Removal of Men's Guild

[spezzy]

Hey everyone,

Sorry if this announcement is coming a few hours late, honestly I moved everything at 4:30 in the morning (as this is when the least people are online) and fell asleep before I could get anything written, approved, and posted.

Yes, we have decided to remove the men's guild.

The reasoning being this:

-When we decided to create the men's guild I thought it would have more of an art of manliness feel - threads about men's topics. Really, men's only topics. Testosterone, "Weight loss & Weiners", etc - things that I saw being discussed in the men's only thread. These were legit topics that are men's only. I also had the idea that maybe it would have an art of manliness feel to it - discussions on shaving, mustaches, etc.

What ended up happening is that the men's and women's guild turned into nothing more than what men and women like and dislike about each other and dating. These were nothing that couldn't be discussed in the Off Topic section of the boards, and they weren't things that were even only being discussed by the men or women - everyone was taking part.

Before the men's guild, the women's guild was 95% hormones, periods, birth control, and issues that men typically did not want to read about. As soon as the men's guild was created, the topics of discussion had a major shift. (Note: I'm not placing any blame on the men of the forums - responsibility was shared equally)

The overall complaint that we were getting was that the quality of threads on the board was going down, and that this was turning NerdFitness into NerdDating.

Now, you're going to be upset at why I've got the women's guild still up.

This has nothing to do with feminism, or the fact that I'm a woman. I'm trying to decide if we're going to keep it or not, honestly. I did, however, move all threads that are not in the topic of hormones, periods, etc - to the off topic library along with the threads from the men's guild.

Feel free to discuss below, this is not a closed thread. I would love to hear what people want - this forum and community is yours, not mine or Steve's.

I'll respond to people's discussions in other threads as I see them, but it would be nice to keep all discussion here.

Thanks

[airen123]

down with NerdDating!

[Thrillho]

I have to agree. The creation of the "Men's Guild" was a pretty swift nosedive into Facepalmland.

[bigm141414]

I have to agree. The creation of the "Men's Guild" was a pretty swift nosedive into Facepalmland.

I blame the spring time weather. But yes there were a lot of dating type topics instead of manly topics in there. I am wondering if having this pointed out to the community at large will now have a positive affect on what we men would have posted in our own forum. I can't help but wonder if things would have turned around after a while as we got the childishness out of our system. There were a few good manly topics I remember reading.

Edit: Also, spezzy get some damn sleep.

[bigm141414]

down with NerdDating!

No dating MOAR dead lifting.....

[Loren Wade]

I completely agree.

[Anivair]

To be honest (and I wanted to voice an opinion till now) I think this is a good call. I know that the knee jerk reaction to this is all about fairness and the like, but it's not about that at all. There are very few topics that are specific to men and even less that cannot go elsewhere. there are plenty of topics that are - let's be honest - sometimes awkward for some women to discuss in the open. In the women's guild at least they have something of a buffer, even if it's only perceived. Is that fair? It doesn't really matter, if it's effective.

Also men and women do have a few (not a lot, but a few) different needs when it comes to fitness, but almost everything ever written on the subject is tailored to men, so i can see why woman would want to be able to toss around those ideas in a just-girls sense.

And if men need space to talk about gender-specific male problems, then we can put them in a men-only thread somewhere. We did it for weeks and honestly that thread was entertaining to watch and participate in, moreso than the men's guild ended up being.

Usually balance and fairness are my mantra, but honestly I think this was a good call. I didn't think, this morning, that I would be saying that, but after reflection, I like it.

[Anivair]

down with NerdDating!

Well ... I want MORE nerd dating ... just maybe less of it in our forums. But please, by all means, date nerds.

[Loren Wade]

Anivair, I agree. When I started seeing the type of men's threads being posted, I was really disappointed.

[Guest Snake McClain]

I'm going to say my perspective says that yes it took a nose dive and there probably could/should have been a warning given to those of us (myself included even minorly) that if we didn't stick to men specific issues, "male bullying", "men physique inspiration" etc... then it would be taken down. Again i don't care so much but it's more for me to run around and try to find the topics i care about and now i'm forgetting about them entirely (concussions and all).

Regardless it's all good. no anger on my part just confused, but understood (if that made any sense).

[spezzy]

if we're going to do nerddating we're going to do it right

[Guest Snake McClain]

if we're going to do nerddating we're going to do it right

i literally lol'd at this. *shakes head*

[WizardTrip]

Spezzy, I fully understand what you are saying about the quality of the threads going down with the "men's and women's guild turned into nothing more than what men and women like and dislike about each other and dating", but I will also have to add that not much time was given to the new guild to sort through this "phase". Honestly, I do think that the topic of dating should be OK as guys like to get advice from other guys (especially the stereotypical nerd), but yes, the "what do we like about..." stuff got a little bit much.

As for other threads in the Men's Guild, I really felt that the thread about being bullied growing up was valid to see experiences from other men as was the topic of defense regarding family, etc. More time would have produced what you were envisioning. Our big "Men's Only" thread has talked about beards, shaving, etc; so it was just a matter of time before those topics would come up again as their own threads.

I just want to say that removing it altogether may have been rushed. The things you brought up here should have been addressed first. If things didn't change, then yank it.

[So Late So Soon]

Good call, i was starting to become pretty disinterested in the forums as a whole since the men's guild started

[spezzy]

Spezzy, I fully understand what you are saying about the quality of the threads going down with the "men's and women's guild turned into nothing more than what men and women like and dislike about each other and dating", but I will also have to add that not much time was given to the new guild to sort through this "phase". Honestly, I do think that the topic of dating should be OK as guys like to get advice from other guys (especially the stereotypical nerd), but yes, the "what do we like about..." stuff got a little bit much.

