What women love about men.

[humanperson832]

see here's the thing.

 

men almost always have no idea what make up looks like.

They have no idea HOW MUCH make up is anything.

And ultimately they don't have a say. 

 

It's universally so that people look better with properly applied make up.  And it's really annoying to hear constantly that ugh girls that wear all that make up.    One of my biggest pet peeves is people bitching about women going to the gym with make up on.  Step off- I work harder than anyone there and I wear loads of make up there.  And yes sometimes on purpose.  

 

No one owes me anything- pretty or ugly.  I don't  "deserve" anything.

 

But I do want to feel appreciated and I do like being admired.... just as much as I like admiring a man for his hard work and good looking appearance.   Nature is all about plummage and show- we are apparently the only species who A. focuses on the women for doing that (men- seriously- step up your showboating game) and B. we shun women who DO make an effort to look good.  or we call them names.

 

it's wack my friends.

 

Wake. 

 

MOAR SHOWBOATING

 

2013: Year of the Showboating

[Choronodon]

[OtakuJolyn]

Not accusing anyone of anything. I just wonder whether the general problem to relationships is that:

 

People are entering into relationships and valuing them based on what the other party can offer them (e.g. The person I am dating must be able to make me happy, support my lifestyle, be of equal standing in society, be rich, be handsome/beautiful, etc.)

 

As opposed to:

 

People trying  to enter into relationships and value them based on whether the other person is someone whom we are willing to love and sacrifice for (since the purest form of love is arguably selfless love). 

 

Physical attraction and shared interests are obviously necessary since those are the things that make people interested in their other half in the first place. But only at the beginning of a relationship. Beauty and interests fade; conversations run out of topics; shared experiences eventually dim; physically intimacy loses its initial sensation/passion and the dullness of taking the other's presence for granted sets in. Eventually we might not even be able to remember the name and memories of our loved one or hold his/her hand.

 

I doubt that a relationship based on what the other party can offer would last in above circumstances. By adopting that mentality, the relationship devolves into one where we love what the other has to offer and not the other. When the things desired from the other are no longer given or no longer satisfy, our "love" and relationship ends. Of course there are other external factors which cause relationships to become "complicated" and cause breakups but their effect on the relationship depends on the foundation of the relationship itself.

 

On the other hand, a relationship based on the second option would last since we have decided to love the other for the person himself/herself rather than for what they can offer us. Such a love does not make us immune to pain and suffering caused by the failings of the other, but it allows us to (eventually) see past those failings and realise that our love is for the other and not for what the other gives us.

 

 

Disclaimer: Abusive relationships are always a no no. A person who regularly/routinely hurts, threatens to hurt or makes the other feel unsafe is not in a fit state of mind/heart/soul to be in a relationship.

 

This. I totally agree with this. It's kinda an eye opener for me. Like I got hit with a cosmic-love 2x4. lol.

 

But usually everyone looks for that "other half", One who "completes them". or at least will give them some exp. and something to do for a while, then go off to the next person, and so on...

 

Currently, I am falling for a friend that I haven't seen, and have missed, for about 10 years. It's so good to see him and talk. But somehow this time, moving into a relationship, seems different.

I mean I want to become more intimate with him, and he seems to feel the same, but this time... idk... seems like I'm not ready yet. And the fact that I know this is astounding... I usually dive headfirst into relationships, and crash hard when it breaks.

I'm not ready to become intimate with this guy... not yet. we'll see what happens.

[OtakuJolyn]

MOAR SHOWBOATING

 

2013: Year of the Showboating

 

 

You know, guys don't seem to do that anymore... Wonder why...

perhaps guys showboat differently now a days

[Guest CyborgNinja]

I just wanted to stop in and say fuck pornography.

 

Real man, over and out.

[Damy]

 

[Wolfhorde]

Human communication is linear and shallow. Any concept of love that can be fully described in human language sucks and isn't worth experiencing.

 

The truth is nonverbal and infinitely complex.

 

Can not agree with this sentiment as a general claim. It's dependant on with whom you're communicating and what you are communicating about and your perspective of the whole thing. While I agree with the rest of the statement I'd be careful with going too much into that direction - because that's where you're on the track of "BUT IT'S OBVIOUS, DUH!" and that's where human relationships usually fall apart - not making things verbally clear can easily go awry.

