Ergo, I was at a party and therefore obligated to tell him the address so that he could meet me - because he wanted to get to know me better! Repeat ad nauseam.

2) I really wasn't finishing a report like I said I was - three times. I was playing coy; every time I said I was at home, working, and hell, it was after midnight, it was all an elaborate ploy to get him to have sex with me.

And he wasn't even drunk. Oh lord.

[AKLulu]

Yeah, I attract the creepers too. And old men. For some reason old men at bars really love me... luckily I only run into those ones in my home town and I know half the people in the bar, so they take care of me.

[Guest Gemeaux]

No , I don't see any difference between geek and non geek guys .

[Arashi]

Yeah, I attract the creepers too. And old men. For some reason old men at bars really love me... luckily I only run into those ones in my home town and I know half the people in the bar, so they take care of me.

OMG, me too! You see, I look younger than I actually am (I blame the acne), so when old men hit on me, it's twice as creepy because I realize they think they are hitting on a much younger woman. Ew.

[morethanjustamom]

OMG, me too! You see, I look younger than I actually am (I blame the acne), so when old men hit on me, it's twice as creepy because I realize they think they are hitting on a much younger woman. Ew.

I attract old men too, and I'm married! My husband thinks this is hilarious!!

[spezzy]

...just testing the waters here, but ive seen a lot of romance related threads lately.

would a love life guild be appropriate?

i dont want to end up with too many guilds... but...

[AKLulu]

...just testing the waters here, but ive seen a lot of romance related threads lately.

would a love life guild be appropriate?

i dont want to end up with too many guilds... but...

Mmm... I think we can fit whatever we want to say about love lives into the current guilds. Probably best to keep the focus on fitness, health, leveling up, etc. That's just my opinion though.

[Guest Gemeaux]

A love life one ? I don't have a love life . But I would still read it !

[Guest Gemeaux]

Call it " the velvet room "

[Guest Eduard]

For most nerds, its a confidence issue that holds them back.

THIS^. Not like I'm an expert in this stuff, although I've never been friendzoned, but what you said is entirely correct. I've seen ugly stupid poor jerks having girlfriends when I didn't, it's all about the attitude and social skills.

No , I don't see any difference between geek and non geek guys .

Because there isn't any. Geekiness isn't related to love, so why would it affect it?

...just testing the waters here, but ive seen a lot of romance related threads lately.

would a love life guild be appropriate?

i dont want to end up with too many guilds... but...

Seriousleee? You won't agree with having a bodybuilding guild - which is 145% fitness-related, but the idea of a love guild doesn't bother you? You really, REALLY upset my panda.

Mmm... I think we can fit whatever we want to say about love lives into the current guilds.

I agree. We should do this in Bikers' Guild.

[spezzy]

Seriousleee? You won't agree with having a bodybuilding guild - which is 145% fitness-related, but the idea of a love guild doesn't bother you? You really, REALLY upset my panda.

I agree. We should do this in Bikers' Guild.

Bikers now share a guild with scouts.

The relationships guild is something that has been brought up to me many times by many different people over the past 6-8 months. I'm not a fan of it, but since it keeps getting brought up I looked and there are a lot of threads about it. It is a level up your life topic, like parenting, banking, or travel.

[scarletleavy]

.

[AKLulu]

I agree. We should do this in Bikers' Guild.

As well as biking and love go together, I WAS thinking off-topic, men's and women's guilds

[ZenGwen]

Man, the Nice Guy thing is definitely a big problem. I know two really bad ones. One of them is a kid who I'm sure will grow up to be a great guy, once he's gained a bit more maturity and life experience. The other is a bitter, creepy, pushing-40 guy who hangs out with all the college geeks being creepy, and has developed from Nice Guy jerk into being actually pretty sexist about it. To the point where some of my friends use his name as a unit of misogyny. (Edited to add: Oh, also the Nice Guy who, it turns out, is basically a rape apologist and slut shamer. But hey, he's not talking about me! I'm a NICE girl! So it's totally okay! Uhhh...)