As for other threads in Men's Guild, I really felt that the thread about being bullied growing up was valid to see experiences from other men as was the topic of defense regarding family, etc. More time would have produced what you were envisioning. Our big "Men's Only" thread has talked about beards, shaving, etc; so it was just a matter of time that those topics would come up again as their own threads.

I just want to say that removing it altogether may have been rushed. The things you brought up here should have been addressed first. If things didn't change, then yank it.

Oh, I agree that dating is a valid topic - but it ended up being back and forth between the men's and women's guild, and since it was men and women discussing both, they weren't really men's only or women's only topics. The threads posted in the women's guild should have also gone in the off topic section (and thats why they were moved).

It may have been a bit rushed - but after 5-10 complaints a day for the last few days, we made the decision to yank it.

As I said above though - this is a discussion thread.

[Philociraptor]

Spezzy, I fully understand what you are saying about the quality of the threads going down with the "men's and women's guild turned into nothing more than what men and women like and dislike about each other and dating", but I will also have to add that not much time was given to the new guild to sort through this "phase". Honestly, I do think that the topic of dating should be OK as guys like to get advice from other guys (especially the stereotypical nerd), but yes, the "what do we like about..." stuff got a little bit much.

As for other threads in the Men's Guild, I really felt that the thread about being bullied growing up was valid to see experiences from other men as was the topic of defense regarding family, etc. More time would have produced what you were envisioning. Our big "Men's Only" thread has talked about beards, shaving, etc; so it was just a matter of time before those topics would come up again as their own threads.

I just want to say that removing it altogether may have been rushed. The things you brought up here should have been addressed first. If things didn't change, then yank it.

QFT. I think what we were seeing was growing pains. I was getting quite annoyed at the dating aspect of it as well. However, the few threads that were legit were quality, and a great place for man-to-man discussion; isn't that what the separation of forum sections is supposed to do? Guide discussions? For those it made sense.

Wholeheartedly feel the dating stuff was becoming attention-whore-centric. Thought I was reading MySpace pages created from middle schools. Sad the decision to remove the guild was made with no warning. Looking forward to more manly threads, within or without a Men's Guild.

[161803398874989]

I don't think you gave it enough time. The Men Only thread was filled with childish jokes about hot teachers and boobs at first, but eventually we moved onto more mature subjects. I think this is what would've happened with the Men's guild.

It got called too quick, in my opinion.

[David Romano]

I think that, with all due respect, shutting it down without any warning was not really appropriate. I would have rather the guild been given a chance to grow and you (or preferably Steve) help guide it into the right direction instead of just shutting it down with no notice. To keep the women's guild and shut down the men's smacks of favoritism, whether that was your motive or not. Men and women get bullied differently, body image issues are dramatically different, our roles in our families are different, there was the defense thread... I could go on and on.

Not giving the forum a chance to grow was a big mistake. A warning would have been more appropriate, IMO.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I agree with the decision. I still tremble about some of the things I've stumbled upon (i.e. soft cups) when clicking on women's guild topics. please keep the women's guild.

[Hermione Gainser]

I agree with the reasoning for the removal and am hopeful things will return to previous state of awesome or move in new direction of awesome. Regardless of whether or not it was pulled too quickly I would bet that Spezzy and Steve probably have some ideas brewing and/or that Spezzy can recreate a men's guild at any point should her mind change or whatever.

I am 0% interested in NF dating and the like.

[Gainsdalf the Whey]

I am 0% interested in NF dating and the like.

Only cause I'm not on the market.

[Denny]

Why wasn't it possible to lock the threads that were on the dating side, among other threads, and make a sticky about what topics should not be made? Maybe a sticky about how the Men's Guild could be corrected in style of Art of Manliness as a warning? If there are guidelines on how to behave, we would follow that. Now it feels like we didn't get a chance to remedy the situation.

I'm fine with the Mens Only Thread, however I don't think it's fair to those that did have serious discussions in the guild and was punished alongside the ones of us who went astray.

[Loren Wade]

Good call, i was starting to become pretty disinterested in the forums as a whole since the men's guild started

Me too. I pretty much ignored most of those threads cause they were just really immature.

That said, if the Men's Guild needs to mature and the maturity rate is that of a male, it's going to take way too long for it to be worth keeping around.

Here's my proposal... If people want a Men's Guild, then there needs to be guidelines of what's acceptable and what isn't. It needs to have that Art of Manliness feel as Spezzy said, otherwise it's more detrimental than good.

[Guest Snake McClain]

to be honest i'm not sure what kicked off the stuff about "what women like in men" and vice versa. all that...like i just don't get it. I was aiming for the right direction i though when i posted some of the stuff. and whoever started the "defense" thread i thought was on the right track too. I'm just sort of in the middle. i totally understand why it was brought down but feel we could have been told "hey don't do this but do this other stuff instead or else" and we would have abided. Again as i have said before I can live without it as i did just fine before but now it's a bit more for me to run around and find the stuff i liked talking about.

[spezzy]

Why wasn't it possible to lock the threads that were on the dating side, among other threads, and make a sticky about what topics should not be made? Maybe a sticky about how the Men's Guild could be corrected in style of Art of Manliness as a warning? If there are guidelines on how to behave, we would follow that. Now it feels like we didn't get a chance to remedy the situation.

I'm fine with the Mens Only Thread, however I don't think it's fair to those that did have serious discussions in the guild and was punished alongside the ones of us who went astray.

I didn't lock them, just moved them! They're still there.

hearing everyone on the warning thing.