 

that's not being bitter- that's being smart- because I'd say a good bulk of the time it's accurate.  Men are extremely visually wired.  The visual is the first cue- the getting to know them comes after. LOL

 

I'd say it'd be smarter to just evaluate individual situations, preceonceived notions can easily skew perception. Women are no less "visually wired" (at least from what I read about evolutionary psychology), just differently and less culturally reinforced. Men are more wired to assess 'superficial' criteria while women are more wired to 'read emotions/nonverbal communication'. (whether this is all conscious or not and to which degree is probably debatable)

 

First:

Gender is not important. I can't say "all men are this way" and "all women are that way" any more than I can say "all irishmen are this way (drunk?)". Generalizations don't hold up. They are good for jokes, and that's it. There are aggressive women and passive men, physical women and verbal men, carreer-orientated women and home-orientated men, and vice versa. Maybe most men differ from most woman in some statistical way, but we don't have relationships with "most men" or "most women". We have relationships with individuals.

 

Second:

Most people simply confuse love with possession. It's part of pop culture. "You're mine." My boyfriend, my wife, my child. My, my. We consider this perfectly reasonable. Why? Because all our concepts of love come from the so called "romantic love" - and romantic love is furiously and possessive. It's an emotional storm, a thrilling attraction, a deep lust, hardwired in our brains. Poeple are addicted to their needs.

Real Love? Real love isn't possessive. Real love isn't the same as need. It involves givig, not taking. The people who wonder, if they are feeling real love, never wonder if they are just sexually aroused or sad or... in need for something. Approval, support. Sex. Something, anything. Whenever you hear, that love can't last or love is destructive, you can be sure, that you are hearing a description of lust, or desire, or need. True love is something different, it's an emotion of deep caring that asks nothing (much - (we are all humans)) in return. You just want someone to be happy - your puppy, your child, your friend... your girl- or boyfriend. And if he or she feels the same, well, bingo, then you will grow together and become who you really are and not what someone expects you to be.

 

Third:

14 pages and no one said "what I love is a man with a good looking Fedora"? I'm dissapointed, girls. Really... really dissapointed

 

This so much. Humans and certain people especially have this really counterproductive habit to attempt to simplify the truly complex things and complicate the truly simple things.

 

But what if I'm honest and nice AND I kind of care about looking pretty? I don't think these have to be mutually exclusive.

 

Bingo! That's one of the most annoying influences that media ever had. False dichotomies like you're either a nerd or jock. You're either emotional or intelligent. You're either superficial and care about you look or a slob. If these were 'rules' there are sure as hell a lot of people who would break those 'rules'.

 

But I do want to feel appreciated and I do like being admired.... just as much as I like admiring a man for his hard work and good looking appearance.   Nature is all about plummage and show- we are apparently the only species who A. focuses on the women for doing that (men- seriously- step up your showboating game) and B. we shun women who DO make an effort to look good.  or we call them names.

 

Not sure I can entirely agree with that. While there's a lot of pressure on women culturally, it isn't solely on them. As much as the 'counter culture' of giving people shit for 'trying to look good' also gives men shit for doing so, the thing that differs is usually the scope and the way it happens but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I've seen/heard people make all kinds of unsubstantiated negative presumptions about people based on how they present themselves - about both males and females.

[Timmy M]

everyone gets reduced to stereotypes at some point, it ain't right and it ain't pretty but it is what it is

 

[Guest CyborgNinja]

Can not agree with this sentiment as a general claim. It's dependant on with whom you're communicating and what you are communicating about and your perspective of the whole thing. While I agree with the rest of the statement I'd be careful with going too much into that direction - because that's where you're on the track of "BUT IT'S OBVIOUS, DUH!" and that's where human relationships usually fall apart - not making things verbally clear can easily go awry.

 

Human communication IS linear by definition. We communicate using a string of words in sequence, one sequence at a time. That's linearity. Words allow only one train of thought to be pursued at once, one set of logic, when reality itself is infinitely complex and contains infinite analyzable logical relations all acting simultaneously. Until people can speak multiple monologues at once and process them simultaneously, human communication is and will remain linear, one dimensional.

 

What humans can communicate to each other is a drop in the ocean compared to what's really going on in reality.