I also get frustrated with it in other ways sometimes. My first relationship lasted two years and became very serious - he actually bought a house and a car out in the burbs, waiting for me to finish college. (Protip: don't do that.) He was a very nice guy. Too nice. Boring-nice. Devoted-puppy-nice. Never-disagree-with-the-girlfriend nice. I am a dynamic person who likes to have interesting conversations. It didn't work. They went

Boyfriend: "I read this thing in the news and it is kind of interesting for this reason."

Me: "Interesting, but I disagree with your conclusion."

Boyfriend: "Oh, okay. You're probably right."

ARGH. This very shy, geeky guy was just so glad to have a girlfriend (a rather intelligent, very geeky, fairly popular girlfriend if I do say so myself) that he was just a complete pushover in absolutely everything to avoid making me upset with him. And seeing him prepare for the next 50 years of that, when I was an adventurous young person who had a lot more I wanted to do, made me break up with him. On the one hand, it was like kicking a puppy. On the other, he was trying to install me into a life in the middle english suburbs as a school teacher with a house and 2.5 kids at age 20. (And instantly made me feel better by asking if we could still have sex after we broke up.) So word to the wise: if you're an actual nice guy, that's great. But don't be that kind of desperate puppy.

Some girl will totally love him for that, someday. I hope she doesn't totally control his life. He's a good guy.

</rant>

Why can't men and women be friends without the prospect of a relationship looming ahead? I'm very much a tom-boy type girl so I've always had more male friends than female friends and I can't tell you how many times I've had friendships ruined because guys were pissed they were in the friendzone, or they tried to be more than friends and it didn't work or I wasn't interested. So frustrating.

I've had that too. It's exacerbated by the fact that I'm poly - "she's polyamorous and likes geeks, therefore she will sleep with me". Definitely not if they've got that attitude! That said, it doesn't always have to ruin the friendship, and I've had a lot more friends who were just awesome guys and didn't give me any trouble like that than the bad type. And it goes the other way too. I've been interested in my friends, and when they're not interested in me it's not the end of the world. And it changes, of course. My boyfriend, who I'm living with and love enormously, was just a friend for four years. It never would've even occurred to me to think of him any way but platonically before. For the first six months I still had occasional "whoa, I'm dating him? Really?" (Not in a bad way! Just in a surreal way.) I wish it was possible to just get rid of the friendzone concept. People are different, even from their past and future selves. Situations are all different. Relationships are all different. Need to look at all of them individually.

[Damy]

The problem is, most people have no Idea, what love - real love - actually is. They confuse love with (sexual) desire. With lust. Posession. It's built into our culture. All our cultural concepts of love derive from romantic love. "We belong together." says the song. We speak of my girl, my boyfriend, my wife. We feel justified in holding expectations about those people and we consider it perfectly reasonable. We are addicted to our needs, because no one really thinks these days. Romantic love is wild, furiously and posessive. It's thrilling - but it's not really love.

Love is not possesive. Love involves giving, not taking. It's calm and steady, it's an emotion of deep caring that asks nothing in return, it's so rare, that most people just can't imagine it. Whenever you hear that "love" is blind or can't last, is destructive, and men are this way, and women are that way - you can be sure that you are simple hearing a destcription of lust or desire or need and nothing else! Want to feel love? Than dedicate yourself to something other than yourself, something bigger. Helping friends and family. Turn the spotlight off yourself. Forget your own self-importance, your aches and paines and needs. Instead, get busy.

[Guest Eduard]

The problem is, most people have no Idea, what love - real love - actually is. They confuse love with (sexual) desire. With lust. Posession. It's built into our culture. All our cultural concepts of love derive from romantic love. "We belong together." says the song. We speak of my girl, my boyfriend, my wife. We feel justified in holding expectations about those people and we consider it perfectly reasonable. We are addicted to our needs, because no one really thinks these days. Romantic love is wild, furiously and posessive. It's thrilling - but it's not really love.

Love is not possesive. Love involves giving, not taking. It's calm and steady, it's an emotion of deep caring that asks nothing in return, it's so rare, that most people just can't imagine it. Whenever you hear that "love" is blind or can't last, is destructive, and men are this way, and women are that way - you can be sure that you are simple hearing a destcription of lust or desire or need and nothing else! Want to feel love? Than dedicate yourself to something other than yourself, something bigger. Helping friends and family. Turn the spotlight off yourself. Forget your own self-importance, your aches and paines and needs. Instead, get busy.

Well, I think there was a quote (that I don't agree with) like "Love is like quicksilver in the hand. Leave the fingers open and it stays. Clutch it, and it darts away.". <3 Although I'm pretty sure it's natural to be possesive, and it very rarely harms.

Edit: And why on Earth did I post in such a thread? *ashamed*

[Damy]

It's natural to have needs, that's true. And we would be far better off, if we would just acknowledge our needs. But we don't, we live lies and lies can be very harmful, especially in relationships. The desire to posess springs from the lovers own need - the need for approval from the beloved, for support, for sex, for status, for financial security - for something. A possesive lover is overly focused on what he's getting, not what he's giving. The lover may dignify his dependency with the name of love, but that's a lie. How can you really love someone when you are overly dependend on them for things you need? That isn't love, that's just manipulation to keep the needed stuff coming your way. We all do this to a certain degree, it's - sadly - part of our society. "one hand washes the other". Still, we have to be careful to not become selfish - especially in a relationship.

[Guest Gemeaux]

The problem is, most people have no Idea, what love - real love - actually is. They confuse love with (sexual) desire. With lust. Posession. It's built into our culture. All our cultural concepts of love derive from romantic love. "We belong together." says the song. We speak of my girl, my boyfriend, my wife. We feel justified in holding expectations about those people and we consider it perfectly reasonable. We are addicted to our needs, because no one really thinks these days. Romantic love is wild, furiously and posessive. It's thrilling - but it's not really love.

Love is not possesive. Love involves giving, not taking. It's calm and steady, it's an emotion of deep caring that asks nothing in return, it's so rare, that most people just can't imagine it. Whenever you hear that "love" is blind or can't last, is destructive, and men are this way, and women are that way - you can be sure that you are simple hearing a destcription of lust or desire or need and nothing else! Want to feel love? Than dedicate yourself to something other than yourself, something bigger. Helping friends and family. Turn the spotlight off yourself. Forget your own self-importance, your aches and paines and needs. Instead, get busy.

This

[morethanjustamom]

The problem is, most people have no Idea, what love - real love - actually is. They confuse love with (sexual) desire. With lust. Posession. It's built into our culture. All our cultural concepts of love derive from romantic love. "We belong together." says the song. We speak of my girl, my boyfriend, my wife. We feel justified in holding expectations about those people and we consider it perfectly reasonable. We are addicted to our needs, because no one really thinks these days. Romantic love is wild, furiously and posessive. It's thrilling - but it's not really love.

Love is not possesive. Love involves giving, not taking. It's calm and steady, it's an emotion of deep caring that asks nothing in return, it's so rare, that most people just can't imagine it. Whenever you hear that "love" is blind or can't last, is destructive, and men are this way, and women are that way - you can be sure that you are simple hearing a destcription of lust or desire or need and nothing else! Want to feel love? Than dedicate yourself to something other than yourself, something bigger. Helping friends and family. Turn the spotlight off yourself. Forget your own self-importance, your aches and paines and needs. Instead, get busy.

A lot of people run when the fire fizzles out, and real love is required.

When your SO has to deal with illness, grief, depression, anxiety, etc and you are left holding down the universe while they can do nothing for you, and you stay and push through and care for them, lose sleep at night, push them to get the help they need, and fight for what you've built together, even when they aren't fighting with you...that is love.

I have been on both sides of this love personally, and I've seen it in action in others' lives as well. When you finally break through all the anger, resentfulness, pride, rebelliousness and grief, there on the other side of those dark clouds lies the most beautiful, satisfying love you will ever experience.

It's the kind of love you see in old people's faces, the ones who die of broken hearts when their SO passes away. They've spent so many years giving of themselves for another person, that when the other one goes, their heart can't bear not to follow.

It's an all-encompassing love. There plenty of fire and passion to go with it, but even without all that, it's real and deep and final...and becoming more and more rare.

[bigm141414]

...just testing the waters here, but ive seen a lot of romance related threads lately.

would a love life guild be appropriate?

i dont want to end up with too many guilds... but...

I blame spring time for the increase in love related threads....

[Guest Gemeaux]

I agree ,people give up too easily these days , when the whole honey moon period is over .

Being infatuated with someone isn't the same as being in love . People are looking for perfection , and that does not exist .