[Wolfhorde]

Human communication IS linear by definition. We communicate using a string of words in sequence, one sequence at a time. That's linearity. Words allow only one train of thought to be pursued at once, one set of logic, when reality itself is infinitely complex and contains infinite analyzable logical relations all acting simultaneously. Until people can speak multiple monologues at once and process them simultaneously, human communication is and will remain linear, one dimensional.

 

What humans can communicate to each other is a drop in the ocean compared to what's really going on in reality.

 

Well, of course not - if we cannot even be objective or achieve objectivity how could we ever presume to present it? But that's not the point, it's about progress and still trying to do so - this is what brought forth civilizations and the progress of those. Whether human communication is necessarily linear and in what way is pretty much dependant on the given frame of reference as you just provided and proved. This is your perspective, it's logical and as valid as any other perspective.

 

I cannot concur with that definition though, especially as human communication encompasses a lot broader spectrum than just verbal communication and the latter is interconnected with other parts of the former so I wouldn't call it "one-dimensional." Especially as I cannot agree with such a simplistic definition of language as I've hinted at before - language is what we make it - constructivistic. Therefore I think it is also subject to our perception. But alas, once again - it's all perspectives.

[Guest CyborgNinja]

Well, of course not - if we cannot even be objective or achieve objectivity how could we ever presume to present it? But that's not the point, it's about progress and still trying to do so - this is what brought forth civilizations and the progress of those. Whether human communication is necessarily linear and in what way is pretty much dependant on the given frame of reference as you just provided and proved. This is your perspective, it's logical and as valid as any other perspective.

 

 

YOU CAN ONLY SAY ONE WORD AT A TIME.

LANGUAGE IS LINEAR. 

HOLY CRAP.

[Wolfhorde]

Couple of things:

1.) All caps doesn't make your point any stronger, it just makes you appear like you're throwing a temper tantrum.

2.) Repeating the premise of your sentiment doesn't make it any more convincing.

3.) Unless you have some kind of evidence based cross-referenced proof that would imply your claim is objectively valid it's just a perspective, like any other perspective. Not any more or not any less valid.

4.) If you cannot provide the aforementioned or accept that a forum is there for debates and that there are perspectives that don't align with yours, I'd suggest you take such topics elsewhere.

5.) If you want to have a proper discussion actually respond to what was written.

 

I don't agree with your perspective, I think it's reductionist and simplistic. You don't have to agree with it, you don't have to bother with it. But don't try to shove anything down my throat - the same way you don't convince people by yelling at them you won't do so by doing something akin to that.

[fengor]

I just wanted to stop in and say fuck pornography.

 

Real man, over and out.

 

no thanks, putting the tape back in is always so hard....

 

Yeah I watch porn now and then and don see it as a bad thing. So sue me.

[I-Jo]

^^

yeah- ohhhh.

 

I'm with you on that!  it has it's time and place.

[humanperson832]

For Mr. Cyborg Ninja. If human communication were limited to just words and nothing else, you'd have a point. But we all know there's waaaay more going into it: body language, voice inflection, tone, eye contact or lack thereof, touch, you can even use time to communicate a message about yourself to people. The way you dress, carry yourself... The majority of messages you send out to the world take place before you even fix your mouth to speak.

Also, using all caps sends a message before I even interpret the sequence of letters you used.

Check.

[Maris Stella]

For Mr. Cyborg Ninja. If human communication were limited to just words and nothing else, you'd have a point. But we all know there's waaaay more going into it: body language, voice inflection, tone, eye contact or lack thereof, touch, you can even use time to communicate a message about yourself to people. The way you dress, carry yourself... The majority of messages you send out to the world take place before you even fix your mouth to speak.

Also, using all caps sends a message before I even interpret the sequence of letters you used.

Check.

 

^ This.

 

Also, as soon as you pick up a conversation with someone you have ever spoken to before, you're adding in memory. Verbal progress may be linear, but you're building upon the conversations you've had in the past. Like adding a line to a drawing. Or a wall to a building. This is a huge topic that I can't even begin to do justice in a forum, but when we're talking about something as broad as "human communication," we can really talk about the sum of human oral- and written- history. Our language has a huge impact on how we think, and it is the product of thousands of years of conversations.

 

...

 

But I really jumped in here to express astonishment that so many people think men should shave or wax the fun-zone.

 

My eyes near bugged out of my head.

 

Dudes, I know I'm not alone when I say that as long as your body- and facial hair is clean, it is a-okay.

[Guest CyborgNinja]

For Mr. Cyborg Ninja. If human communication were limited to just words and nothing else, you'd have a point. But we all know there's waaaay more going into it: body language, voice inflection, tone, eye contact or lack thereof, touch, you can even use time to communicate a message about yourself to people. The way you dress, carry yourself... The majority of messages you send out to the world take place before you even fix your mouth to speak.

Also, using all caps sends a message before I even interpret the sequence of letters you used.

Check.

 

That does not change the fact that concepts - not emotions, not feelings, not intentions, but concepts - can only be communicated one at a time in a one-dimensional (linear) string of words.

 

 

I guess that's where I really lost some people, because body language, inflection etc. can only communicate things animals can express with pheromones and guttural grunts: whether they are happy or sad or angry, whether they want to fight or have sex - in other words, things I don't give a crap about.

 

I don't care whether anyone "likes" me, I care about learning and communicating true knowledge. In fact I'd almost prefer I was a bit hard to like because it would repel shallow simplistic types whose entire point of being alive is to "all get along."

 

For that reason, the nonverbals that communicate peoples' moods and their opinions of others were not really on my radar and I still don't really think they count. If it's something a pack of gerbils in a cage at the petshop can accomplish then it's nothing I feel compelled to think about too hard.

[I-Jo]

 

But I really jumped in here to express astonishment that so many people think men should shave or wax the fun-zone.

 

My eyes near bugged out of my head.

 

Dudes, I know I'm not alone when I say that as long as your body- and facial hair is clean, it is a-okay.

manscaping... no one wants to play in the amazon forest?? - baseball diamond?  definitely.  golf greens?  definitely. yeah- little trimming/maintenance make that shit happen. 

[fengor]

whats a baseball diamond?

[Sambalina]

 

... I care about learning and communicating true knowledge. 

 

I'm not sure "true knowledge" exists. True for who? When? Why? I'm honestly curious as to how you see this.

Like, math equations and stuff? Or do you mean you only like to discuss serious, weighty concepts?

Do you get to judge what's 'true knowledge' and what'd 'fake knowledge'? How do you know you're right?

 

I'm not trying to fight or argue with you here - you've got a view I haven't heard much before and I'd like to hear about it

 

And just to keep it on topic a little:

Awesome thing about men: man hugs!

[I-Jo]

 

Posted Today, 01:33 AM

whats a baseball diamond?

 

 

 

 

here...

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=baseball+diamond

[CombatBoot]

That does not change the fact that concepts - not emotions, not feelings, not intentions, but concepts - can only be communicated one at a time in a one-dimensional (linear) string of words.

 

 

I guess that's where I really lost some people, because body language, inflection etc. can only communicate things animals can express with pheromones and guttural grunts: whether they are happy or sad or angry, whether they want to fight or have sex - in other words, things I don't give a crap about.

 

I don't care whether anyone "likes" me, I care about learning and communicating true knowledge. In fact I'd almost prefer I was a bit hard to like because it would repel shallow simplistic types whose entire point of being alive is to "all get along."

 

For that reason, the nonverbals that communicate peoples' moods and their opinions of others were not really on my radar and I still don't really think they count. If it's something a pack of gerbils in a cage at the petshop can accomplish then it's nothing I feel compelled to think about too hard.

 

Body language (and other ways of non-verbal expression) can express a LOT more than just "wether they are happy or sad or angry, wether they want to fight or have sex". It can express every emotion known to man, and combinations of these forms of non-verbal expression can give whole new dimensions to communication. Try giving a crap about it, you might learn something new, and as you say, you're all about that.

 

Seriously, you're sounding like myself quite a few years ago. The difference? I was 14 back then, trying to be all dark and better than everyone else.

Drop that attitude, it will get you further in life.

 

Also, don't forget: nobody self-identifies as shallow, they might seem like it, but almost everyone will have dreams, hopes, and expectations from life. Every person, how idiotic they might seem, has a story to tell, and you might learn something from it.

 

This discussion is getting pretty far off-topic... Maybe a mod can split the off-topic talk into a separate thread? 

Furthermore, being a man, this topic is very educational 

[fengor]

looks confused. meeeh..

[I-Jo]

diamond- clean- tidy- well groomed.

 

not messy and all over the place.

 

make sense?

[fengor]

ah thanks thought it was a special form. 

 

shaved like a baseball field would proably look very funny